Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why anyone gets worked up over the idea that an institution designed by men, for the benefit of men, is not magically equally good for women. Why would we expect it to be?

I'm struggling to see how modern marriage is good for men in any way? What do men get out of it? It seems very beneficial for women though. They get legal access to husband's income, which is usually higher than theirs.

You have ADHD probably - this thread specifically describes how it’s more beneficial for men, when both spouses work. Even when the wife SAH she only gets access to husbands income as long as marriage lasts. And then she’s left with years of missed earnings and no own earning capacity

Maybe he/she read the thread and doesn't agree with the unsupported and irrational arguments for why men supposedly disproportionately benefit. Some of the reasons given:

1. Women give men children that men would otherwise have to pay for. A bizarre argument that suggests (a) women don't also want the child, (b) men are all that interested in having children, (c) men cannot have offspring without marriage, and (d) men don't have to pay for children regardless of marital status.

2. Women perform more unpaid labor at home. This assumes that married women work equal amounts outside of the home, which is not true in the data. And it assumes that a lot of the labor isn't unnecessary in the eyes of most men (e.g., much of the nesting at home).

3. Women are only having an equal match if a man makes much more money. Around these parts, it is usually the case that men make more money, which means that women get a financial benefit regardless and men stand to lose more in divorce.

4. Men get "access to sex" more as a married person. That is not true among well educated and high earning men, which is most of the demographic around here. I don't think there is a single man ever who has gotten married because he wanted more sex, and if there is such a man, he is an idiot.

It is so weird that women on this board are either posting threads about how they want to figure out how to lock down some guy in marriage, or a thread about how marriage is so terrible. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here about a man trying to lock down a woman in marriage. Revealed preferences says more about women's attitudes about marriage than any of the harping in these threads.

Boom!

Anonymous wrote:Of course she has a way out: divorce and leave the children to the husband.

My friends mom did this when I was growing up. Both her children had pretty awful lives. One attempted suicide. The other had two kids and divorced; last I heard she was dating a married man, then one of her own kids died in an accident.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Because you probably suck as a dad compared to what single/working moms are doing. Sorry.

Signed,

SAHM with a cushy existence

I dated single dads with 2-3 kids who are actual, involved parents. They literally never have time for themselves or serious dating !

Right. They were better dads than the PP who thinks that moms are vastly exaggerating how hard it is to work full-time and be the primary parent.

Or maybe he's just a harder worker and not as used to complaining. Or maybe he doesn't see parenting as a hassle. Or maybe he's more efficient at accomplishing what needs to be done at work and home. Or maybe he doesn't spend a lot of time shopping for leggings and watching Tik Tok dances while "working" at his cushy middle management fed job.

Hmm, no, I think it's that he isn't as good of a dad as women who report their experience with the well-documented phenomenon of the difficulties of being a primary parent while working full-time.

“Well documented” = women who complained a lot on DCUM lol.

Google is free, you know.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/25/women-men-unpaid-child-care-pandemic-gender-equality-workforce/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-than-men-adjust-their-careers-for-family-life/

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/menenjoyfivehoursmoreleisuretimeperweekthanwomen/2018-01-09

Seriously I don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics people are doing that leads them to believe that there is not an overall gender imbalance in domestic labor in dual-income households.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Because you probably suck as a dad compared to what single/working moms are doing. Sorry.

Signed,

SAHM with a cushy existence

I dated single dads with 2-3 kids who are actual, involved parents. They literally never have time for themselves or serious dating !

Right. They were better dads than the PP who thinks that moms are vastly exaggerating how hard it is to work full-time and be the primary parent.

Or maybe he's just a harder worker and not as used to complaining. Or maybe he doesn't see parenting as a hassle. Or maybe he's more efficient at accomplishing what needs to be done at work and home. Or maybe he doesn't spend a lot of time shopping for leggings and watching Tik Tok dances while "working" at his cushy middle management fed job.

Hmm, no, I think it's that he isn't as good of a dad as women who report their experience with the well-documented phenomenon of the difficulties of being a primary parent while working full-time.

“Well documented” = women who complained a lot on DCUM lol.

Google is free, you know.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/25/women-men-unpaid-child-care-pandemic-gender-equality-workforce/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-than-men-adjust-their-careers-for-family-life/

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/menenjoyfivehoursmoreleisuretimeperweekthanwomen/2018-01-09

Seriously I don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics people are doing that leads them to believe that there is not an overall gender imbalance in domestic labor in dual-income households.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And who are these men, exactly? If you took everyone I know from elementary school to a graduate degree and/or have worked with, maybe 4 or 5% hit it big. Meaning million dollar salaries or WSJ stories, etc. The rest have had mediocre to good careers.

So let me guess, that 4 or 5% magically married DCUM posters who are in shape and run around in yoga pants?

Are you asking about men who make over half a million with SAHM? Hedge fund managers, real estate developers, tech sales, partners at law firms, built and sold own businesses etc. but these men are fine with SAHM wives their marriages last until men cheat , on average

The worst are these 200k guys with wives who also make 200k. This is when the woman is exhausted to the brink of insanity as they tend to be cheap and controlling with resources on home aide and the wives are that cheaper “second shift”

I’m a $230K woman and although a second income would be nice I wouldn’t marry anyone who made less than me. I have made a ton of career mistakes so I figure any competent guy should be out earning me by now.

Exhibit A

Sorry this bothers you. But I’m highly educated, worked hard and sacrificed a lot to get to this income. And most of my female friends make more. So I figure any intelligent hard working guy from similar background could have done the same. If he didn’t something is wrong and we are not compatible.

That is like the top 1% of US salaries. What on earth do these people do? Everybody can't be a lawyer or hedge fund manager.

No, it’s top 5% of US salaries. In DC area the number of men making 200k is much higher than 5%. It’s pretty much everyone past age 40, for example, and not a lot of money

+1. I am in another major city and in my 40s and don’t know a single household below $300k. Most of our friends are high 6-digits. It’s still not a ton with kids, taxes and inflation. DH and I bring in $1mm and after we spend half on taxes and then mortgage, school activities and child care, and college and retirement savings, we don’t have a ton left. $200k with kids is middle class in a big city.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless the husband is rich.

Women do most of the unpaid and unnoticed domestic labor in the home. They use their body to create babies and then do most of the childcare.

If the husband isn’t rich, what does he bring to the table?

OK -- one what is your alternative? and two --- some start out as rich -- many do not but get there. You have no idea who will and will not if you marry in 20s or 30s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And who are these men, exactly? If you took everyone I know from elementary school to a graduate degree and/or have worked with, maybe 4 or 5% hit it big. Meaning million dollar salaries or WSJ stories, etc. The rest have had mediocre to good careers.

So let me guess, that 4 or 5% magically married DCUM posters who are in shape and run around in yoga pants?

Are you asking about men who make over half a million with SAHM? Hedge fund managers, real estate developers, tech sales, partners at law firms, built and sold own businesses etc. but these men are fine with SAHM wives their marriages last until men cheat , on average

The worst are these 200k guys with wives who also make 200k. This is when the woman is exhausted to the brink of insanity as they tend to be cheap and controlling with resources on home aide and the wives are that cheaper “second shift”

I’m a $230K woman and although a second income would be nice I wouldn’t marry anyone who made less than me. I have made a ton of career mistakes so I figure any competent guy should be out earning me by now.

Exhibit A

Sorry this bothers you. But I’m highly educated, worked hard and sacrificed a lot to get to this income. And most of my female friends make more. So I figure any intelligent hard working guy from similar background could have done the same. If he didn’t something is wrong and we are not compatible.

That is like the top 1% of US salaries. What on earth do these people do? Everybody can't be a lawyer or hedge fund manager.

No, it’s top 5% of US salaries. In DC area the number of men making 200k is much higher than 5%. It’s pretty much everyone past age 40, for example, and not a lot of money

Anonymous wrote:Unless the husband is rich.

Women do most of the unpaid and unnoticed domestic labor in the home. They use their body to create babies and then do most of the childcare.

If the husband isn’t rich, what does he bring to the table?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Because you probably suck as a dad compared to what single/working moms are doing. Sorry.

Signed,

SAHM with a cushy existence

I dated single dads with 2-3 kids who are actual, involved parents. They literally never have time for themselves or serious dating !

Right. They were better dads than the PP who thinks that moms are vastly exaggerating how hard it is to work full-time and be the primary parent.

Or maybe he's just a harder worker and not as used to complaining. Or maybe he doesn't see parenting as a hassle. Or maybe he's more efficient at accomplishing what needs to be done at work and home. Or maybe he doesn't spend a lot of time shopping for leggings and watching Tik Tok dances while "working" at his cushy middle management fed job.

Hmm, no, I think it's that he isn't as good of a dad as women who report their experience with the well-documented phenomenon of the difficulties of being a primary parent while working full-time.

“Well documented” = women who complained a lot on DCUM lol.

Google is free, you know.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/25/women-men-unpaid-child-care-pandemic-gender-equality-workforce/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-than-men-adjust-their-careers-for-family-life/

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/menenjoyfivehoursmoreleisuretimeperweekthanwomen/2018-01-09

Seriously I don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics people are doing that leads them to believe that there is not an overall gender imbalance in domestic labor in dual-income households.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Because you probably suck as a dad compared to what single/working moms are doing. Sorry.

Signed,

SAHM with a cushy existence

I dated single dads with 2-3 kids who are actual, involved parents. They literally never have time for themselves or serious dating !

Right. They were better dads than the PP who thinks that moms are vastly exaggerating how hard it is to work full-time and be the primary parent.

Or maybe he's just a harder worker and not as used to complaining. Or maybe he doesn't see parenting as a hassle. Or maybe he's more efficient at accomplishing what needs to be done at work and home. Or maybe he doesn't spend a lot of time shopping for leggings and watching Tik Tok dances while "working" at his cushy middle management fed job.

Hmm, no, I think it's that he isn't as good of a dad as women who report their experience with the well-documented phenomenon of the difficulties of being a primary parent while working full-time.

“Well documented” = women who complained a lot on DCUM lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Because you probably suck as a dad compared to what single/working moms are doing. Sorry.

Signed,

SAHM with a cushy existence

Nope. My kids are healthy, getting straight As, doing travel sports and music, and have every need taken care of.

Actually, it’s YOU who sucks at parenting if it’s super-hard for you. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Untrue/ I was working like a dog. All day at work and until the kids went to bed. He could afford me to stay at home. I was working two jobs and he was working one at work. That is what people are talking about. I was commuting 1.5 hours each way because of his insistence his commute be 15 min. Many working women are doing first and second shifts while the man enjoys a second income but do not do household or childcare duties. Yes, then marriage absolutely sucks for the woman and is a terrible deal.

That’s pretty extreme. Why didn’t you get a new job?

Or, why didn't her husband get a new job closer to hers?
Why didn't her husband have them move?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless the husband is rich.

Women do most of the unpaid and unnoticed domestic labor in the home. They use their body to create babies and then do most of the childcare.

If the husband isn’t rich, what does he bring to the table?

It sounds as if you wrote this in 1962.

My husband and all of the other husbands I know do a lot around the house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Untrue/ I was working like a dog. All day at work and until the kids went to bed. He could afford me to stay at home. I was working two jobs and he was working one at work. That is what people are talking about. I was commuting 1.5 hours each way because of his insistence his commute be 15 min. Many working women are doing first and second shifts while the man enjoys a second income but do not do household or childcare duties. Yes, then marriage absolutely sucks for the woman and is a terrible deal.

That’s pretty extreme. Why didn’t you get a new job?