Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve lived downtown in Shaw for 17 years. Our kids, 12 and 9, know how to take the city bus to and from school. The problem is the people on the bus—crazy, rude, high/drunk, potentially dangerous. I went to school in nyc and spent my whole adulthood in cities. I wish we could make public transportation safe for all— families, tourists, kids, the elderly. What would it take? We have 1 car, plug in electric, but I’d rather send my kids on a city bus… we like to ride bikes through the city but frankly it is dangerous. We only did that during the early days of the pandemic when the roads were clear. More and more people will be killed riding bikes as long as they have to share the roads with cars. I won’t let my kids ride their bikes to school.

Nicer bus transit was a goal of the Circulator system, but that was called elitist and lost favor. We can't have nice things

Many of the bus routes are fine and I feel safe on them - but there are a few like the X2 that are dicey. WMATA should put Metro Police on some of the more notorious lines like the X2.

Anonymous wrote:We’ve lived downtown in Shaw for 17 years. Our kids, 12 and 9, know how to take the city bus to and from school. The problem is the people on the bus—crazy, rude, high/drunk, potentially dangerous. I went to school in nyc and spent my whole adulthood in cities. I wish we could make public transportation safe for all— families, tourists, kids, the elderly. What would it take? We have 1 car, plug in electric, but I’d rather send my kids on a city bus… we like to ride bikes through the city but frankly it is dangerous. We only did that during the early days of the pandemic when the roads were clear. More and more people will be killed riding bikes as long as they have to share the roads with cars. I won’t let my kids ride their bikes to school.

Nicer bus transit was a goal of the Circulator system, but that was called elitist and lost favor. We can't have nice things

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

Paris is doing it big time now.

The other PP said “decades”. Which is false.

It's not false. There were vehicle restrictions in some parts of German cities all the way back in the 1980s when I lived there. That's decades. London and other cities began putting emissions-specific restrictions in place beginning in the early 2000s. Either way, dozens and dozens of European cities have definitely had various types of vehicle restrictions in place for 5-10 or more years or more and there's no "cratering" trend in those cities as the pp claimed would happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

It is not at all false. I lived in Europe for 10 years. Many countries and cities have had various types of urban vehicle access restrictions for years. Berlin, Brussels, Paris, London etc. Here is a map that captures some of the types of restrictions. https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/userhome/map

This is an example of making false equivalence. Characteristically a lot of cities in Europe have separate historic city center and business districts. Restricting vehicle access to historic city centers is not the same as restricting access to the newer, glass central business districts.

In the places I am aware of where there are access restrictions in CBDs, it is typically just one block of a street that abuts a central plaza where there is a high density of buses and pedestrians. Not widespread road (or even lane) closures.

What cities like Paris and Barcelona are doing right now is a 2 year old experiment that has not been fully tested in “normal”, non-pandemic situation and nobody knows how it’s going to turn out. But it’s also important to understand that what they are doing is very different to what DC is doing. These cities are not trying to restrict access to their CBDs. They are trying to reduce vehicles in mixed use neighborhoods. This is not what DC is doing.

If DC wanted to follow Barcelona’s lead with Eixample they would close roads around DuPont Circle. Barcelona isn’t closing or reducing lanes around their business district, Les Corts. DC instead is doing the exact opposite. Closing lanes downtown while not doing anything in the mixed use neighborhoods.

So this is why the details matter and just screaming “Europe” is not as impressive as you think.

Pp above— I’d make public transportation free for all city residents and invest in security on all buses and trains. A massive expense, yes, but it would create jobs and discourage gas guzzling cars clogging our streets and our air. I’d then make several arteries only for bikes or pedestrians and charge a car tax on commuters. Buses should run on clean energy.

We’ve lived downtown in Shaw for 17 years. Our kids, 12 and 9, know how to take the city bus to and from school. The problem is the people on the bus—crazy, rude, high/drunk, potentially dangerous. I went to school in nyc and spent my whole adulthood in cities. I wish we could make public transportation safe for all— families, tourists, kids, the elderly. What would it take? We have 1 car, plug in electric, but I’d rather send my kids on a city bus… we like to ride bikes through the city but frankly it is dangerous. We only did that during the early days of the pandemic when the roads were clear. More and more people will be killed riding bikes as long as they have to share the roads with cars. I won’t let my kids ride their bikes to school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

Paris is doing it big time now.

The other PP said “decades”. Which is false.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

Yeah this is only a very recent phenomenon in Europe and there are only a handful of cities that have tried it. And honestly, because of Europe's superior public and mass transport systems, there are many cities that will never do it because they just don't have to -- they have the infrastructure and public buy-in for car alternatives, so they can permit cars wherever, and they still won't be the preferred means of transportation for most people.

Thinking about Ghent, where I spent a summer a few years back. Everyone there commutes by bike and those who don't use the buses. The end. I knew people with cars but they were used to drive to the countryside on weekends. Brussels is a short 14 euro train ride away and from there you can get to any major city in Europe, either by train or air. There is just no need to be car dependent and people are so accustomed to bikes that it feels extremely normal and easy, not daunting or scary like it is for many Americans. Me included! I was very intimidated by bike culture there and even though I like riding my bike, I walked and took the bus around town because I felt overwhelmed by the bike commuters. If I lived there long term I'd acclimate though. Three months was not enough time to feel comfortable.

There are at least 200 European cities that have urban vehicle access restrictions. That's more than a handful. And they aren't all that recent, the city I lived in in Germany was doing it all the way back in the 1980s as did many others.

Anyone who talks about “Europe” in this sort of monolithic way has no idea what they are talking about. But you are also exaggerating and trying to draw comparisons that are inappropriate. It should not be a shock to anyone that a city with a 600 year old hundred historic city center with narrow, historic cobble stone streets with no sidewalks that were designed for people pushing carts and the occasional horse would be restricted to private cars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

Paris is doing it big time now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

It is not at all false. I lived in Europe for 10 years. Many countries and cities have had various types of urban vehicle access restrictions for years. Berlin, Brussels, Paris, London etc. Here is a map that captures some of the types of restrictions. https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/userhome/map

I was in Italy for a few weeks a few months before the pandemic and yes, they strongly discourage vehicles and had many restrictions in place even pre-pandemic. In talking to drivers, there are weekday hour restrictions with exeptions for permitted vehicles and certain classes of vehicles like deliveries. Mass transit is excellent (used the Frecciarossa to hop between Rome and Tuscany) and between Uber and the excellent taxi apps had absolutely no problem getting around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

Yeah this is only a very recent phenomenon in Europe and there are only a handful of cities that have tried it. And honestly, because of Europe's superior public and mass transport systems, there are many cities that will never do it because they just don't have to -- they have the infrastructure and public buy-in for car alternatives, so they can permit cars wherever, and they still won't be the preferred means of transportation for most people.

Thinking about Ghent, where I spent a summer a few years back. Everyone there commutes by bike and those who don't use the buses. The end. I knew people with cars but they were used to drive to the countryside on weekends. Brussels is a short 14 euro train ride away and from there you can get to any major city in Europe, either by train or air. There is just no need to be car dependent and people are so accustomed to bikes that it feels extremely normal and easy, not daunting or scary like it is for many Americans. Me included! I was very intimidated by bike culture there and even though I like riding my bike, I walked and took the bus around town because I felt overwhelmed by the bike commuters. If I lived there long term I'd acclimate though. Three months was not enough time to feel comfortable.

The US needs more mass transit options as well. And we need to get away from the suburbia model of building inefficient cookie cutter subdivisions that don't have sidewalks and you couldn't even walk to the nearest store, restaurant, school or amenity if you wanted to - and where many of those are clustered in ugly strip malls. NoVA and MD have tons of that. Instead we need more town-center type development and more pedestrian, bicycle and mass transit friendly development in the suburbs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

Yeah this is only a very recent phenomenon in Europe and there are only a handful of cities that have tried it. And honestly, because of Europe's superior public and mass transport systems, there are many cities that will never do it because they just don't have to -- they have the infrastructure and public buy-in for car alternatives, so they can permit cars wherever, and they still won't be the preferred means of transportation for most people.

Thinking about Ghent, where I spent a summer a few years back. Everyone there commutes by bike and those who don't use the buses. The end. I knew people with cars but they were used to drive to the countryside on weekends. Brussels is a short 14 euro train ride away and from there you can get to any major city in Europe, either by train or air. There is just no need to be car dependent and people are so accustomed to bikes that it feels extremely normal and easy, not daunting or scary like it is for many Americans. Me included! I was very intimidated by bike culture there and even though I like riding my bike, I walked and took the bus around town because I felt overwhelmed by the bike commuters. If I lived there long term I'd acclimate though. Three months was not enough time to feel comfortable.

There are at least 200 European cities that have urban vehicle access restrictions. That's more than a handful. And they aren't all that recent, the city I lived in in Germany was doing it all the way back in the 1980s as did many others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

It is not at all false. I lived in Europe for 10 years. Many countries and cities have had various types of urban vehicle access restrictions for years. Berlin, Brussels, Paris, London etc. Here is a map that captures some of the types of restrictions. https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/userhome/map

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.

Yeah this is only a very recent phenomenon in Europe and there are only a handful of cities that have tried it. And honestly, because of Europe's superior public and mass transport systems, there are many cities that will never do it because they just don't have to -- they have the infrastructure and public buy-in for car alternatives, so they can permit cars wherever, and they still won't be the preferred means of transportation for most people.

Thinking about Ghent, where I spent a summer a few years back. Everyone there commutes by bike and those who don't use the buses. The end. I knew people with cars but they were used to drive to the countryside on weekends. Brussels is a short 14 euro train ride away and from there you can get to any major city in Europe, either by train or air. There is just no need to be car dependent and people are so accustomed to bikes that it feels extremely normal and easy, not daunting or scary like it is for many Americans. Me included! I was very intimidated by bike culture there and even though I like riding my bike, I walked and took the bus around town because I felt overwhelmed by the bike commuters. If I lived there long term I'd acclimate though. Three months was not enough time to feel comfortable.

Anonymous wrote:There are many European cities where you cannot bring your personal car into the downtown area or have limited schedules where it's allowed, as measures to reduce rush hour congestion, improve safety, improve air quality and promote bicycling, pedestrian and mass transit. They've been doing it for decades. And they are not "cratering" as a result.

This is false.