Anonymous
01/13/2022 20:35
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a brown URM I would never choose a LAC or SLACK because they tend to lack racial diversity. Public flagships have more people that look like me.
For the more rural LACs that can be true, but many LACs have a strong diversity of students, especially those that are more selective. You should check out their Common Data Sets to see the numbers.
I have yet to find one. Would love to be pointed in that direction. I suspect we may have different ideas of "strong diversity."
Vassar, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Haverford, Macalester, Scripps, Pitzer, Occidental (Obama's first college), Reed, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, and every women's college I've looked at all have over 40% students of color.
"students of color" don't mean much. Not PP you are responding to but I avoid SLACS for same reason. I'm black. Looking for black people. Not students of color. Vasser for example has 4% black people. Wesleyan has 3.2% Etc.....No thanks!
Then you need look no further than a HBCU.
I did undergrad at an HBCU and did my masters at Stanford for electrical engineering. My son is now looking at HBCUs and diverse non-HBCUs. There are schools that bring in more than 3 and 4% black undergrad students. They're not SLACS.
Swarthmore is 7.6% Black or African American. VT is 4.8% and UVA is 6.8%. You shouldn't generalize.
Not the person you're talking to but VT is 9% this year.
VT got to 9% (actually 8.7%) by combining black with multi-race, so that is changing the measuring stick. Actual is 6.8%. Still it is an improvement.
You can't live in a country that claims the one drop rule and then be mad when the one drop rule is applied. Cops don't ask those multi-race people if they're mullti-race before they shoot them unarmed.
Then use your one drop rule for all schools or whatever it is you are advocating for, but do it the same way for all schools rather than one way for one (VT) and another way for the others.
Pretty much every college does in their counts which is why 3-4% is worse than it even looks for someone interested in a decent black population.
OK, let's compare VT (entering class of 2025) to Virginia demographics:
Black: Virginia 19.2%; VT 6.8%
Mixed Race: Virginia 3.8%; VT 1.9%
Black + Mixed Race: Virginia 23%; VT 8.7%
Still hire than a SLAC and this was about why some URM choose large pu lic over SLAC and VT is just one school. A URM has a better chance of finding people who look like then at a large flagship than a SLAC
^ "higher." Soery!
But VT is not higher than the SLAC cited, Swarthmore. It also isn't higher than many other SLACs. Your premise is wrong.
Swathmore is 7% and VT is 9%.
Not even close. Most recent common data sets:
Black or African American, non-Hispanic: Swarthmore 8.1%; VT 4.9%
Two or more races, non-Hispanic: Swarthmore 8.9%; VT 5.0%
Hispanic/Latino: Swarthmore 13.1%; VT 7.7%
Asian, non-Hispanic: Swarthmore 17.8%; VT 11.1%
White, non-Hispanic: VT 62.7%; Swarthmore 33.0%
https://aie.vt.edu/strategic-analysis/common-data-set.html
https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/Swarthmore%20College%20CDS%202020-2021.pdf
Anonymous
01/13/2022 16:11
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a brown URM I would never choose a LAC or SLACK because they tend to lack racial diversity. Public flagships have more people that look like me.
For the more rural LACs that can be true, but many LACs have a strong diversity of students, especially those that are more selective. You should check out their Common Data Sets to see the numbers.
I have yet to find one. Would love to be pointed in that direction. I suspect we may have different ideas of "strong diversity."
Vassar, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Haverford, Macalester, Scripps, Pitzer, Occidental (Obama's first college), Reed, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, and every women's college I've looked at all have over 40% students of color.
"students of color" don't mean much. Not PP you are responding to but I avoid SLACS for same reason. I'm black. Looking for black people. Not students of color. Vasser for example has 4% black people. Wesleyan has 3.2% Etc.....No thanks!
Then you need look no further than a HBCU.
I did undergrad at an HBCU and did my masters at Stanford for electrical engineering. My son is now looking at HBCUs and diverse non-HBCUs. There are schools that bring in more than 3 and 4% black undergrad students. They're not SLACS.
Swarthmore is 7.6% Black or African American. VT is 4.8% and UVA is 6.8%. You shouldn't generalize.
Not the person you're talking to but VT is 9% this year.
VT got to 9% (actually 8.7%) by combining black with multi-race, so that is changing the measuring stick. Actual is 6.8%. Still it is an improvement.
You can't live in a country that claims the one drop rule and then be mad when the one drop rule is applied. Cops don't ask those multi-race people if they're mullti-race before they shoot them unarmed.
Then use your one drop rule for all schools or whatever it is you are advocating for, but do it the same way for all schools rather than one way for one (VT) and another way for the others.
Pretty much every college does in their counts which is why 3-4% is worse than it even looks for someone interested in a decent black population.
OK, let's compare VT (entering class of 2025) to Virginia demographics:
Black: Virginia 19.2%; VT 6.8%
Mixed Race: Virginia 3.8%; VT 1.9%
Black + Mixed Race: Virginia 23%; VT 8.7%
Still hire than a SLAC and this was about why some URM choose large pu lic over SLAC and VT is just one school. A URM has a better chance of finding people who look like then at a large flagship than a SLAC
^ "higher." Soery!
But VT is not higher than the SLAC cited, Swarthmore. It also isn't higher than many other SLACs. Your premise is wrong.
Swathmore is 7% and VT is 9%.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 16:07
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Isn't that outweighed by the fact that the big schools are also more likely to not have enough slots for everyone interested to enroll in any given semester?
" Need a 3.0 or better in Organic Chem 210 and didn’t get it or the class was full Fall term and you couldn’t register? See you next Fall. But, but I need that class as a prerequisite for my Bio that is only offered next Fall. Darn. Better switch majors then. Whereas a big school will offer the same class again in the Spring term."
At the smaller school, you're probably not going to run into the problem of not being able to register as in PP's example. And you probably have a better chance of hitting that 3.0 in a smaller setting with closer proximity to the professor.
" Need a 3.0 or better in Organic Chem 210 and didn’t get it or the class was full Fall term and you couldn’t register? See you next Fall. But, but I need that class as a prerequisite for my Bio that is only offered next Fall. Darn. Better switch majors then. Whereas a big school will offer the same class again in the Spring term."
At the smaller school, you're probably not going to run into the problem of not being able to register as in PP's example. And you probably have a better chance of hitting that 3.0 in a smaller setting with closer proximity to the professor.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 09:47
Subject: Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Kids can be happy and successful in a variety of environments. With a few exceptions.
The biggest advantage of a big school for every student is the ability to continually progress to a degree with a wide variety of majors. That is a huge advantage.
If your kid attends a large school - say for example, a Big10 sized school (30,000 - 50,000), they can explore a very wide variety of majors particularly as a freshman/sophomore, take and retake classes if necessary, and keep moving forward. You cannot do that at a small school. Simply put - needed classes are not offered every term at small schools.
This is a very big deal when you start looking at required prerequisite classes to keep advancing. Need a 3.0 or better in Organic Chem 210 and didn’t get it or the class was full Fall term and you couldn’t register? See you next Fall. But, but I need that class as a prerequisite for my Bio that is only offered next Fall. Darn. Better switch majors then. Whereas a big school will offer the same class again in the Spring term.
The flexibility of big schools is a great benefit for students.
The biggest advantage of a big school for every student is the ability to continually progress to a degree with a wide variety of majors. That is a huge advantage.
If your kid attends a large school - say for example, a Big10 sized school (30,000 - 50,000), they can explore a very wide variety of majors particularly as a freshman/sophomore, take and retake classes if necessary, and keep moving forward. You cannot do that at a small school. Simply put - needed classes are not offered every term at small schools.
This is a very big deal when you start looking at required prerequisite classes to keep advancing. Need a 3.0 or better in Organic Chem 210 and didn’t get it or the class was full Fall term and you couldn’t register? See you next Fall. But, but I need that class as a prerequisite for my Bio that is only offered next Fall. Darn. Better switch majors then. Whereas a big school will offer the same class again in the Spring term.
The flexibility of big schools is a great benefit for students.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 09:20
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My DH and I both went to large public universities, and we had great experiences there.
Fast forward -we sent our kids to private school for K-12. When it came time to apply to colleges, both of them were dead-set against going to a small private college. Their college admissions counselors (both at school and the one we retained out of school) suggested tons of small private colleges to consider, but both of my kids were not interested.
To me, the small college experience seems like it has advantages. So we were surprised when, despite the many people encouraging them to apply to small colleges, neither of our kids was interested in a small college. (Maybe if they had been in public schools for K-12, they would have made different choices.)
+1
One of our big3 kids (1550/3.8) only applied to big schools (Cal, UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin). Wanted a different experience and all that a big research university has to offer.
At our DCs' school, according to college counselors, LAC interest has waned a bit (not for super selectives) while interest in mid-size schools, especially adjacent to or in cities, has been on the rise. Apps to big schools has remained fairly constant. College office head noted that this pivot has really been within last 3-5 years, more sharply in last 3.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 08:56
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:My DH and I both went to large public universities, and we had great experiences there.
Fast forward -we sent our kids to private school for K-12. When it came time to apply to colleges, both of them were dead-set against going to a small private college. Their college admissions counselors (both at school and the one we retained out of school) suggested tons of small private colleges to consider, but both of my kids were not interested.
To me, the small college experience seems like it has advantages. So we were surprised when, despite the many people encouraging them to apply to small colleges, neither of our kids was interested in a small college. (Maybe if they had been in public schools for K-12, they would have made different choices.)
+1
One of our big3 kids (1550/3.8) only applied to big schools (Cal, UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin). Wanted a different experience and all that a big research university has to offer.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 08:47
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
My DH and I both went to large public universities, and we had great experiences there.
Fast forward -we sent our kids to private school for K-12. When it came time to apply to colleges, both of them were dead-set against going to a small private college. Their college admissions counselors (both at school and the one we retained out of school) suggested tons of small private colleges to consider, but both of my kids were not interested.
To me, the small college experience seems like it has advantages. So we were surprised when, despite the many people encouraging them to apply to small colleges, neither of our kids was interested in a small college. (Maybe if they had been in public schools for K-12, they would have made different choices.)
Fast forward -we sent our kids to private school for K-12. When it came time to apply to colleges, both of them were dead-set against going to a small private college. Their college admissions counselors (both at school and the one we retained out of school) suggested tons of small private colleges to consider, but both of my kids were not interested.
To me, the small college experience seems like it has advantages. So we were surprised when, despite the many people encouraging them to apply to small colleges, neither of our kids was interested in a small college. (Maybe if they had been in public schools for K-12, they would have made different choices.)
Anonymous
01/12/2022 20:48
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a brown URM I would never choose a LAC or SLACK because they tend to lack racial diversity. Public flagships have more people that look like me.
For the more rural LACs that can be true, but many LACs have a strong diversity of students, especially those that are more selective. You should check out their Common Data Sets to see the numbers.
I have yet to find one. Would love to be pointed in that direction. I suspect we may have different ideas of "strong diversity."
Vassar, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Haverford, Macalester, Scripps, Pitzer, Occidental (Obama's first college), Reed, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, and every women's college I've looked at all have over 40% students of color.
"students of color" don't mean much. Not PP you are responding to but I avoid SLACS for same reason. I'm black. Looking for black people. Not students of color. Vasser for example has 4% black people. Wesleyan has 3.2% Etc.....No thanks!
Then you need look no further than a HBCU.
I did undergrad at an HBCU and did my masters at Stanford for electrical engineering. My son is now looking at HBCUs and diverse non-HBCUs. There are schools that bring in more than 3 and 4% black undergrad students. They're not SLACS.
Swarthmore is 7.6% Black or African American. VT is 4.8% and UVA is 6.8%. You shouldn't generalize.
Not the person you're talking to but VT is 9% this year.
VT got to 9% (actually 8.7%) by combining black with multi-race, so that is changing the measuring stick. Actual is 6.8%. Still it is an improvement.
You can't live in a country that claims the one drop rule and then be mad when the one drop rule is applied. Cops don't ask those multi-race people if they're mullti-race before they shoot them unarmed.
Then use your one drop rule for all schools or whatever it is you are advocating for, but do it the same way for all schools rather than one way for one (VT) and another way for the others.
Pretty much every college does in their counts which is why 3-4% is worse than it even looks for someone interested in a decent black population.
OK, let's compare VT (entering class of 2025) to Virginia demographics:
Black: Virginia 19.2%; VT 6.8%
Mixed Race: Virginia 3.8%; VT 1.9%
Black + Mixed Race: Virginia 23%; VT 8.7%
Still hire than a SLAC and this was about why some URM choose large pu lic over SLAC and VT is just one school. A URM has a better chance of finding people who look like then at a large flagship than a SLAC
^ "higher." Soery!
But VT is not higher than the SLAC cited, Swarthmore. It also isn't higher than many other SLACs. Your premise is wrong.
Anonymous
01/11/2022 21:51
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a brown URM I would never choose a LAC or SLACK because they tend to lack racial diversity. Public flagships have more people that look like me.
For the more rural LACs that can be true, but many LACs have a strong diversity of students, especially those that are more selective. You should check out their Common Data Sets to see the numbers.
I have yet to find one. Would love to be pointed in that direction. I suspect we may have different ideas of "strong diversity."
Vassar, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Haverford, Macalester, Scripps, Pitzer, Occidental (Obama's first college), Reed, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, and every women's college I've looked at all have over 40% students of color.
"students of color" don't mean much. Not PP you are responding to but I avoid SLACS for same reason. I'm black. Looking for black people. Not students of color. Vasser for example has 4% black people. Wesleyan has 3.2% Etc.....No thanks!
Then you need look no further than a HBCU.
I did undergrad at an HBCU and did my masters at Stanford for electrical engineering. My son is now looking at HBCUs and diverse non-HBCUs. There are schools that bring in more than 3 and 4% black undergrad students. They're not SLACS.
Swarthmore is 7.6% Black or African American. VT is 4.8% and UVA is 6.8%. You shouldn't generalize.
Not the person you're talking to but VT is 9% this year.
VT got to 9% (actually 8.7%) by combining black with multi-race, so that is changing the measuring stick. Actual is 6.8%. Still it is an improvement.
You can't live in a country that claims the one drop rule and then be mad when the one drop rule is applied. Cops don't ask those multi-race people if they're mullti-race before they shoot them unarmed.
Then use your one drop rule for all schools or whatever it is you are advocating for, but do it the same way for all schools rather than one way for one (VT) and another way for the others.
Pretty much every college does in their counts which is why 3-4% is worse than it even looks for someone interested in a decent black population.
OK, let's compare VT (entering class of 2025) to Virginia demographics:
Black: Virginia 19.2%; VT 6.8%
Mixed Race: Virginia 3.8%; VT 1.9%
Black + Mixed Race: Virginia 23%; VT 8.7%
Still hire than a SLAC and this was about why some URM choose large pu lic over SLAC and VT is just one school. A URM has a better chance of finding people who look like then at a large flagship than a SLAC
^ "higher." Soery!
Anonymous
01/11/2022 21:50
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a brown URM I would never choose a LAC or SLACK because they tend to lack racial diversity. Public flagships have more people that look like me.
For the more rural LACs that can be true, but many LACs have a strong diversity of students, especially those that are more selective. You should check out their Common Data Sets to see the numbers.
I have yet to find one. Would love to be pointed in that direction. I suspect we may have different ideas of "strong diversity."
Vassar, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Haverford, Macalester, Scripps, Pitzer, Occidental (Obama's first college), Reed, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, and every women's college I've looked at all have over 40% students of color.
"students of color" don't mean much. Not PP you are responding to but I avoid SLACS for same reason. I'm black. Looking for black people. Not students of color. Vasser for example has 4% black people. Wesleyan has 3.2% Etc.....No thanks!
Then you need look no further than a HBCU.
I did undergrad at an HBCU and did my masters at Stanford for electrical engineering. My son is now looking at HBCUs and diverse non-HBCUs. There are schools that bring in more than 3 and 4% black undergrad students. They're not SLACS.
Swarthmore is 7.6% Black or African American. VT is 4.8% and UVA is 6.8%. You shouldn't generalize.
Not the person you're talking to but VT is 9% this year.
VT got to 9% (actually 8.7%) by combining black with multi-race, so that is changing the measuring stick. Actual is 6.8%. Still it is an improvement.
You can't live in a country that claims the one drop rule and then be mad when the one drop rule is applied. Cops don't ask those multi-race people if they're mullti-race before they shoot them unarmed.
Then use your one drop rule for all schools or whatever it is you are advocating for, but do it the same way for all schools rather than one way for one (VT) and another way for the others.
Pretty much every college does in their counts which is why 3-4% is worse than it even looks for someone interested in a decent black population.
OK, let's compare VT (entering class of 2025) to Virginia demographics:
Black: Virginia 19.2%; VT 6.8%
Mixed Race: Virginia 3.8%; VT 1.9%
Black + Mixed Race: Virginia 23%; VT 8.7%
Still hire than a SLAC and this was about why some URM choose large pu lic over SLAC and VT is just one school. A URM has a better chance of finding people who look like then at a large flagship than a SLAC
VT wasn't higher than Swarthmore, for instance, and neither was UVA.
Anonymous
01/11/2022 21:48
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a brown URM I would never choose a LAC or SLACK because they tend to lack racial diversity. Public flagships have more people that look like me.
For the more rural LACs that can be true, but many LACs have a strong diversity of students, especially those that are more selective. You should check out their Common Data Sets to see the numbers.
I have yet to find one. Would love to be pointed in that direction. I suspect we may have different ideas of "strong diversity."
Vassar, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Haverford, Macalester, Scripps, Pitzer, Occidental (Obama's first college), Reed, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, and every women's college I've looked at all have over 40% students of color.
"students of color" don't mean much. Not PP you are responding to but I avoid SLACS for same reason. I'm black. Looking for black people. Not students of color. Vasser for example has 4% black people. Wesleyan has 3.2% Etc.....No thanks!
Then you need look no further than a HBCU.
I did undergrad at an HBCU and did my masters at Stanford for electrical engineering. My son is now looking at HBCUs and diverse non-HBCUs. There are schools that bring in more than 3 and 4% black undergrad students. They're not SLACS.
Swarthmore is 7.6% Black or African American. VT is 4.8% and UVA is 6.8%. You shouldn't generalize.
Not the person you're talking to but VT is 9% this year.
VT got to 9% (actually 8.7%) by combining black with multi-race, so that is changing the measuring stick. Actual is 6.8%. Still it is an improvement.
You can't live in a country that claims the one drop rule and then be mad when the one drop rule is applied. Cops don't ask those multi-race people if they're mullti-race before they shoot them unarmed.
Then use your one drop rule for all schools or whatever it is you are advocating for, but do it the same way for all schools rather than one way for one (VT) and another way for the others.
Pretty much every college does in their counts which is why 3-4% is worse than it even looks for someone interested in a decent black population.
OK, let's compare VT (entering class of 2025) to Virginia demographics:
Black: Virginia 19.2%; VT 6.8%
Mixed Race: Virginia 3.8%; VT 1.9%
Black + Mixed Race: Virginia 23%; VT 8.7%
Still hire than a SLAC and this was about why some URM choose large pu lic over SLAC and VT is just one school. A URM has a better chance of finding people who look like then at a large flagship than a SLAC
Anonymous
01/11/2022 16:30
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a brown URM I would never choose a LAC or SLACK because they tend to lack racial diversity. Public flagships have more people that look like me.
For the more rural LACs that can be true, but many LACs have a strong diversity of students, especially those that are more selective. You should check out their Common Data Sets to see the numbers.
I have yet to find one. Would love to be pointed in that direction. I suspect we may have different ideas of "strong diversity."
Vassar, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Haverford, Macalester, Scripps, Pitzer, Occidental (Obama's first college), Reed, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, and every women's college I've looked at all have over 40% students of color.
"students of color" don't mean much. Not PP you are responding to but I avoid SLACS for same reason. I'm black. Looking for black people. Not students of color. Vasser for example has 4% black people. Wesleyan has 3.2% Etc.....No thanks!
Then you need look no further than a HBCU.
I did undergrad at an HBCU and did my masters at Stanford for electrical engineering. My son is now looking at HBCUs and diverse non-HBCUs. There are schools that bring in more than 3 and 4% black undergrad students. They're not SLACS.
Swarthmore is 7.6% Black or African American. VT is 4.8% and UVA is 6.8%. You shouldn't generalize.
Not the person you're talking to but VT is 9% this year.
VT got to 9% (actually 8.7%) by combining black with multi-race, so that is changing the measuring stick. Actual is 6.8%. Still it is an improvement.
You can't live in a country that claims the one drop rule and then be mad when the one drop rule is applied. Cops don't ask those multi-race people if they're mullti-race before they shoot them unarmed.
Then use your one drop rule for all schools or whatever it is you are advocating for, but do it the same way for all schools rather than one way for one (VT) and another way for the others.
Pretty much every college does in their counts which is why 3-4% is worse than it even looks for someone interested in a decent black population.
OK, let's compare VT (entering class of 2025) to Virginia demographics:
Black: Virginia 19.2%; VT 6.8%
Mixed Race: Virginia 3.8%; VT 1.9%
Black + Mixed Race: Virginia 23%; VT 8.7%
when doing the analysis, you don't compare against Virginia demographics as a whole - you compare to the college-age cohort of the minority applying. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/24/us/affirmative-action.html
Which I still suspect will show a wide gap.
Anonymous
01/11/2022 15:39
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a brown URM I would never choose a LAC or SLACK because they tend to lack racial diversity. Public flagships have more people that look like me.
For the more rural LACs that can be true, but many LACs have a strong diversity of students, especially those that are more selective. You should check out their Common Data Sets to see the numbers.
I have yet to find one. Would love to be pointed in that direction. I suspect we may have different ideas of "strong diversity."
Vassar, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Haverford, Macalester, Scripps, Pitzer, Occidental (Obama's first college), Reed, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Carleton, and every women's college I've looked at all have over 40% students of color.
"students of color" don't mean much. Not PP you are responding to but I avoid SLACS for same reason. I'm black. Looking for black people. Not students of color. Vasser for example has 4% black people. Wesleyan has 3.2% Etc.....No thanks!
Then you need look no further than a HBCU.
I did undergrad at an HBCU and did my masters at Stanford for electrical engineering. My son is now looking at HBCUs and diverse non-HBCUs. There are schools that bring in more than 3 and 4% black undergrad students. They're not SLACS.
Swarthmore is 7.6% Black or African American. VT is 4.8% and UVA is 6.8%. You shouldn't generalize.
Not the person you're talking to but VT is 9% this year.
VT got to 9% (actually 8.7%) by combining black with multi-race, so that is changing the measuring stick. Actual is 6.8%. Still it is an improvement.
You can't live in a country that claims the one drop rule and then be mad when the one drop rule is applied. Cops don't ask those multi-race people if they're mullti-race before they shoot them unarmed.
Then use your one drop rule for all schools or whatever it is you are advocating for, but do it the same way for all schools rather than one way for one (VT) and another way for the others.
Pretty much every college does in their counts which is why 3-4% is worse than it even looks for someone interested in a decent black population.
OK, let's compare VT (entering class of 2025) to Virginia demographics:
Black: Virginia 19.2%; VT 6.8%
Mixed Race: Virginia 3.8%; VT 1.9%
Black + Mixed Race: Virginia 23%; VT 8.7%
when doing the analysis, you don't compare against Virginia demographics as a whole - you compare to the college-age cohort of the minority applying. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/24/us/affirmative-action.html
Anonymous
01/11/2022 15:30
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:It's difficult for me to take with any sincerity the desire for diversity because at the end what happens is they go to a school where everyone thinks the same and votes the same and parrots the same thing. There's preciously little ideological diversity at the elite schools and it's gotten worse over time.
I also don't care if you look at a group and say, wow, three different races, because if everyone agrees the same, that's not diversity.
It's bonus points, ticking off a checklist of approved criteria without really offering anything meaningful. In real life what happens is that the rich kids stick with the rich kids in their elusive world, the UMC progressive kids hang out with the other UMC progressive kids, the black kids hang out with the other black kids, the kids on the margins ie from small rural towns always feel somewhat on the margin and never fit in. The kids who boast the most about wanting to learn from diverse viewpoints never learn anything new because they also don't really want to learn anything new. They just seek the very limited range of preapproved ideas to suit and justify their preconceived biases. Then after graduation they move to Brooklyn to become "activists" and repeat the same ideologically narrow acceptance of ideas and viewpoints
No part of your premise is valid. You should make an effort to look at the real world and evaluate evidence rather than deciding that you can ignore honest feedback from multiple people because of what the voices in your head are telling you.
One characteristic that you may notice about people who report that they value diversity is that there is a high degree of overlap with people who seek out and value evidence and make decisions based on that. For example, people who value diversity also tend to not believe that the 2020 election was “stolen” because they look at the so called evidence and saw that it was absurdly, pathetically invalid. Likewise, people like that tend to believe that vaccines work because they have looked at the objective evidence. Same thing with climate change, the negative long term impact of widening income inequality, the overwhelming evidence —- most of it funded by police departments — of unequal treatment of people by law enforcement along racial lines, etc. Perhaps you are confusing this tendency to evaluate evidence and accept evidence-based reality with what you term “lack of ideological diversity.”
Anonymous
01/11/2022 15:23
Subject: Re:Why a Large Flagship/Public?
Anonymous wrote:It's difficult for me to take with any sincerity the desire for diversity because at the end what happens is they go to a school where everyone thinks the same and votes the same and parrots the same thing. There's preciously little ideological diversity at the elite schools and it's gotten worse over time.
I also don't care if you look at a group and say, wow, three different races, because if everyone agrees the same, that's not diversity.
It's bonus points, ticking off a checklist of approved criteria without really offering anything meaningful. In real life what happens is that the rich kids stick with the rich kids in their elusive world, the UMC progressive kids hang out with the other UMC progressive kids, the black kids hang out with the other black kids, the kids on the margins ie from small rural towns always feel somewhat on the margin and never fit in. The kids who boast the most about wanting to learn from diverse viewpoints never learn anything new because they also don't really want to learn anything new. They just seek the very limited range of preapproved ideas to suit and justify their preconceived biases. Then after graduation they move to Brooklyn to become "activists" and repeat the same ideologically narrow acceptance of ideas and viewpoints
Your cynicism is impressive, but not well informed.