Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will offer a contrarian view. Trump suffers from a form of narcissistic personality disorder. He was the president and who was anyone else to tell him that he wasn’t allowed to keep “his documents” relating to something he may have considered to be a success of his presidency. So he started to hoard things — including classified materials — with the thought that successive administrations would not give him the credit he thought he deserved. Was it unlawful? Yes. Was it incredibly irresponsible? Yes. Did he put US secrets at risk? Almost certainly. Has he improperly shared classified information in the past? No doubt. But do I think he was selling national intelligence secrets? No.

Has this been the case, DOJ would not have handled the matter with the care and patience it did. It would come as no surprise to anyone that Trump did not turn over presidential records that became the property of NARA on 1/20/21. Something like the infamous Sharpie hurricane map. It was no secret he had aides remove boxes from the West Wing to the residence during the course of January. And senior staff attempted to discuss his legal obligations to surrender documents during that same period.

After repeated efforts to recover the documents, a grand jury was empaneled to subpoena the missing presidential records. Only then was there a recognition that Trump had taken voluminous classified material. And it would subsequently be discovered that his attorneys lied about the possession of such material all-the-while there was no meaningful effort to secure material tossed in boxes with raincoats and golf balls. But Trump was fully aware of the importance of some of the material. It’s the reason that boxes continued to be moved in and out of the storage area and some were found in the closet of his private office suite.

But we still have no indication that Trump was seeking to affirmatively misuse the material for personal or political gain. The time allowed to pass between May and August doesn’t seem to support this was the case. Nonetheless the counterintelligence professionals couldn’t have been happy about Orban visiting MAL earlier in the month and other foreign contacts that have not been made public. Let’s hope this was ultimately more a matter of securing positive control over the material and not something more sinister.

I don’t even know what to say to this.

DP and let me caveat that I hate Trump. I think he is a dangerous authoritarian. I believe January 6th and the efforts around it were an attempted coup/autogolpe.

But I agree with the PP's assessment. I don't think Trump cares one bit about this country or about IC safeguards or the like. But I also don't find it plausible that he was feeding information to a foreign intelligence service on any sort of routinized basis. He's too erratic to take direction from anyone. I think the danger is actually that a foreign intelligence service recruits/co-opts a staffer, or plants someone and that person leverages their access to get Trump to share information or documents.

I absolutely think Trump should be in jail for improperly handling classified, or at least charged and fined. Plus the taking of records he didn't have a right to take. It's completely possible that the records at Mar a Lago were exposed to people that shouldn't have had access to them. I just don't really buy all these crazy stories that Trump exposed assets! Or Trump gave up nuclear information!

It makes for good stories, but I wonder if you have people that are expecting Trump faces treason charges and when he doesn't they lose even more faith in our government and judicial system. I don't think it's a healthy information environment.

You're off your rocker. Just look at the three very reasonable crimes laid out in the warrant. That's it. There's no bloody treason. Those three are serious enough, and can be proved.

***Trump does not need to have monetized his information to be jailed***

***Trump does not need to have INTENDED to sell out agents to EFFECTIVELY sell them out!***

Same thing for nuclear secrets.

Multiple average people have already come forward to say that while guests of Trump, they were shown documents that looked confidential (exact classification uncertain).
That's what he does!!! He cannot live by himself. He has to live at a club with the constant adulation of guests. The way he feeds that adulation is to show them things no one else can show them.
He has a pathological need for recognition and it leads him to share national security docs with all and sundry.
And we already know a Chinese agent was apprehended at Mar-a-Lago at one point. It's obvious there were many more spies.

The obvious scenario is that he showed compromising agent information to someone from the other side, without even thinking he was putting anyone in danger.
He may have also done this with nuclear info.

The other obvious scenario is that his staff has either done the same thing or monetized the information for their own gain (cough-Kushner).

IT'S ALL JAIL-WORTHY.

DP. Interestingly, the FBI's search affidavit lists all the classified handling markings on the documents they seized. The marking that is used for nuclear was not on the list. There are other very concerning markings, but not the ones for nuclear.

Us nuclear. Foreign nuclear can fall under the codes

No, that isnt how it works. Atomic bombs are based on physics. Physics are the same in the US as in foreign nations. It would be irrational to classify our own stuff from our own people, but be less restrictive about other programs. All atomic secrets fall under certain markings that were not on the list.

Anonymous wrote:He needs to be prosecuted for his crimes. And suffer the consequences.
I agree with a PP that all this speculation about his motives is pointless. Unless the DOJ has proof, there will be no prosecution.
TFG has his flunkies do his dirty work, so there may be little or no evidence proving his guilt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump appointed judge issued order confirming her intention to appoint a Special Master even before DOJ had the opportunity to respond to the “motion” with regard to the supplemental brief filed yesterday. The putative lawsuit hasn’t even been served in accordance with Rule 4.

You write so many words
Yet I understand so few of them.

Not that PP and IANAL but I thought the Federalist/RWNJ Trump appointee judge is giving Trump access to stuff for his defense that shouldn’t be granted.

Other than President Obama, there likely isn't an available attorney available who has the clearance to review said materials.

Yes, there are lawyers who have SCI clearance. And don’t forget that our intelligence agencies have the clearances to review the materials. Since they wrote them.

I don’t think a special master can be a government employee. That’s kind of the point.

There are certainly attorneys with SCI, but these documents appear to have all kinds of different types of clearances. Not sure you’d find a private attorney with all of them.

Oh, and I see no markings that an SCI wouldnt cover. Its also not hard to just read someone on.

So you've seen the documents to know this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The "Oops, he didn't mean to" defense does not work for national security breaches.

No it doesn’t! People get in huge, life alternating, almost Kafkaesque trouble.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump appointed judge issued order confirming her intention to appoint a Special Master even before DOJ had the opportunity to respond to the “motion” with regard to the supplemental brief filed yesterday. The putative lawsuit hasn’t even been served in accordance with Rule 4.

You write so many words
Yet I understand so few of them.

Not that PP and IANAL but I thought the Federalist/RWNJ Trump appointee judge is giving Trump access to stuff for his defense that shouldn’t be granted.

Other than President Obama, there likely isn't an available attorney available who has the clearance to review said materials.

Yes, there are lawyers who have SCI clearance. And don’t forget that our intelligence agencies have the clearances to review the materials. Since they wrote them.

I don’t think a special master can be a government employee. That’s kind of the point.

There are certainly attorneys with SCI, but these documents appear to have all kinds of different types of clearances. Not sure you’d find a private attorney with all of them.

Oh, and I see no markings that an SCI wouldnt cover. Its also not hard to just read someone on.

Anonymous wrote:
The "Oops, he didn't mean to" defense does not work for national security breaches.

Anonymous wrote:I will offer a contrarian view. Trump suffers from a form of narcissistic personality disorder. He was the president and who was anyone else to tell him that he wasn’t allowed to keep “his documents” relating to something he may have considered to be a success of his presidency. So he started to hoard things — including classified materials — with the thought that successive administrations would not give him the credit he thought he deserved. Was it unlawful? Yes. Was it incredibly irresponsible? Yes. Did he put US secrets at risk? Almost certainly. Has he improperly shared classified information in the past? No doubt. But do I think he was selling national intelligence secrets? No.

Has this been the case, DOJ would not have handled the matter with the care and patience it did. It would come as no surprise to anyone that Trump did not turn over presidential records that became the property of NARA on 1/20/21. Something like the infamous Sharpie hurricane map. It was no secret he had aides remove boxes from the West Wing to the residence during the course of January. And senior staff attempted to discuss his legal obligations to surrender documents during that same period.

After repeated efforts to recover the documents, a grand jury was empaneled to subpoena the missing presidential records. Only then was there a recognition that Trump had taken voluminous classified material. And it would subsequently be discovered that his attorneys lied about the possession of such material all-the-while there was no meaningful effort to secure material tossed in boxes with raincoats and golf balls. But Trump was fully aware of the importance of some of the material. It’s the reason that boxes continued to be moved in and out of the storage area and some were found in the closet of his private office suite.

But we still have no indication that Trump was seeking to affirmatively misuse the material for personal or political gain. The time allowed to pass between May and August doesn’t seem to support this was the case. Nonetheless the counterintelligence professionals couldn’t have been happy about Orban visiting MAL earlier in the month and other foreign contacts that have not been made public. Let’s hope this was ultimately more a matter of securing positive control over the material and not something more sinister.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will offer a contrarian view. Trump suffers from a form of narcissistic personality disorder. He was the president and who was anyone else to tell him that he wasn’t allowed to keep “his documents” relating to something he may have considered to be a success of his presidency. So he started to hoard things — including classified materials — with the thought that successive administrations would not give him the credit he thought he deserved. Was it unlawful? Yes. Was it incredibly irresponsible? Yes. Did he put US secrets at risk? Almost certainly. Has he improperly shared classified information in the past? No doubt. But do I think he was selling national intelligence secrets? No.

Has this been the case, DOJ would not have handled the matter with the care and patience it did. It would come as no surprise to anyone that Trump did not turn over presidential records that became the property of NARA on 1/20/21. Something like the infamous Sharpie hurricane map. It was no secret he had aides remove boxes from the West Wing to the residence during the course of January. And senior staff attempted to discuss his legal obligations to surrender documents during that same period.

After repeated efforts to recover the documents, a grand jury was empaneled to subpoena the missing presidential records. Only then was there a recognition that Trump had taken voluminous classified material. And it would subsequently be discovered that his attorneys lied about the possession of such material all-the-while there was no meaningful effort to secure material tossed in boxes with raincoats and golf balls. But Trump was fully aware of the importance of some of the material. It’s the reason that boxes continued to be moved in and out of the storage area and some were found in the closet of his private office suite.

But we still have no indication that Trump was seeking to affirmatively misuse the material for personal or political gain. The time allowed to pass between May and August doesn’t seem to support this was the case. Nonetheless the counterintelligence professionals couldn’t have been happy about Orban visiting MAL earlier in the month and other foreign contacts that have not been made public. Let’s hope this was ultimately more a matter of securing positive control over the material and not something more sinister.

I don’t even know what to say to this.

DP and let me caveat that I hate Trump. I think he is a dangerous authoritarian. I believe January 6th and the efforts around it were an attempted coup/autogolpe.

But I agree with the PP's assessment. I don't think Trump cares one bit about this country or about IC safeguards or the like. But I also don't find it plausible that he was feeding information to a foreign intelligence service on any sort of routinized basis. He's too erratic to take direction from anyone. I think the danger is actually that a foreign intelligence service recruits/co-opts a staffer, or plants someone and that person leverages their access to get Trump to share information or documents.

I absolutely think Trump should be in jail for improperly handling classified, or at least charged and fined. Plus the taking of records he didn't have a right to take. It's completely possible that the records at Mar a Lago were exposed to people that shouldn't have had access to them. I just don't really buy all these crazy stories that Trump exposed assets! Or Trump gave up nuclear information!

It makes for good stories, but I wonder if you have people that are expecting Trump faces treason charges and when he doesn't they lose even more faith in our government and judicial system. I don't think it's a healthy information environment.

You're off your rocker. Just look at the three very reasonable crimes laid out in the warrant. That's it. There's no bloody treason. Those three are serious enough, and can be proved.

***Trump does not need to have monetized his information to be jailed***

***Trump does not need to have INTENDED to sell out agents to EFFECTIVELY sell them out!***

Same thing for nuclear secrets.

Multiple average people have already come forward to say that while guests of Trump, they were shown documents that looked confidential (exact classification uncertain).
That's what he does!!! He cannot live by himself. He has to live at a club with the constant adulation of guests. The way he feeds that adulation is to show them things no one else can show them.
He has a pathological need for recognition and it leads him to share national security docs with all and sundry.
And we already know a Chinese agent was apprehended at Mar-a-Lago at one point. It's obvious there were many more spies.

The obvious scenario is that he showed compromising agent information to someone from the other side, without even thinking he was putting anyone in danger.
He may have also done this with nuclear info.

The other obvious scenario is that his staff has either done the same thing or monetized the information for their own gain (cough-Kushner).

IT'S ALL JAIL-WORTHY.

DP. Interestingly, the FBI's search affidavit lists all the classified handling markings on the documents they seized. The marking that is used for nuclear was not on the list. There are other very concerning markings, but not the ones for nuclear.

Us nuclear. Foreign nuclear can fall under the codes

No, that isnt how it works. Atomic bombs are based on physics. Physics are the same in the US as in foreign nations. It would be irrational to classify our own stuff from our own people, but be less restrictive about other programs. All atomic secrets fall under certain markings that were not on the list.

Be that as it may, the point is that the PP is delusional if they believe that DOJ needs to show INTENT to harm. All Trump has likely done is show incredibly sensitive info to tons of inappropriate people, just for kicks. And maybe as a result some of our agents have been "neutralized".

This is all because Trump cannot care for anyone but himself. He doesn't think about others' wellbeing at all. So here his lack of humanity tripped him up, and turned him into a national security risk. Punishable to the fullest extent of the law, IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will offer a contrarian view. Trump suffers from a form of narcissistic personality disorder. He was the president and who was anyone else to tell him that he wasn’t allowed to keep “his documents” relating to something he may have considered to be a success of his presidency. So he started to hoard things — including classified materials — with the thought that successive administrations would not give him the credit he thought he deserved. Was it unlawful? Yes. Was it incredibly irresponsible? Yes. Did he put US secrets at risk? Almost certainly. Has he improperly shared classified information in the past? No doubt. But do I think he was selling national intelligence secrets? No.

Has this been the case, DOJ would not have handled the matter with the care and patience it did. It would come as no surprise to anyone that Trump did not turn over presidential records that became the property of NARA on 1/20/21. Something like the infamous Sharpie hurricane map. It was no secret he had aides remove boxes from the West Wing to the residence during the course of January. And senior staff attempted to discuss his legal obligations to surrender documents during that same period.

After repeated efforts to recover the documents, a grand jury was empaneled to subpoena the missing presidential records. Only then was there a recognition that Trump had taken voluminous classified material. And it would subsequently be discovered that his attorneys lied about the possession of such material all-the-while there was no meaningful effort to secure material tossed in boxes with raincoats and golf balls. But Trump was fully aware of the importance of some of the material. It’s the reason that boxes continued to be moved in and out of the storage area and some were found in the closet of his private office suite.

But we still have no indication that Trump was seeking to affirmatively misuse the material for personal or political gain. The time allowed to pass between May and August doesn’t seem to support this was the case. Nonetheless the counterintelligence professionals couldn’t have been happy about Orban visiting MAL earlier in the month and other foreign contacts that have not been made public. Let’s hope this was ultimately more a matter of securing positive control over the material and not something more sinister.

I don’t even know what to say to this.

DP and let me caveat that I hate Trump. I think he is a dangerous authoritarian. I believe January 6th and the efforts around it were an attempted coup/autogolpe.

But I agree with the PP's assessment. I don't think Trump cares one bit about this country or about IC safeguards or the like. But I also don't find it plausible that he was feeding information to a foreign intelligence service on any sort of routinized basis. He's too erratic to take direction from anyone. I think the danger is actually that a foreign intelligence service recruits/co-opts a staffer, or plants someone and that person leverages their access to get Trump to share information or documents.

I absolutely think Trump should be in jail for improperly handling classified, or at least charged and fined. Plus the taking of records he didn't have a right to take. It's completely possible that the records at Mar a Lago were exposed to people that shouldn't have had access to them. I just don't really buy all these crazy stories that Trump exposed assets! Or Trump gave up nuclear information!

It makes for good stories, but I wonder if you have people that are expecting Trump faces treason charges and when he doesn't they lose even more faith in our government and judicial system. I don't think it's a healthy information environment.

You're off your rocker. Just look at the three very reasonable crimes laid out in the warrant. That's it. There's no bloody treason. Those three are serious enough, and can be proved.

***Trump does not need to have monetized his information to be jailed***

***Trump does not need to have INTENDED to sell out agents to EFFECTIVELY sell them out!***

Same thing for nuclear secrets.

Multiple average people have already come forward to say that while guests of Trump, they were shown documents that looked confidential (exact classification uncertain).
That's what he does!!! He cannot live by himself. He has to live at a club with the constant adulation of guests. The way he feeds that adulation is to show them things no one else can show them.
He has a pathological need for recognition and it leads him to share national security docs with all and sundry.
And we already know a Chinese agent was apprehended at Mar-a-Lago at one point. It's obvious there were many more spies.

The obvious scenario is that he showed compromising agent information to someone from the other side, without even thinking he was putting anyone in danger.
He may have also done this with nuclear info.

The other obvious scenario is that his staff has either done the same thing or monetized the information for their own gain (cough-Kushner).

IT'S ALL JAIL-WORTHY.

DP. Interestingly, the FBI's search affidavit lists all the classified handling markings on the documents they seized. The marking that is used for nuclear was not on the list. There are other very concerning markings, but not the ones for nuclear.

Us nuclear. Foreign nuclear can fall under the codes

No, that isnt how it works. Atomic bombs are based on physics. Physics are the same in the US as in foreign nations. It would be irrational to classify our own stuff from our own people, but be less restrictive about other programs. All atomic secrets fall under certain markings that were not on the list.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will offer a contrarian view. Trump suffers from a form of narcissistic personality disorder. He was the president and who was anyone else to tell him that he wasn’t allowed to keep “his documents” relating to something he may have considered to be a success of his presidency. So he started to hoard things — including classified materials — with the thought that successive administrations would not give him the credit he thought he deserved. Was it unlawful? Yes. Was it incredibly irresponsible? Yes. Did he put US secrets at risk? Almost certainly. Has he improperly shared classified information in the past? No doubt. But do I think he was selling national intelligence secrets? No.

Has this been the case, DOJ would not have handled the matter with the care and patience it did. It would come as no surprise to anyone that Trump did not turn over presidential records that became the property of NARA on 1/20/21. Something like the infamous Sharpie hurricane map. It was no secret he had aides remove boxes from the West Wing to the residence during the course of January. And senior staff attempted to discuss his legal obligations to surrender documents during that same period.

After repeated efforts to recover the documents, a grand jury was empaneled to subpoena the missing presidential records. Only then was there a recognition that Trump had taken voluminous classified material. And it would subsequently be discovered that his attorneys lied about the possession of such material all-the-while there was no meaningful effort to secure material tossed in boxes with raincoats and golf balls. But Trump was fully aware of the importance of some of the material. It’s the reason that boxes continued to be moved in and out of the storage area and some were found in the closet of his private office suite.

But we still have no indication that Trump was seeking to affirmatively misuse the material for personal or political gain. The time allowed to pass between May and August doesn’t seem to support this was the case. Nonetheless the counterintelligence professionals couldn’t have been happy about Orban visiting MAL earlier in the month and other foreign contacts that have not been made public. Let’s hope this was ultimately more a matter of securing positive control over the material and not something more sinister.

I don’t even know what to say to this.

DP and let me caveat that I hate Trump. I think he is a dangerous authoritarian. I believe January 6th and the efforts around it were an attempted coup/autogolpe.

But I agree with the PP's assessment. I don't think Trump cares one bit about this country or about IC safeguards or the like. But I also don't find it plausible that he was feeding information to a foreign intelligence service on any sort of routinized basis. He's too erratic to take direction from anyone. I think the danger is actually that a foreign intelligence service recruits/co-opts a staffer, or plants someone and that person leverages their access to get Trump to share information or documents.

I absolutely think Trump should be in jail for improperly handling classified, or at least charged and fined. Plus the taking of records he didn't have a right to take. It's completely possible that the records at Mar a Lago were exposed to people that shouldn't have had access to them. I just don't really buy all these crazy stories that Trump exposed assets! Or Trump gave up nuclear information!

It makes for good stories, but I wonder if you have people that are expecting Trump faces treason charges and when he doesn't they lose even more faith in our government and judicial system. I don't think it's a healthy information environment.

You're off your rocker. Just look at the three very reasonable crimes laid out in the warrant. That's it. There's no bloody treason. Those three are serious enough, and can be proved.

***Trump does not need to have monetized his information to be jailed***

***Trump does not need to have INTENDED to sell out agents to EFFECTIVELY sell them out!***

Same thing for nuclear secrets.

Multiple average people have already come forward to say that while guests of Trump, they were shown documents that looked confidential (exact classification uncertain).
That's what he does!!! He cannot live by himself. He has to live at a club with the constant adulation of guests. The way he feeds that adulation is to show them things no one else can show them.
He has a pathological need for recognition and it leads him to share national security docs with all and sundry.
And we already know a Chinese agent was apprehended at Mar-a-Lago at one point. It's obvious there were many more spies.

The obvious scenario is that he showed compromising agent information to someone from the other side, without even thinking he was putting anyone in danger.
He may have also done this with nuclear info.

The other obvious scenario is that his staff has either done the same thing or monetized the information for their own gain (cough-Kushner).

IT'S ALL JAIL-WORTHY.

DP. Interestingly, the FBI's search affidavit lists all the classified handling markings on the documents they seized. The marking that is used for nuclear was not on the list. There are other very concerning markings, but not the ones for nuclear.

Us nuclear. Foreign nuclear can fall under the codes