Anonymous wrote:I am in the same situation as OP. My DD was a girly girl up until changing to a liberal private where they started teaching sex and sexuality in elementary school. Hitting topics like the genderbread person, how we all pick what we identify with, and made it sound really cool to be anything but heterosexual and the gender she was assigned at birth. The class actually had fun discussing what orientation they "wanted" to be and in the course of a few weeks changed their minds several times. It is baffling for us as her parents to watch this and while we were pretty positive she was a straight girl, we wanted to be kind and open "just in case".

During quarantine she and some friends got on tiktok and youtube and discovered tons of propaganda that really pushed the LGBTQ+ movement to the point it became obvious it was an agenda. Now she is all over the place and we are baffled as to how to deal with it. If she is anywhere in the LGBTQ+ family, we totally support her but I also want to guide her so that she does not make a decision in middle school based biased online quizzes, tiktok, or anything other than who she really is.

Easy. Pull her from the private school.

It’s not shocking to me that young white girls would want to be something else in our current “Karen” obsessed culture. As my daughters get older I really have to ask myself if staying in this area is a good idea. The self flagellation and moral superiority singling is a pain in the ass.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s very simple. Kids are easily influenced and at that age you want to be “special”. Right now being one of a dozen sexual brands will make you special. So she will try to figure out where she fits in. I wanted to have purple skin and blue hair at that age. Much more simple times. She’ll grow out of it.

Hair and name and clothes are not too hard. The challenge is when they escalate to demanding hormones and surgery while still in their teens, to match their newly perceived identity.

What about respecting the feelings of the child while also asking them to wait a few years before making irreversible changes to their body? I don't get why that's not a reasonable response.

that is entirely reasonable. What is unreasonable is conflating sex and gender— and telling a stereotypically masculine girl that she really is a boy (or non-binary) and allow her to become a lifelong medical patient.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s very simple. Kids are easily influenced and at that age you want to be “special”. Right now being one of a dozen sexual brands will make you special. So she will try to figure out where she fits in. I wanted to have purple skin and blue hair at that age. Much more simple times. She’ll grow out of it.

Hair and name and clothes are not too hard. The challenge is when they escalate to demanding hormones and surgery while still in their teens, to match their newly perceived identity.

What about respecting the feelings of the child while also asking them to wait a few years before making irreversible changes to their body? I don't get why that's not a reasonable response.

Anonymous wrote:DD 13 and her friends are also discussing gender and sexual orientation, all coming out etc.

As we were discussing the topic, I told her that everything is ok with me but that I thought that as young teens that are going through puberty, changing and discovering themselves it seems to me that they were spending an inordinate amount of time trying to label something in flux.

Maybe they should not worry so much about labels and see how they feel and what they like as the years go by. That their tastes will become clear to them as they meet people they are attracted to or not. No need to decide at age 12. After all, I do not know how I feel about bondage as I never tried.

Also I suggested that maybe this is spending a lot of time overthinking about themselves, their identity etc... and maybe spending a bit more time thinking about others and how to help others and be a good citizen would be more productive.

This is really what you would say to a 13 year old girl on this topic?

Wow.

Anonymous wrote:It’s very simple. Kids are easily influenced and at that age you want to be “special”. Right now being one of a dozen sexual brands will make you special. So she will try to figure out where she fits in. I wanted to have purple skin and blue hair at that age. Much more simple times. She’ll grow out of it.

Hair and name and clothes are not too hard. The challenge is when they escalate to demanding hormones and surgery while still in their teens, to match their newly perceived identity.

There are sooooo many parents in the exact same predicament. There is definitely something extremely unhealthy and regressive about the over emphasis on gender, now being conceptualized as an innate personal identity.

Here are some resources created by parents who were unable to find impartial, balanced information free from ideological, political and religious bias about this topic when they found themselves in this situation.

https://4thwavenow.com/ — In early 2015, after her daughter suddenly started identifying as a transman and after much research and fruitless searching for an alternative online viewpoint, Denise began writing about her deepening skepticism of the ever-accelerating medical and media fascination with the phenomenon of trans kids.

https://ourduty.group/ (support group for parents)

https://www.transgendertrend.com (website name comes from the most popular search term parents were using to find info)

Additional Info:
https://youtu.be/nkSiidVyHSE (highly reccomend)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8taOdnXD6o&t=3s (4 part series)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_IxxoJdLGQ

It’s very simple. Kids are easily influenced and at that age you want to be “special”. Right now being one of a dozen sexual brands will make you special. So she will try to figure out where she fits in. I wanted to have purple skin and blue hair at that age. Much more simple times. She’ll grow out of it.

Anonymous wrote:DD 13 and her friends are also discussing gender and sexual orientation, all coming out etc.

As we were discussing the topic, I told her that everything is ok with me but that I thought that as young teens that are going through puberty, changing and discovering themselves it seems to me that they were spending an inordinate amount of time trying to label something in flux.

Maybe they should not worry so much about labels and see how they feel and what they like as the years go by. That their tastes will become clear to them as they meet people they are attracted to or not. No need to decide at age 12. After all, I do not know how I feel about bondage as I never tried.

Also I suggested that maybe this is spending a lot of time overthinking about themselves, their identity etc... and maybe spending a bit more time thinking about others and how to help others and be a good citizen would be more productive.

+1

DD 13 and her friends are also discussing gender and sexual orientation, all coming out etc.

As we were discussing the topic, I told her that everything is ok with me but that I thought that as young teens that are going through puberty, changing and discovering themselves it seems to me that they were spending an inordinate amount of time trying to label something in flux.

Maybe they should not worry so much about labels and see how they feel and what they like as the years go by. That their tastes will become clear to them as they meet people they are attracted to or not. No need to decide at age 12. After all, I do not know how I feel about bondage as I never tried.

Also I suggested that maybe this is spending a lot of time overthinking about themselves, their identity etc... and maybe spending a bit more time thinking about others and how to help others and be a good citizen would be more productive.

I am just going to avoid a situation where my child truly is trans or not straight and I say “no you’re just confused because it’s a trend.”

If you say that to a kid who is just jumping in the bandwagon, it probably isn’t a big deal. I wouldn’t but they would get over it.

If you say that to a kid who really is trans or not straight and feels more comfortable acknowledging it because it happens to be socially acceptable right now, you have done serious damage to your relationship and it’s going to take a lot to fix it, if it can ever be fixed. Plus now you have given yourself the additional burden of parenting a kid with more anxiety and depression.

No thanks, I’ll just be chill about it.

Anonymous wrote:You have just verbalized what is stupid about this whole thread and kids discussing what they want to be - they are deciding what they want to be, not who they are and just "trying it out" like trying on clothes or something. That parents indulging this is beyond absurd.

In almost every other facet of one's personality, it is expected that we will learn, grow, 'try on' different aspects of our identity. I think that gender identity actually is part of this constellation of personality traits. Even in a binary gender system, tweens & adolescents go through phases (from tomboy to girly girl; more makeup to less makeup, etc.). I do think this is a fundamental disagreement, which is why I'm not accepting or personalizing your characterization of my support of my kid as absurd. I just disagree with your premise that it's somehow dangerous for my child (who is now late teens & a legal adult) to explore their relationship to the world & their identity. In fact, I think it's evidence of my child's serious examination of the world. Do I think sometimes it's navel-gazing? Sure. Do I remember being a navel-gazer at that age? Absolutely. When I think to myself, 'What is the most important thing here?' I am able to distill that making sure my child knows I love them & support them is 100% the goal.

Fortunately, we don't have to agree. You can judge me or my child, but as a PP noted, thankfully we now have legal structures in place so you can keep your value judgments away from my chlid's ability to pursue their preferred identity.

To the PP with the 11 year old - one of the parents involved reacted essentially like you did when our 12yo came out as bi. Our child has noted over the years that they felt really unsupported when we did this, because "You would never tell even a 5 year old who said 'I'm going to marry Prince Charming when I grow up'" that they should just resist labels & wait until they have sexual feelings to come out as straight. Sounds like you & your child are very close, and you are the type of supportive listener who connects with not only your child but their friends - just wanted to share our child's reax from age 12 (at the time, and today as they reflect in their late teens).

Anonymous wrote:They are related but they aren’t the same - and confusing them like op did, saying it’s “gender bending” to be questioning one’s sexuality and wondering if the parents lack of extreme gender conformity is a reason for it means that the op doesn’t understand that there are two separate spectrums. There can be extremely “girly” lesbians and people who define themselves as non-binary who “present” in a very “conventionally gendered” way, regardless of their sexuality.

Yeah but no one is arguing they are the same. They cannot be easily separated though and reinforce each other in physical, social and psychological ways. Of course there is a huge spectrum for stereotypical gender markers.

One thing we can agree on: We all want what is best for our children and want to help guide them to become healthy, independent and responsible adults.

They are related but they aren’t the same - and confusing them like op did, saying it’s “gender bending” to be questioning one’s sexuality and wondering if the parents lack of extreme gender conformity is a reason for it means that the op doesn’t understand that there are two separate spectrums. There can be extremely “girly” lesbians and people who define themselves as non-binary who “present” in a very “conventionally gendered” way, regardless of their sexuality.

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Anonymous wrote:You are confused because this isn’t gender you’re talking about, it’s sexuality.

You are attempting to separate Siamese Twins (gender and sexuality) using a butcher knife and no analgesia ...

Obviously they are going inextricably interconnected ...

No they aren’t.

+1. They totally aren’t.

Right, they are NOT the same thing and are not "inextricably interconnected". LGBTQI... lumps them together into the same "category" in a way, but the gender spectrum and the sexuality spectrum are completely distinct and if OP doesn't realize that and educate herself in this she's really going to mess up with her kid and society in general.

Oh, please. This is unnecessarily harsh. If you’ve spent any time around 12-13 year old girls lately, you might realize they’re a little confused about the interconnectedness of these concepts, too. We’re all just doing the best we can here.

And top colleges have entire majors devoted to exploring how gender and sexuality intersect ...

What is gender and sexuality studies?
Gender and sexuality studies trains you to examine gender relations and the construction of gender and sexual difference from a globally-informed perspective and to consider how gender and sexuality intersect with the social categories of race, class, ethnicity, disability, and age to produce our complex social ...

Intersectionality is not the same as being Siamese twins

Intersectionality is an analytical framework for understanding how aspects of a person's social and political identities combine to create different modes of discrimination and privilege.

Literally dozens of academic majors dedicated to understanding how they interconnect in complex ways ... willfully obtuse to pretend they are completely distinct and do not influence each other ....

Literally said they intersect (aka interconnect socially) but your are too willfully obtuse to admit they are not Siamese twins.

Can you please come up with your own insults? And try to be less literally minded? The main point being they cannot be surgically (precisely) divided - they cross over in many complex ways. Even The bible of US University rankings categorizes these programs as “Sex and Gender Studies” for a reason.

No. I prefer to use your own words against you.

Thanks for finally agreeing I’m right.

Kind of like risk and insurance... not the same, but intersecting.

Quite the opposite - your logic is that of a child without originality, depth or coherence. What part of “cannot clinically separate gender and sexuality” do you fail to comprehend ? This area of inquiry (the complex interplay between gender and sexuality) is studied at advanced levels in top universities in the US and abroad. Your failure to budge in the wake of overwhelming evidence is comical.

Your inability to understand science vs social is comical.

Have degrees in both. You sound like an immature bully with an irony deficiency.

You have not provided any empirical evidence for your claims but talk as if you have the final word. Both the social and physical sciences require evidence and consensus building for their theories to be widely accepted. There is a large body of evidence in many different disciplines (medicine/ psychology/
Anthropology/ sociology for starters) that gender and sexuality are closely connected. No one is arguing they are the same. Why do you keep hammering that straw man argument?

Hope your children are as narrow minded and inflexible as you are or you will be in for a very rough ride as they begin to make their own paths in life.

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Anonymous wrote:You are confused because this isn’t gender you’re talking about, it’s sexuality.

You are attempting to separate Siamese Twins (gender and sexuality) using a butcher knife and no analgesia ...

Obviously they are going inextricably interconnected ...

No they aren’t.

+1. They totally aren’t.

Right, they are NOT the same thing and are not "inextricably interconnected". LGBTQI... lumps them together into the same "category" in a way, but the gender spectrum and the sexuality spectrum are completely distinct and if OP doesn't realize that and educate herself in this she's really going to mess up with her kid and society in general.

Oh, please. This is unnecessarily harsh. If you’ve spent any time around 12-13 year old girls lately, you might realize they’re a little confused about the interconnectedness of these concepts, too. We’re all just doing the best we can here.

And top colleges have entire majors devoted to exploring how gender and sexuality intersect ...

What is gender and sexuality studies?
Gender and sexuality studies trains you to examine gender relations and the construction of gender and sexual difference from a globally-informed perspective and to consider how gender and sexuality intersect with the social categories of race, class, ethnicity, disability, and age to produce our complex social ...

Intersectionality is not the same as being Siamese twins

Intersectionality is an analytical framework for understanding how aspects of a person's social and political identities combine to create different modes of discrimination and privilege.

Literally dozens of academic majors dedicated to understanding how they interconnect in complex ways ... willfully obtuse to pretend they are completely distinct and do not influence each other ....

Literally said they intersect (aka interconnect socially) but your are too willfully obtuse to admit they are not Siamese twins.

Can you please come up with your own insults? And try to be less literally minded? The main point being they cannot be surgically (precisely) divided - they cross over in many complex ways. Even The bible of US University rankings categorizes these programs as “Sex and Gender Studies” for a reason.

No. I prefer to use your own words against you.

Thanks for finally agreeing I’m right.

Kind of like risk and insurance... not the same, but intersecting.

Quite the opposite - your logic is that of a child without originality, depth or coherence. What part of “cannot clinically separate gender and sexuality” do you fail to comprehend ? This area of inquiry (the complex interplay between gender and sexuality) is studied at advanced levels in top universities in the US and abroad. Your failure to budge in the wake of overwhelming evidence is comical.

Your inability to understand science vs social is comical.