Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing to me is that we only know what we know. Science has deemed XX as female, and XY as male, but we do know that even genetically, there are many intersex states. We don’t test people for their genetics unless there appears to be ambiguous genitalia or the like. We do know that hormone exposure in uterine can cause. We have no idea about if other genetic expressions can make a difference, because pretty much the only thing we base sex on is genitalia.

Science is science only as long as it’s known. That’s the cool thing. It’s constantly evolving and changing, and thinking we know now what we will know is just ignorant at best. So the people using “but, science” as an argument that trans people just have something wrong in their heads don’t understand science at all, IMHO. The world was flat until it wasn’t. Pluto was a planet until it wasn’t. You got sick from a miasma, until we knew about germs.

Not true. These days most women get routine genetic testing when they're pregnant, including to determine the chromosomal sex of the baby.

Right. And we know, through fetal genetic testing, that XX = female and XY = male. And genitalia aren't the only indicators of biological sex ... there are organs, like the uterus and then glands - prostate and mammary. Women have secondary sex characteristics like breasts.

Why are we debating science of sex? You can acknowledge the biology of sex and also recognize that sexual and gender identity are at the same time fluid for many people and that what sex a person identifies as may not always align with their biological sex. I can have a vagina and also sexually identify as a man and want to conform to gender norms for men in terms of clothes, demeanor, relationships, etc. But I'm still not biologically a man. And that's okay. It doesn't diminish my orientation.

What do you mean by conforming to gender norms for men in terms of demeanor and relationships? In this day and age, what are the gender norms for men in terms of demeanor and relationships? What are the gender norms for women in terms of demeanor and relationships?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW His partner is supportive and has publicly said as much. Lovingly

I don’t know his wife’s sexual orientation but maybe it’s more fluid and she doesn’t care what the gender presentation is as long as Elliot is happy. But what is a straight spouse suppose to do in that situation? I understand being compassionate and loving towards the transgender spouse but I can’t imagine staying with my husband if he transitioned. I really hope society becomes more accepting of people so these situations are less likely to happen. It can be devastating for a spouse to deal with especially if there are kids involved.

Leave. It would be horribly painful to have your world change so much, but you are not a bad person for not wanting to remain married. I would also think you’d have long-term counseling that could hopefully allow you to get to a place where there can be good co-parenting. And the kids absolutely need a good counselor.

I appreciate your comment. I haven’t confided in any friends or family yet and I can’t tell you how alone I feel in this situation. There is hardly any support online for women like me. I know my situation isn’t the same as Elliot’s marriage but I just wanted whoever is reading this to know that behind these brave and courageous transgender individuals there may be a spouse whose life is left in pieces.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing to me is that we only know what we know. Science has deemed XX as female, and XY as male, but we do know that even genetically, there are many intersex states. We don’t test people for their genetics unless there appears to be ambiguous genitalia or the like. We do know that hormone exposure in uterine can cause. We have no idea about if other genetic expressions can make a difference, because pretty much the only thing we base sex on is genitalia.

Science is science only as long as it’s known. That’s the cool thing. It’s constantly evolving and changing, and thinking we know now what we will know is just ignorant at best. So the people using “but, science” as an argument that trans people just have something wrong in their heads don’t understand science at all, IMHO. The world was flat until it wasn’t. Pluto was a planet until it wasn’t. You got sick from a miasma, until we knew about germs.

Not true. These days most women get routine genetic testing when they're pregnant, including to determine the chromosomal sex of the baby.

Right. And we know, through fetal genetic testing, that XX = female and XY = male. And genitalia aren't the only indicators of biological sex ... there are organs, like the uterus and then glands - prostate and mammary. Women have secondary sex characteristics like breasts.

Why are we debating science of sex? You can acknowledge the biology of sex and also recognize that sexual and gender identity are at the same time fluid for many people and that what sex a person identifies as may not always align with their biological sex. I can have a vagina and also sexually identify as a man and want to conform to gender norms for men in terms of clothes, demeanor, relationships, etc. But I'm still not biologically a man. And that's okay. It doesn't diminish my orientation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing to me is that we only know what we know. Science has deemed XX as female, and XY as male, but we do know that even genetically, there are many intersex states. We don’t test people for their genetics unless there appears to be ambiguous genitalia or the like. We do know that hormone exposure in uterine can cause. We have no idea about if other genetic expressions can make a difference, because pretty much the only thing we base sex on is genitalia.

Science is science only as long as it’s known. That’s the cool thing. It’s constantly evolving and changing, and thinking we know now what we will know is just ignorant at best. So the people using “but, science” as an argument that trans people just have something wrong in their heads don’t understand science at all, IMHO. The world was flat until it wasn’t. Pluto was a planet until it wasn’t. You got sick from a miasma, until we knew about germs.

Not true. These days most women get routine genetic testing when they're pregnant, including to determine the chromosomal sex of the baby.

Right. And we know, through fetal genetic testing, that XX = female and XY = male. And genitalia aren't the only indicators of biological sex ... there are organs, like the uterus and then glands - prostate and mammary. Women have secondary sex characteristics like breasts.

Why are we debating science of sex? You can acknowledge the biology of sex and also recognize that sexual and gender identity are at the same time fluid for many people and that what sex a person identifies as may not always align with their biological sex. I can have a vagina and also sexually identify as a man and want to conform to gender norms for men in terms of clothes, demeanor, relationships, etc. But I'm still not biologically a man. And that's okay. It doesn't diminish my orientation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing to me is that we only know what we know. Science has deemed XX as female, and XY as male, but we do know that even genetically, there are many intersex states. We don’t test people for their genetics unless there appears to be ambiguous genitalia or the like. We do know that hormone exposure in uterine can cause. We have no idea about if other genetic expressions can make a difference, because pretty much the only thing we base sex on is genitalia.

Science is science only as long as it’s known. That’s the cool thing. It’s constantly evolving and changing, and thinking we know now what we will know is just ignorant at best. So the people using “but, science” as an argument that trans people just have something wrong in their heads don’t understand science at all, IMHO. The world was flat until it wasn’t. Pluto was a planet until it wasn’t. You got sick from a miasma, until we knew about germs.

Not true. These days most women get routine genetic testing when they're pregnant, including to determine the chromosomal sex of the baby.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW His partner is supportive and has publicly said as much. Lovingly

I don’t know his wife’s sexual orientation but maybe it’s more fluid and she doesn’t care what the gender presentation is as long as Elliot is happy. But what is a straight spouse suppose to do in that situation? I understand being compassionate and loving towards the transgender spouse but I can’t imagine staying with my husband if he transitioned. I really hope society becomes more accepting of people so these situations are less likely to happen. It can be devastating for a spouse to deal with especially if there are kids involved.

Leave. It would be horribly painful to have your world change so much, but you are not a bad person for not wanting to remain married. I would also think you’d have long-term counseling that could hopefully allow you to get to a place where there can be good co-parenting. And the kids absolutely need a good counselor.

I appreciate your comment. I haven’t confided in any friends or family yet and I can’t tell you how alone I feel in this situation. There is hardly any support online for women like me. I know my situation isn’t the same as Elliot’s marriage but I just wanted whoever is reading this to know that behind these brave and courageous transgender individuals there may be a spouse whose life is left in pieces.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW His partner is supportive and has publicly said as much. Lovingly

I don’t know his wife’s sexual orientation but maybe it’s more fluid and she doesn’t care what the gender presentation is as long as Elliot is happy. But what is a straight spouse suppose to do in that situation? I understand being compassionate and loving towards the transgender spouse but I can’t imagine staying with my husband if he transitioned. I really hope society becomes more accepting of people so these situations are less likely to happen. It can be devastating for a spouse to deal with especially if there are kids involved.

Leave. It would be horribly painful to have your world change so much, but you are not a bad person for not wanting to remain married. I would also think you’d have long-term counseling that could hopefully allow you to get to a place where there can be good co-parenting. And the kids absolutely need a good counselor.

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone mentioned this yet if so sorry for repeating

Why are the pronouns he/they instead of he/him. What does this signify?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW His partner is supportive and has publicly said as much. Lovingly

I don’t know his wife’s sexual orientation but maybe it’s more fluid and she doesn’t care what the gender presentation is as long as Elliot is happy. But what is a straight spouse suppose to do in that situation? I understand being compassionate and loving towards the transgender spouse but I can’t imagine staying with my husband if he transitioned. I really hope society becomes more accepting of people so these situations are less likely to happen. It can be devastating for a spouse to deal with especially if there are kids involved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW His partner is supportive and has publicly said as much. Lovingly

I don’t know his wife’s sexual orientation but maybe it’s more fluid and she doesn’t care what the gender presentation is as long as Elliot is happy. But what is a straight spouse suppose to do in that situation? I understand being compassionate and loving towards the transgender spouse but I can’t imagine staying with my husband if he transitioned. I really hope society becomes more accepting of people so these situations are less likely to happen. It can be devastating for a spouse to deal with especially if there are kids involved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW His partner is supportive and has publicly said as much. Lovingly

I don’t know his wife’s sexual orientation but maybe it’s more fluid and she doesn’t care what the gender presentation is as long as Elliot is happy. But what is a straight spouse suppose to do in that situation? I understand being compassionate and loving towards the transgender spouse but I can’t imagine staying with my husband if he transitioned. I really hope society becomes more accepting of people so these situations are less likely to happen. It can be devastating for a spouse to deal with especially if there are kids involved.

Anonymous wrote:FWIW His partner is supportive and has publicly said as much. Lovingly