Didn't know that. I figured all bets were off when applying to Law School in terms of admission (no in-state quotas, etc.)

UVA Law is ranked over Duke. it’s easier to get into UVA law from UVA (with requisite stats and glowing recommendations) than Duke to Duke Law and DD doesn’t want Duke Law because of the expense

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother and I grew up in Virginia. We had the same amount of college savings. Mine covered four years of undergrad at UVA. His covered two years at Duke (this was 20+ years ago - disparity could be higher now). He had student loans. I did not. We both went to grad school - he went full-time for two years and added to student loans. I went part time while I worked full time, and also finished in two years. Again I had no debt.

We have both been equally successful and earn solid living in our respective fields. We both had very positive college experiences and got a very good higher education. He would choose the same again but so would I and it’s been refreshing to live a debt-free life. Aside from the college savings by our parents, we were not wealthy FYI. Solid middle class.

I would choose UVA in state every time unless there is some compelling reason to choose Duke (specific academic program, sports recruitment etc).

I have to agree. We sent both children instate. Both graduated with no debt except the $5,000 unsubsidized loans (I think they should have some skin in the game). No fancy cars. No fancy apartments. One is now working in her field full time. The other is at UVA applying to grad schools ($$$). Based upon his friends' performance, the UVA students are doing very well getting into the grad programs of their choosing. Since we banked the difference (between in-state and private) and because the stock market has done so well, we can pay for grad programs for both children without them incurring massive amounts of debt. This is critical inasmuch as law schools like Duke are now over $103 a year x 3 years.

Yes! Just say no to debt. Glad there is a strong in state option. While Duke is a STELLAR school and FAR more selective than UVA (Duke has much stronger undergraduate programs in STEM and Social Sciences than Virginia) UVA Law is the Crown Jewel of the University and IMHO has an edge over Duke School of Law.

Anonymous wrote:If your child is considering prelaw the stats that matter are 1) GPA 2) LSAT (I guess GRE now too). So Duke is not worth it unless it has some crazy inflation over UVA.

. plus 1

If your child is considering prelaw the stats that matter are 1) GPA 2) LSAT (I guess GRE now too). So Duke is not worth it unless it has some crazy inflation over UVA.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they come from NOVA, they are from one of the richest counties in the country, so I would not say they are hurting for money.

Many kids who went to UVA from DC's school applied to HYPSM or whatever it is, and UVA was their safety. They had the money to go to a private university but didn't get in. So they got a new Jeep to drive to C-ville in.

Well, I would bet that a significantly higher percentage of Duke students will go to high end graduate schools than UVA students.

I'm not so sure of that. The top students are going to excel wherever they are. A lot of the Duke athletes go straight to Wall Street. My UVA DD is applying to Oxford for an MPhil. In her immediate circle of friends, she has six UVA grads at Oxford and Cambridge - two DPhils, four MPhils - two in Theology and one in Intellectual History. Those are just the ones she knows of.

There are data points out there. There were 13 Duke students at Yale Law in their last report. There were 6 from UVA. Given the size differential, that means over 5X as many from Duke on a per capita basis.

The key question is whether or not a student accepted to both schools is more likely to be accepted at top graduate schools based on their choice. My view is that there is probably some benefit in graduate school admissions in attending the more elite school, and the primary reason for that is actually that they tend to be the most lenient grading schools (i.e. you will have a somewhat higher GPA from a school perceived as more prestigious). The downside of course may be higher undergraduate cost.

Anonymous wrote:My brother and I grew up in Virginia. We had the same amount of college savings. Mine covered four years of undergrad at UVA. His covered two years at Duke (this was 20+ years ago - disparity could be higher now). He had student loans. I did not. We both went to grad school - he went full-time for two years and added to student loans. I went part time while I worked full time, and also finished in two years. Again I had no debt.

We have both been equally successful and earn solid living in our respective fields. We both had very positive college experiences and got a very good higher education. He would choose the same again but so would I and it’s been refreshing to live a debt-free life. Aside from the college savings by our parents, we were not wealthy FYI. Solid middle class.

I would choose UVA in state every time unless there is some compelling reason to choose Duke (specific academic program, sports recruitment etc).

I have to agree. We sent both children instate. Both graduated with no debt except the $5,000 unsubsidized loans (I think they should have some skin in the game). No fancy cars. No fancy apartments. One is now working in her field full time. The other is at UVA applying to grad schools ($$$). Based upon his friends' performance, the UVA students are doing very well getting into the grad programs of their choosing. Since we banked the difference (between in-state and private) and because the stock market has done so well, we can pay for grad programs for both children without them incurring massive amounts of debt. This is critical inasmuch as law schools like Duke are now over $103 a year x 3 years.

My brother and I grew up in Virginia. We had the same amount of college savings. Mine covered four years of undergrad at UVA. His covered two years at Duke (this was 20+ years ago - disparity could be higher now). He had student loans. I did not. We both went to grad school - he went full-time for two years and added to student loans. I went part time while I worked full time, and also finished in two years. Again I had no debt.

We have both been equally successful and earn solid living in our respective fields. We both had very positive college experiences and got a very good higher education. He would choose the same again but so would I and it’s been refreshing to live a debt-free life. Aside from the college savings by our parents, we were not wealthy FYI. Solid middle class.

I would choose UVA in state every time unless there is some compelling reason to choose Duke (specific academic program, sports recruitment etc).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they come from NOVA, they are from one of the richest counties in the country, so I would not say they are hurting for money.

Many kids who went to UVA from DC's school applied to HYPSM or whatever it is, and UVA was their safety. They had the money to go to a private university but didn't get in. So they got a new Jeep to drive to C-ville in.

Well, I would bet that a significantly higher percentage of Duke students will go to high end graduate schools than UVA students.

I'm not so sure of that. The top students are going to excel wherever they are. A lot of the Duke athletes go straight to Wall Street. My UVA DD is applying to Oxford for an MPhil. In her immediate circle of friends, she has six UVA grads at Oxford and Cambridge - two DPhils, four MPhils - two in Theology and one in Intellectual History. Those are just the ones she knows of.

Anonymous wrote:If they come from NOVA, they are from one of the richest counties in the country, so I would not say they are hurting for money.

Many kids who went to UVA from DC's school applied to HYPSM or whatever it is, and UVA was their safety. They had the money to go to a private university but didn't get in. So they got a new Jeep to drive to C-ville in.

Well, I would bet that a significantly higher percentage of Duke students will go to high end graduate schools than UVA students.

If they come from NOVA, they are from one of the richest counties in the country, so I would not say they are hurting for money.

Many kids who went to UVA from DC's school applied to HYPSM or whatever it is, and UVA was their safety. They had the money to go to a private university but didn't get in. So they got a new Jeep to drive to C-ville in.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Duke has a greater "prestige" factor and agree with other posts that your child will rub elbows with many more rich kids there. IS it worth the extra money- not sure.
Also Duke has a 6% acceptance rate so this is really not something to fret over unless your child gets in. He or she is statistically much more likely to get into UVA -even in-state from NoVa.

I disagree: It now takes a higher GPA and higher test scores to get into UVA over Duke

Ha ha no

Haha Yes. The average high school GPA of Duke entering students is only a 4.06. The average GPA of entering UVA students is 4.27.

You cannot compare weighted GPAs across schools as weighting schemes are not standardized. Test scores are a better measure.

This is bc Duke has way more private school kids with unweighted GPA's. I went there and it's FULL of privilege. It's like a country club. SO MANY KIDS FROM ELITE PRIVATES AND BOARDING SCHOOLS. Not a good experience for kids on financial aid. Beautiful place, excellent education but not
for everyone.

Isn’t that also the “scene” at UVA? Yacht club / ski chalet kids that wear dinner jackets to football games?

No, it's not. I teach there. It has exactly what you would expect the student body to be for a state school - a healthy mix of all economic levels, diversity, international students, low-income, URM, first-generation, etc. etc.

That’s refreshing. It’s always had the reputation of being a School for wealthy “good ol’ boys” . Not very diverse and distinctly Southern. What do you teach at UVA and how engaged academically/intellectually are you students?

Politics. I like the UVA students. Most talk in class, which is nice if you are a professor. I don't find it to be "Southern" at all. In fact, I think you would be hard-pressed to find a true southern accent around campus. There's a good blend of students from all economic levels, international students and OOS students. I laugh when I see the "rich" and "redneck" comments because neither are true. The bulk of the students come from NOVA, which is neither always rich and definitely not redneck. Many of the students are at UVA precisely because of finances -- the parents can't afford the $80K a year that Duke or other slacs cost and the students' value reflect the family's need to be financially smart. The new President is trying to increase the number of low-income and first-generation students. We already have the Blue Ridge Scholars program which targets financially needy students. https://news.virginia.edu/content/first-full-class-blue-ridge-scholars-set-walk-lawn. Sometimes the Jefferson Program allows a non-wealthy student who would otherwise attend an Ivy to attend UVA (that's separate from the University and requires a separate application). Each professor is given a fund to be used to take students out to lunch or dinner. That encourages a lot of give and take. Seminars in the second, third and fourth years also provide a lot of discussion between students and professors. I like writing letters of recommendation to grad school for my students. The "good ol' boys" era left in the 50s,60s and 70s (UVA, believe it or not, was all men until 1970; I don't know why. Of course there are the occasional rich kid in the Greek system who drink too much and drive better cars than faculty but they go off and do their thing on Greek row. Most students are sufficiently mature to select their own friends. And there are over 600 clubs so there is something for everyone.

Perhaps it’s gone through some major transformation. There still seems to be an overall impression that UVA students predominantly come from wealthy families. There’s a lot of (old) wealth in the City of Charlottesville. Glad to hear it’s not a school of trust fund frat brats.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Duke has a greater "prestige" factor and agree with other posts that your child will rub elbows with many more rich kids there. IS it worth the extra money- not sure.
Also Duke has a 6% acceptance rate so this is really not something to fret over unless your child gets in. He or she is statistically much more likely to get into UVA -even in-state from NoVa.

I disagree: It now takes a higher GPA and higher test scores to get into UVA over Duke

Ha ha no

Haha Yes. The average high school GPA of Duke entering students is only a 4.06. The average GPA of entering UVA students is 4.27.

You cannot compare weighted GPAs across schools as weighting schemes are not standardized. Test scores are a better measure.

This is bc Duke has way more private school kids with unweighted GPA's. I went there and it's FULL of privilege. It's like a country club. SO MANY KIDS FROM ELITE PRIVATES AND BOARDING SCHOOLS. Not a good experience for kids on financial aid. Beautiful place, excellent education but not
for everyone.

Isn’t that also the “scene” at UVA? Yacht club / ski chalet kids that wear dinner jackets to football games?

No, it's not. I teach there. It has exactly what you would expect the student body to be for a state school - a healthy mix of all economic levels, diversity, international students, low-income, URM, first-generation, etc. etc.

That’s refreshing. It’s always had the reputation of being a School for wealthy “good ol’ boys” . Not very diverse and distinctly Southern. What do you teach at UVA and how engaged academically/intellectually are you students?

Politics. I like the UVA students. Most talk in class, which is nice if you are a professor. I don't find it to be "Southern" at all. In fact, I think you would be hard-pressed to find a true southern accent around campus. There's a good blend of students from all economic levels, international students and OOS students. I laugh when I see the "rich" and "redneck" comments because neither are true. The bulk of the students come from NOVA, which is neither always rich and definitely not redneck. Many of the students are at UVA precisely because of finances -- the parents can't afford the $80K a year that Duke or other slacs cost and the students' value reflect the family's need to be financially smart. The new President is trying to increase the number of low-income and first-generation students. We already have the Blue Ridge Scholars program which targets financially needy students. https://news.virginia.edu/content/first-full-class-blue-ridge-scholars-set-walk-lawn. Sometimes the Jefferson Program allows a non-wealthy student who would otherwise attend an Ivy to attend UVA (that's separate from the University and requires a separate application). Each professor is given a fund to be used to take students out to lunch or dinner. That encourages a lot of give and take. Seminars in the second, third and fourth years also provide a lot of discussion between students and professors. I like writing letters of recommendation to grad school for my students. The "good ol' boys" era left in the 50s,60s and 70s (UVA, believe it or not, was all men until 1970; I don't know why. Of course there are the occasional rich kid in the Greek system who drink too much and drive better cars than faculty but they go off and do their thing on Greek row. Most students are sufficiently mature to select their own friends. And there are over 600 clubs so there is something for everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Duke has a greater "prestige" factor and agree with other posts that your child will rub elbows with many more rich kids there. IS it worth the extra money- not sure.
Also Duke has a 6% acceptance rate so this is really not something to fret over unless your child gets in. He or she is statistically much more likely to get into UVA -even in-state from NoVa.

I disagree: It now takes a higher GPA and higher test scores to get into UVA over Duke

Ha ha no

Haha Yes. The average high school GPA of Duke entering students is only a 4.06. The average GPA of entering UVA students is 4.27.

You cannot compare weighted GPAs across schools as weighting schemes are not standardized. Test scores are a better measure.

This is bc Duke has way more private school kids with unweighted GPA's. I went there and it's FULL of privilege. It's like a country club. SO MANY KIDS FROM ELITE PRIVATES AND BOARDING SCHOOLS. Not a good experience for kids on financial aid. Beautiful place, excellent education but not
for everyone.

Isn’t that also the “scene” at UVA? Yacht club / ski chalet kids that wear dinner jackets to football games?

No, it's not. I teach there. It has exactly what you would expect the student body to be for a state school - a healthy mix of all economic levels, diversity, international students, low-income, URM, first-generation, etc. etc.

That’s refreshing. It’s always had the reputation of being a School for wealthy “good ol’ boys” . Not very diverse and distinctly Southern. What do you teach at UVA and how engaged academically/intellectually are you students?

Duke is like a new Ivy. But if you are planning professional school after UVA might be a better choice financially.