Anonymous
02/07/2024 08:29
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
WASP culture:
1. Country Clubs in most American cities
2. Balls that present daughters of the WASP families to society
3. Junior League
4. The Society page of most city newspapers that show photos of WASPs at their charity events but never actually working at any of the charities. They're board members or benefactors.
5. Art galleries and art auctions. Jewish families of means, however, really found a place in collecting art and supporting the arts.
6. Opera, symphony, ballet, conservatory, repertory theaters- usually WASPs
As a Catholic who supports labor unions, I don't know how some Americans seem to long for the days of royal monarchs like in the UK, and yet we fail to acknowledge the charitable giving of the very wealthy WASP leaders of our country's past. And the WASP "Men who built America" did at least concern themselves somewhat with public libraries and literacy and education.
1. Country Clubs in most American cities
2. Balls that present daughters of the WASP families to society
3. Junior League
4. The Society page of most city newspapers that show photos of WASPs at their charity events but never actually working at any of the charities. They're board members or benefactors.
5. Art galleries and art auctions. Jewish families of means, however, really found a place in collecting art and supporting the arts.
6. Opera, symphony, ballet, conservatory, repertory theaters- usually WASPs
As a Catholic who supports labor unions, I don't know how some Americans seem to long for the days of royal monarchs like in the UK, and yet we fail to acknowledge the charitable giving of the very wealthy WASP leaders of our country's past. And the WASP "Men who built America" did at least concern themselves somewhat with public libraries and literacy and education.
Anonymous
02/07/2024 06:42
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Country clubs are bastions of WASP culture.
Anonymous
12/08/2023 18:49
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Northern Italians have blue eyes, sure. But they are not blonde except in German pockets. Most of the men over forty are bald altogether. And they don’t look like the Swedes you seem to be implying they look like. I feel like most of them looked a lot like Steve Buscemi (who is actually half Sicilian and Half English and Dutch), but you seem to think they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. They didn’t. And I’m going with the men because god knows the women dyed their hair all sorts of colors that did not match their skin tones.
As for the Jews who look like Italians, I meant Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t know a single Sephardic Jew to compare Italians to. The actors I mentioned were all Ashkenazi. In fact, I found Jews and Italians so similar looking that I looked into it. You are actually related according to numerous academic geneticists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/ashkenazi-jewish-women-descended-mostly-from-italian-converts-new-study-asserts/
I hate to break it to you paisan.
I'm the PP you are responding to and I'm Scottish and Norwegian.
And you really don’t think that Joe Pesci and Harvey Keitel aren’t completely interchangeable looks wise? Are you a blind Scot/Norwegian?
Even if they do, a single example does not mean it is true in general. Extrapolating from the specific to the general about people is usually called stereotyping. But I guess it's fine in this case, amiright?
I’m not saying that every single Italian and every single Jew looks the same, but there’s a large overlap in their appearances. Yes, sometimes I see someone like Ralph Macchio and no he has to be Italian, not Jewish, but often times I really cannot tell the difference and who is who. (I’m not even getting to coloring because I don’t want to get into all of the blonde haired blue eyes Italians and Jews everyone knows. No one is saying they don’t exist. I’m saying that despite the variation in coloring, their features still look MEDITERRANEAN.) You can add Greeks to it, too. Because they all look Mediterranean. It’s not a stereotype. It’s a fact. That is where they are originally from (the Ashkenazi Jews, too). I don’t know why you find this fact offensive. Do Mediterranean people offend you or something?
There's a word for people this obsessed with racial features.
I am waiting for her to get her head calipers.
Anonymous
12/08/2023 18:39
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:I live on the Main Line and it’s like a WASP petting zoo.
WASPiness is alive and well on the Main Line - and also - in pockets of Delaware - like Greenville and Centerville - the old DuPont stomping grounds. If you want to see the real deal, check out the "volunteers" at Winterthur gift shop or the Brandywine River Museum....
Anonymous
12/08/2023 10:13
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Northern Italians have blue eyes, sure. But they are not blonde except in German pockets. Most of the men over forty are bald altogether. And they don’t look like the Swedes you seem to be implying they look like. I feel like most of them looked a lot like Steve Buscemi (who is actually half Sicilian and Half English and Dutch), but you seem to think they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. They didn’t. And I’m going with the men because god knows the women dyed their hair all sorts of colors that did not match their skin tones.
As for the Jews who look like Italians, I meant Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t know a single Sephardic Jew to compare Italians to. The actors I mentioned were all Ashkenazi. In fact, I found Jews and Italians so similar looking that I looked into it. You are actually related according to numerous academic geneticists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/ashkenazi-jewish-women-descended-mostly-from-italian-converts-new-study-asserts/
I hate to break it to you paisan.
I'm the PP you are responding to and I'm Scottish and Norwegian.
And you really don’t think that Joe Pesci and Harvey Keitel aren’t completely interchangeable looks wise? Are you a blind Scot/Norwegian?
Even if they do, a single example does not mean it is true in general. Extrapolating from the specific to the general about people is usually called stereotyping. But I guess it's fine in this case, amiright?
I’m not saying that every single Italian and every single Jew looks the same, but there’s a large overlap in their appearances. Yes, sometimes I see someone like Ralph Macchio and no he has to be Italian, not Jewish, but often times I really cannot tell the difference and who is who. (I’m not even getting to coloring because I don’t want to get into all of the blonde haired blue eyes Italians and Jews everyone knows. No one is saying they don’t exist. I’m saying that despite the variation in coloring, their features still look MEDITERRANEAN.) You can add Greeks to it, too. Because they all look Mediterranean. It’s not a stereotype. It’s a fact. That is where they are originally from (the Ashkenazi Jews, too). I don’t know why you find this fact offensive. Do Mediterranean people offend you or something?
There's a word for people this obsessed with racial features.
Anonymous
12/08/2023 08:33
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Northern Italians have blue eyes, sure. But they are not blonde except in German pockets. Most of the men over forty are bald altogether. And they don’t look like the Swedes you seem to be implying they look like. I feel like most of them looked a lot like Steve Buscemi (who is actually half Sicilian and Half English and Dutch), but you seem to think they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. They didn’t. And I’m going with the men because god knows the women dyed their hair all sorts of colors that did not match their skin tones.
As for the Jews who look like Italians, I meant Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t know a single Sephardic Jew to compare Italians to. The actors I mentioned were all Ashkenazi. In fact, I found Jews and Italians so similar looking that I looked into it. You are actually related according to numerous academic geneticists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/ashkenazi-jewish-women-descended-mostly-from-italian-converts-new-study-asserts/
I hate to break it to you paisan.
I'm the PP you are responding to and I'm Scottish and Norwegian.
And you really don’t think that Joe Pesci and Harvey Keitel aren’t completely interchangeable looks wise? Are you a blind Scot/Norwegian?
Even if they do, a single example does not mean it is true in general. Extrapolating from the specific to the general about people is usually called stereotyping. But I guess it's fine in this case, amiright?
I’m not saying that every single Italian and every single Jew looks the same, but there’s a large overlap in their appearances. Yes, sometimes I see someone like Ralph Macchio and no he has to be Italian, not Jewish, but often times I really cannot tell the difference and who is who. (I’m not even getting to coloring because I don’t want to get into all of the blonde haired blue eyes Italians and Jews everyone knows. No one is saying they don’t exist. I’m saying that despite the variation in coloring, their features still look MEDITERRANEAN.) You can add Greeks to it, too. Because they all look Mediterranean. It’s not a stereotype. It’s a fact. That is where they are originally from (the Ashkenazi Jews, too). I don’t know why you find this fact offensive. Do Mediterranean people offend you or something?
Anonymous
12/08/2023 00:51
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
My husband is Ashkenazi Jewish, Eastern Europe, and he has blue eyes, curly hair, normal size nose (another stereotype someone will probably bring up). Our kids have blue eyes, I have green and are fair skinned.
This whole thing is cracking me up because I grew outside of Boston, went to college in Boston, went to Martha’s Vineyard every summer and Maine. And the misinformation is running wild.
My ancestors born in New England are almost evenly Irish and English. In my family, The English came over very early, the Irish came over during the potato famine.
In my years meandering around New England I cannot recognize a wasp. Most early settlers didn’t have money. I have one mayflower ancestor family who is land rich down the Cape and money poor. Soon enough the English, Irish, French Canadian, and others were marrying each other. seriously how many English Americans married only English immigrants. Wasp culture appears to be gone.
There’s one example of a true wasp - former Governor of Massachusetts William Weld. Otherwise maybe they just don’t show themselves to us regular folk.
Anonymous
12/07/2023 23:53
Subject: Re:Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I grew up in New England and this was a really big thing for my grandparents (and presumably their parents). They were not wasps. And boy did they feel it. One of the reasons I wanted to leave New England was to get away from this narrowness. Wasp culture is one variation of white privilege. Among many of us who arrived after the mayflower, other forms of this privilege exist. For example, while my grandfather felt discriminated against and remembered the "Irish need not apply" signs in Boston, it is crazy for me to feel any kind of ethnic discrimination at this point. I went to their schools and I work in a field they dominated for decades, if not centuries.
I'm glad this has changed. There are some things about "wasp culture" that are useful - like being frugal, not talking about money. Good manners. (But, remember -- They used a yardstick of who your family was and when they got here instead. So still pressure to measure up, show status.) Preppy style is cute and fun and adopted around the world from Japan to Italy. I have yet, though, to really see the utility of the mindset overall - it is fundamentally exclusive and limiting.
I do have one question - do they all still vote republican? Two summers ago, we were on nantucket and four young men wearing navy trump t-shirts paraded around. It was distressing to see how many old boys on the street (and in the restaurant where they ate) chatted them up and welcomed them with open arms.
All to say, I don't feel that my ancestors, who cleaned houses, cared for grounds, sorted the mail, and worked in mills had any less to do with building this country (and are any less distinguished) than the mythical WASP forebearers and "founding fathers" (another crazy term). There is great dignity in doing one's work, caring for one's family and making opportunity for others. And furthermore, the cotton that powered the mills in New England that the WASPs owned was picked by slaves in the South.
It is total insanity to glorify this culture.
Well, you know, the Boston Irish weren't exactly nice to the African Americans either. While the liberal WASPs were behind much of the New Deal and supporting the 1960s Civil Rights movement and integrating their private schools, the Boston Irish were rioting at busing AA students into their neighborhood schools.....
Just pointing this out to show the division of cultural groups into all good and all bad is pointless.
That’s because the liberal wasps, as you put it, (I don’t think it’s a thing anymore), didn’t live in Boston. If they did they went to private school or their house in the suburbs. If they wanted to open up their public schools or private schools to city kids it would be a different story. And rich people don’t always use private schools, they live in towns that have some of the top public schools in the country. The bussing was about White public housing and Black public housing students having to take a bus to a different shitty school.
The wasps were racist. Jewish people and Irish people had to start their own country clubs at one time because the old country clubs wouldn’t admit them. The Country Club didn’t let Jews into the club until the 70s.
Anonymous
12/07/2023 20:11
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This thread is crazy town.
There's a certain subset of posters on DCUM who aspire to be considered WASPs.
It's really bizarre, considering how boring and lame WASPs are, generally speaking.
I made the terrible mistake of clicking on this thread.
Goodness.
Just want to point out that WASP - however you choose to define it - hasn't been an aspirational goal since about 1987.
WASPs and their culture still provide outstanding comic relief though.
My favorite WASP joke:
Why don't WASPs have roaches? Because they don't have any food.
Anonymous
12/07/2023 20:09
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This thread is crazy town.
There's a certain subset of posters on DCUM who aspire to be considered WASPs.
It's really bizarre, considering how boring and lame WASPs are, generally speaking.
I made the terrible mistake of clicking on this thread.
Goodness.
Just want to point out that WASP - however you choose to define it - hasn't been an aspirational goal since about 1987.
WASPs and their culture still provide outstanding comic relief though.
Anonymous
12/07/2023 20:06
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
With the current president and Supreme Court, the Catholics seem to be coming for the WASPs in DC.
Anonymous
12/07/2023 19:23
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This thread is crazy town.
There's a certain subset of posters on DCUM who aspire to be considered WASPs.
It's really bizarre, considering how boring and lame WASPs are, generally speaking.
I made the terrible mistake of clicking on this thread.
Goodness.
Just want to point out that WASP - however you choose to define it - hasn't been an aspirational goal since about 1987.
Anonymous
12/07/2023 19:05
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Northern Italians have blue eyes, sure. But they are not blonde except in German pockets. Most of the men over forty are bald altogether. And they don’t look like the Swedes you seem to be implying they look like. I feel like most of them looked a lot like Steve Buscemi (who is actually half Sicilian and Half English and Dutch), but you seem to think they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. They didn’t. And I’m going with the men because god knows the women dyed their hair all sorts of colors that did not match their skin tones.
As for the Jews who look like Italians, I meant Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t know a single Sephardic Jew to compare Italians to. The actors I mentioned were all Ashkenazi. In fact, I found Jews and Italians so similar looking that I looked into it. You are actually related according to numerous academic geneticists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/ashkenazi-jewish-women-descended-mostly-from-italian-converts-new-study-asserts/
I hate to break it to you paisan.
I'm the PP you are responding to and I'm Scottish and Norwegian.
And you really don’t think that Joe Pesci and Harvey Keitel aren’t completely interchangeable looks wise? Are you a blind Scot/Norwegian?
Even if they do, a single example does not mean it is true in general. Extrapolating from the specific to the general about people is usually called stereotyping. But I guess it's fine in this case, amiright?
Anonymous
12/07/2023 18:06
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This thread is crazy town.
There’s a thread in politics about why foreigners ridicule Americans. This thread here is exhibit a on how it’s well deserved.
I mean if you think Americans are more obsessed with class more than other cultures, you are pretty sheltered.
Anonymous
12/07/2023 17:53
Subject: Is “WASP” culture still a thing?
Anonymous wrote:This thread is crazy town.
There's a certain subset of posters on DCUM who aspire to be considered WASPs.
It's really bizarre, considering how boring and lame WASPs are, generally speaking.