Anonymous wrote:I haven't seen anyone discuss the school size as part of this. At a school with one to two classes per grade and 20 kids in those classes, just a very small number of kids can skew the statistics significantly. Is this somehow addressed?

DCPS has the same class size at all schools, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest that people not hide behind the protection of anonymous posting to say things they likely wouldn't say if their names were attributed. My comment is specifically directed at those equating success solely to race. Trying to explain/justify scores and make comparisons based on the student racial make-up is insulting and wrong. I don't feel a need to go through every post on this particular thread that has done this, but there were a few. I don't even assume that people of color are not guilty of this by the way. I'm a person of color and I've heard it, but it's not truly race in my experience. It's economics that create the differences. Someone else mentioned that poverty is the culprit and ultimately root of the disparities. I tend to agree. I just urge everyone to be more mindful of that - even when posting with anonymity.

I don't assume people are attributing the differences to melanin or melanin-related average IQ. Clearly, culture -- influenced by poverty and other factors -- and behavior (including choices about marriage and family structure) are implicated, especially as they relate to attitudes towards education.

100% agree it's at-risk

Also in DC there are almost no at-risk white folks which is why people take the racial shortcut

I was trying to find data on how multiple sub-groups fared - at-risk male, black male, etc - and came across figures I hadn't seen before for at-risk whites in DC. There were 81 at-risk whites reported in the 2018 public school report card data. 28 had a median growth percentile for math (MGP). For the 28, their MGP for math was 27. For 'not at-risk white', their MGP was 61. At-risk makes a huge difference on performance - no surprise there.

I haven't seen anyone discuss the school size as part of this. At a school with one to two classes per grade and 20 kids in those classes, just a very small number of kids can skew the statistics significantly. Is this somehow addressed?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I would say some of it is race. Trying to not get longwinded about it, non-white students are being educated into a culture that is not their own in many respects, I think especially with regard to English. I feel like what made me good at testing was an acculturation into a certain model of reading and 'good' English usage (I'm a white man) and if you don't feel like that's for you - I think that ends up creating a wedge. Just one aspect, but part of the mix, in my opinion.


What about Asian immigrants scoring so well on verbal SAT? Or South East Asians dominating spelling bees?


Or African immigrants. I don't buy this argument at all.

All of those above-referenced groups, even though they may speak their birth language at home, are learning "proper" English grammar in school. They are not being exposed to grammatically improper English from birth in the home environment. Am from a part of the south where there is a lot of rural white poverty and those kids ---who say "ain't", "hit don't" and "thar"---have the same issues on standardized tests as lower SES urban AA kids.

I too come from an area where improper grammar is rampant in the local dialect without regard to race ("Where ya goin' at?" instead of "Where are you going?"), and it is true that unless you are in a school that actively "unteaches" you the bad grammar while also teaching proper English grammar and usage, the dialect has a huge negative impact on standardized tests.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I would say some of it is race. Trying to not get longwinded about it, non-white students are being educated into a culture that is not their own in many respects, I think especially with regard to English. I feel like what made me good at testing was an acculturation into a certain model of reading and 'good' English usage (I'm a white man) and if you don't feel like that's for you - I think that ends up creating a wedge. Just one aspect, but part of the mix, in my opinion.


What about Asian immigrants scoring so well on verbal SAT? Or South East Asians dominating spelling bees?


Or African immigrants. I don't buy this argument at all.

All of those above-referenced groups, even though they may speak their birth language at home, are learning "proper" English grammar in school. They are not being exposed to grammatically improper English from birth in the home environment. Am from a part of the south where there is a lot of rural white poverty and those kids ---who say "ain't", "hit don't" and "thar"---have the same issues on standardized tests as lower SES urban AA kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hello 50 point achievement gap at its.

It's shocking really.

Grade Black White 4th 60/53 95/86 5th 23/9 72/67 6th 48/9 100/67 7th 23/0 too few to report 8th 36/36 too few

Those 5th-7th math scores are horrible. We left ITS in part because, in the higher grades, there's too much focus on SJ political stuff (IMO) and not enough on core material and critical thinking. Plus, who wants their DC in a math class where NOT ONE other child is on grade level. Grim.

I don’t understand this post. Which grade doesn’t have 1 on grade level in math?

7th grade - 0%.

7th grade is 22% on grade level. They are also 48% that score 3, 4, 5. Also, you should note that last year’s 7th grade only had like 20 kids so not the best sample.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say some of it is race. Trying to not get longwinded about it, non-white students are being educated into a culture that is not their own in many respects, I think especially with regard to English. I feel like what made me good at testing was an acculturation into a certain model of reading and 'good' English usage (I'm a white man) and if you don't feel like that's for you - I think that ends up creating a wedge. Just one aspect, but part of the mix, in my opinion.

What about Asian immigrants scoring so well on verbal SAT? Or South East Asians dominating spelling bees?

Or African immigrants. I don't buy this argument at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hello 50 point achievement gap at its.

It's shocking really.

Grade Black White 4th 60/53 95/86 5th 23/9 72/67 6th 48/9 100/67 7th 23/0 too few to report 8th 36/36 too few

Those 5th-7th math scores are horrible. We left ITS in part because, in the higher grades, there's too much focus on SJ political stuff (IMO) and not enough on core material and critical thinking. Plus, who wants their DC in a math class where NOT ONE other child is on grade level. Grim.

I don’t understand this post. Which grade doesn’t have 1 on grade level in math?

7th grade - 0%.

Anonymous wrote:I would say some of it is race. Trying to not get longwinded about it, non-white students are being educated into a culture that is not their own in many respects, I think especially with regard to English. I feel like what made me good at testing was an acculturation into a certain model of reading and 'good' English usage (I'm a white man) and if you don't feel like that's for you - I think that ends up creating a wedge. Just one aspect, but part of the mix, in my opinion.

What about Asian immigrants scoring so well on verbal SAT? Or South East Asians dominating spelling bees?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest that people not hide behind the protection of anonymous posting to say things they likely wouldn't say if their names were attributed. My comment is specifically directed at those equating success solely to race. Trying to explain/justify scores and make comparisons based on the student racial make-up is insulting and wrong. I don't feel a need to go through every post on this particular thread that has done this, but there were a few. I don't even assume that people of color are not guilty of this by the way. I'm a person of color and I've heard it, but it's not truly race in my experience. It's economics that create the differences. Someone else mentioned that poverty is the culprit and ultimately root of the disparities. I tend to agree. I just urge everyone to be more mindful of that - even when posting with anonymity.

I disagree with you fundamentally. DC is a very dynamic city that makes it hard to compare apples to apples due to variables in class and race (i.e., no low income white students in the system).

A brown person named Andrea

I agree with the top posting. It’s not race. It’s SES. In DC, it just happens that SES correlates closely with race so people make it about race when the fundamental issue is SES. If you are a middle class or UMC AA person, your child will likely do better than if you are a lower SES AA. Sure a few outliers but as a generalization, true. It’s class, SES, not race.


Singed a minority but not AA parent.

Sadly, the data doesn't always support this. Example: ITS's 50 point achievement gap in some grades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hello 50 point achievement gap at its.

It's shocking really.

Grade Black White 4th 60/53 95/86 5th 23/9 72/67 6th 48/9 100/67 7th 23/0 too few to report 8th 36/36 too few

Those 5th-7th math scores are horrible. We left ITS in part because, in the higher grades, there's too much focus on SJ political stuff (IMO) and not enough on core material and critical thinking. Plus, who wants their DC in a math class where NOT ONE other child is on grade level. Grim.

I don’t understand this post. Which grade doesn’t have 1 on grade level in math?

I would say some of it is race. Trying to not get longwinded about it, non-white students are being educated into a culture that is not their own in many respects, I think especially with regard to English. I feel like what made me good at testing was an acculturation into a certain model of reading and 'good' English usage (I'm a white man) and if you don't feel like that's for you - I think that ends up creating a wedge. Just one aspect, but part of the mix, in my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Creative Minds continues its downward spiral. Not at-risk scores a whopping 41/48 compared to their at-risk population of 14/16.

Their middle school results dragged down the numbers for the elementary. 3rd and 4th grade results are improved over last year, and math scores are really good - not a surprise as the 3rd and 4th grade math teachers last year were wonderful.

Less than half of the non at risk kids passed. Spin it how you wish but don’t blame middle school kids.

The 2019 scores are overall slightly better than last year's How is that "continuing its downward spiral"?

That can be explained by the increase in white students into testing grades (ie, 3 more passing kids).

Put it this way: Creative Minds, a school with 1/3 white kids, scored 34% in ELA. District wide is 37%. Their white students scored 61%, what’s the DC average, like 81%? Grade by grade, 17-26% scored a 1 on ELA. These are not kids that are 1-2 questions away from getting a 4.

Wow. To dig a little deeper, I assessed CMI vs ITS by combining the scores of 3+ (to account for the almost passing group). Also, the two schools opened around same time and have similar demographics which both serving PK3-8th. ITS looks pretty good. For the equity concerns posted up thread, the push seems to need to be more to get the at-risk or minority kids from scoring a 3 to a 4 which is a lot easier than going from a 1 to a 4.

ELA scoring 3+:

ITS
3rd 77%
4th 95% (including a whopping 30% that scored a 5)
5th 75%
6th 80%
7th 69%
8th 67%

CMI
3rd 63% (none that scored 5, while 17% scored a 1)
4th 68% (5% that scored 5, while 18% scored a 1)
5th 55% (none that scored 5, while 28% scored a 1)
6th 54% (none that scored 5, while 11% scored 1)
7th 64% (3% that scored 5, while 26% scored 1)
8th 48% (11% that scored 5, but 22% scored a 1)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest that people not hide behind the protection of anonymous posting to say things they likely wouldn't say if their names were attributed. My comment is specifically directed at those equating success solely to race. Trying to explain/justify scores and make comparisons based on the student racial make-up is insulting and wrong. I don't feel a need to go through every post on this particular thread that has done this, but there were a few. I don't even assume that people of color are not guilty of this by the way. I'm a person of color and I've heard it, but it's not truly race in my experience. It's economics that create the differences. Someone else mentioned that poverty is the culprit and ultimately root of the disparities. I tend to agree. I just urge everyone to be more mindful of that - even when posting with anonymity.

I disagree with you fundamentally. DC is a very dynamic city that makes it hard to compare apples to apples due to variables in class and race (i.e., no low income white students in the system).

A brown person named Andrea

I agree with the top posting. It’s not race. It’s SES. In DC, it just happens that SES correlates closely with race so people make it about race when the fundamental issue is SES. If you are a middle class or UMC AA person, your child will likely do better than if you are a lower SES AA. Sure a few outliers but as a generalization, true. It’s class, SES, not race.


Singed a minority but not AA parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest that people not hide behind the protection of anonymous posting to say things they likely wouldn't say if their names were attributed. My comment is specifically directed at those equating success solely to race. Trying to explain/justify scores and make comparisons based on the student racial make-up is insulting and wrong. I don't feel a need to go through every post on this particular thread that has done this, but there were a few. I don't even assume that people of color are not guilty of this by the way. I'm a person of color and I've heard it, but it's not truly race in my experience. It's economics that create the differences. Someone else mentioned that poverty is the culprit and ultimately root of the disparities. I tend to agree. I just urge everyone to be more mindful of that - even when posting with anonymity.

I don't assume people are attributing the differences to melanin or melanin-related average IQ. Clearly, culture -- influenced by poverty and other factors -- and behavior (including choices about marriage and family structure) are implicated, especially as they relate to attitudes towards education.

100% agree it's at-risk

Also in DC there are almost no at-risk white folks which is why people take the racial shortcut