Anonymous
09/17/2018 16:11
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes we know... "cohort" is the other, which has nothing to do with academic metrics.
Really? But I have often read on DCUM that cohort is very important academically - usually in discussion about application magnet programs or schools in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase.
Putting a bunch of kids together w/o a proper curriculum is as useful as a bunch of smart kids chewing bubble gum together. Doesn't really achieve much. I cannot comment much about the middle school program, but I can certainly make a comment about elementary school. So they keep a bunch of smart kids back at the local school. They spend too much time doing very little and not being properly challenged in class. Unless the county plans a proper and challenging program for these kids with teachers who know how to implement the curriculum, cohorts mean very little.
I kind of disagree. I have a child at CES, and it is different than her experience at her home elementary. But also, her home elementary experience was solid, especially in reading and writing. Was she challenged by the curriculum? Not especially. But she was engaged in school and encouraged to learn and grow with a stimulating peer cohort that discussed math and games of strategy, read a LOT outside of the assigned classroom books, discussed and shared those outside books, played imaginative games, created their own little newsletter/newspaper, etc. They filled the in-between times at school with interesting, stimulating activities. My daughter learned extra math from one friend, and traded challenging books with another friend. She had a good peer cohort, and she learned a lot from them and was not bored and idle at school. She had reading groups and writing projects that were stimulating and interesting for her. Math was a bit of a different story, but no school is perfect. I do believe the math curriculum held my daughter back. But supplementing her math was/is way cheaper than paying for private school. And hopefully the math curriculum will improve in the future.
exactly. Treading water while having fun with your friends.
Meanwhile, your kid could be learning more subjects and learning them more deeply in an appropriate learning environment, curriculum and challenge level. But nevermind, you can make it all up in high school with AP tests and good ACTs. Maybe college will be where the real love of learning starts....
Anonymous
09/17/2018 16:09
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The last few percentiles can't be meaningfully distinguished by one taking of the Cogat. Cogat tells you this. MAP info says same thing. It involves statistics. MCPS would be using the tests against the test instructions if they gave meaning to 1 pecentile differences at the upper end. Instead they have to look over a number of factors. Oh, and they do. But some folks here don't want to hear this as they "know" their child "did better." umm, ok.
True but this contradicts the wack and baseless conspiracy theories. Reality is parents are now less able to game the system and the admission criteria is more competitive.
That's the crux of it.
The reality is that MCPS had to use "peer cohort" to change the demographics of the magnet students. That was the only way to do it other than outright affirmative action.
+1
+1
Anonymous
09/17/2018 16:08
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes we know... "cohort" is the other, which has nothing to do with academic metrics.
Really? But I have often read on DCUM that cohort is very important academically - usually in discussion about application magnet programs or schools in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase.
Putting a bunch of kids together w/o a proper curriculum is as useful as a bunch of smart kids chewing bubble gum together. Doesn't really achieve much. I cannot comment much about the middle school program, but I can certainly make a comment about elementary school. So they keep a bunch of smart kids back at the local school. They spend too much time doing very little and not being properly challenged in class. Unless the county plans a proper and challenging program for these kids with teachers who know how to implement the curriculum, cohorts mean very little.
Exactly!
My 99% DC who didn't make it to a CES was placed in an 'advanced' ELA class - sort of a consolation prize for high-achievers. At this point, the class has 31 students in it. My guess is, other parents have lobbied for their children to be there, but I honestly don't understand how the school plans on properly challenging that many children. From what I've seen so far, the material taught is on grade level.
Amen PPP. We pulled out oldest out for private and are hoping our youngest can start K next year if MCPS improves itself. What a waste of K-2 for oldest. It was worse than treading water. Bethesda.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 15:36
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The last few percentiles can't be meaningfully distinguished by one taking of the Cogat. Cogat tells you this. MAP info says same thing. It involves statistics. MCPS would be using the tests against the test instructions if they gave meaning to 1 pecentile differences at the upper end. Instead they have to look over a number of factors. Oh, and they do. But some folks here don't want to hear this as they "know" their child "did better." umm, ok.
True but this contradicts the wack and baseless conspiracy theories. Reality is parents are now less able to game the system and the admission criteria is more competitive.
That's the crux of it.
The reality is that MCPS had to use "peer cohort" to change the demographics of the magnet students. That was the only way to do it other than outright affirmative action.
Another wacky and baseless conspiracy theory. Alex Jones would approve.
When some parents were no longer to game admissions, it pushed them over the edge. Because of universal screening, there were roughly 10X the applicants this year which in years past was restricted to students whose parents nominated them. The result is admissions are more competitive.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 15:31
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The last few percentiles can't be meaningfully distinguished by one taking of the Cogat. Cogat tells you this. MAP info says same thing. It involves statistics. MCPS would be using the tests against the test instructions if they gave meaning to 1 pecentile differences at the upper end. Instead they have to look over a number of factors. Oh, and they do. But some folks here don't want to hear this as they "know" their child "did better." umm, ok.
True but this contradicts the wack and baseless conspiracy theories. Reality is parents are now less able to game the system and the admission criteria is more competitive.
That's the crux of it.
The reality is that MCPS had to use "peer cohort" to change the demographics of the magnet students. That was the only way to do it other than outright affirmative action.
Another wacky and baseless conspiracy theory. Alex Jones would approve.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 15:28
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes we know... "cohort" is the other, which has nothing to do with academic metrics.
Really? But I have often read on DCUM that cohort is very important academically - usually in discussion about application magnet programs or schools in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase.
Putting a bunch of kids together w/o a proper curriculum is as useful as a bunch of smart kids chewing bubble gum together. Doesn't really achieve much. I cannot comment much about the middle school program, but I can certainly make a comment about elementary school. So they keep a bunch of smart kids back at the local school. They spend too much time doing very little and not being properly challenged in class. Unless the county plans a proper and challenging program for these kids with teachers who know how to implement the curriculum, cohorts mean very little.
Well, tell that to the Whitman etc. parents. If cohort doesn't matter, why not live in the DCC?
Bragging rights.
Which is why many care about the Magnet cachet rather than the enriched course anyway.
Cohort is important. So is a challenging curriculum. Why do people separate these two things? Why can't a parent want both for their kids? And no, the "enriched" classes at the home school is no where near the level of the magnet program.
A parent can want both, but in a county with very few middle school magnet slots, a parent cannot feel entitled to one of those slots. There are going to be more kids who could benefit from those slots than there are slots. And the value that parents in wealthier schools place on peer cohort suggests that kids at a home school where they do not have a peer cohort challenging them are more in need of the magnet slots than those who do have a challenging peer cohort. Because the home school is more likely to be directing instruction at a level appropriate to a cohort than at a level appropriate to 1 student.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 15:17
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The last few percentiles can't be meaningfully distinguished by one taking of the Cogat. Cogat tells you this. MAP info says same thing. It involves statistics. MCPS would be using the tests against the test instructions if they gave meaning to 1 pecentile differences at the upper end. Instead they have to look over a number of factors. Oh, and they do. But some folks here don't want to hear this as they "know" their child "did better." umm, ok.
True but this contradicts the wack and baseless conspiracy theories. Reality is parents are now less able to game the system and the admission criteria is more competitive.
That's the crux of it.
The reality is that MCPS had to use "peer cohort" to change the demographics of the magnet students. That was the only way to do it other than outright affirmative action.
+1
Anonymous
09/17/2018 15:15
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes we know... "cohort" is the other, which has nothing to do with academic metrics.
Really? But I have often read on DCUM that cohort is very important academically - usually in discussion about application magnet programs or schools in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase.
Putting a bunch of kids together w/o a proper curriculum is as useful as a bunch of smart kids chewing bubble gum together. Doesn't really achieve much. I cannot comment much about the middle school program, but I can certainly make a comment about elementary school. So they keep a bunch of smart kids back at the local school. They spend too much time doing very little and not being properly challenged in class. Unless the county plans a proper and challenging program for these kids with teachers who know how to implement the curriculum, cohorts mean very little.
Well, tell that to the Whitman etc. parents. If cohort doesn't matter, why not live in the DCC?
Bragging rights.
Which is why many care about the Magnet cachet rather than the enriched course anyway.
Cohort is important. So is a challenging curriculum. Why do people separate these two things? Why can't a parent want both for their kids? And no, the "enriched" classes at the home school is no where near the level of the magnet program.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 14:02
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes we know... "cohort" is the other, which has nothing to do with academic metrics.
Really? But I have often read on DCUM that cohort is very important academically - usually in discussion about application magnet programs or schools in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase.
Putting a bunch of kids together w/o a proper curriculum is as useful as a bunch of smart kids chewing bubble gum together. Doesn't really achieve much. I cannot comment much about the middle school program, but I can certainly make a comment about elementary school. So they keep a bunch of smart kids back at the local school. They spend too much time doing very little and not being properly challenged in class. Unless the county plans a proper and challenging program for these kids with teachers who know how to implement the curriculum, cohorts mean very little.
Well, tell that to the Whitman etc. parents. If cohort doesn't matter, why not live in the DCC?
Bragging rights.
Which is why many care about the Magnet cachet rather than the enriched course anyway.
Segregated schools have fewer low SES students so have higher average stats. Marginally intelligent parents confuse this with school quality since it's been pushed by the real-estate industry for decades. Perhaps, education will improve someday to where parents are able to analyze data for themselves.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 12:56
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes we know... "cohort" is the other, which has nothing to do with academic metrics.
Really? But I have often read on DCUM that cohort is very important academically - usually in discussion about application magnet programs or schools in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase.
Putting a bunch of kids together w/o a proper curriculum is as useful as a bunch of smart kids chewing bubble gum together. Doesn't really achieve much. I cannot comment much about the middle school program, but I can certainly make a comment about elementary school. So they keep a bunch of smart kids back at the local school. They spend too much time doing very little and not being properly challenged in class. Unless the county plans a proper and challenging program for these kids with teachers who know how to implement the curriculum, cohorts mean very little.
Well, tell that to the Whitman etc. parents. If cohort doesn't matter, why not live in the DCC?
Bragging rights.
Which is why many care about the Magnet cachet rather than the enriched course anyway.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 11:21
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The last few percentiles can't be meaningfully distinguished by one taking of the Cogat. Cogat tells you this. MAP info says same thing. It involves statistics. MCPS would be using the tests against the test instructions if they gave meaning to 1 pecentile differences at the upper end. Instead they have to look over a number of factors. Oh, and they do. But some folks here don't want to hear this as they "know" their child "did better." umm, ok.
True but this contradicts the wack and baseless conspiracy theories. Reality is parents are now less able to game the system and the admission criteria is more competitive.
That's the crux of it.
The reality is that MCPS had to use "peer cohort" to change the demographics of the magnet students. That was the only way to do it other than outright affirmative action.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 11:21
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:iAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with universal screening, but using the cohort criteria really does exclude the brighter kids.
But don’t they get the advanced classes at their home school? I thought they send the kids who are advanced but there’s not enough (20?) other advanced kids at their school, and where there are enough kids to form a class they keep them at their home school? I’d prefer my kid be at the home school, unless the magnet is close.
No. If it was the exact same curriculum, then yes, but it's not the same curriculum, so no.. those one or two classes does not make a magnet program.
Oh, but three classes does?!?! The magnets only have three magnet classes, others magnet students take with "regular" students from that school. So, if they have two magnet classes at their home school and now have the time they would have had to spend on the bus to participate in an extra curricular activity or club, win/win for everyone... seems like a move in the right direction.
You don’t understand the middle school magnet program. Not only is the curriculum for each class more advanced, but the curriculum for the magnet classes is coordinated across magnet subjects and between magnet teachers. So for example an “enriched” 6th grade social studies class at a home school will not come close to replicating the 6th grade magnet social studies class at a humanities magnet MS, which will be informed by and complement the work the students are doing in their magnet English, reading, and media classes (4 magnet classes in 6th grade). Those four advanced classes do not I include the math class, which is taken with home school students but for most magnet kids is IM, because they did compacted math in 4th and 5th.
I’ve had kids Inc both the magnet and home middle school programs. The difference is night and day. The home middle school was a snooze fest and the “honors” classes were a joke. I have no objections to universal screening, but I strongly object to the “peer cohort”rationale. Instructional need is a question of individual students’ capability and not whether there are other capable students in the same home school,when they are already being held back by an inadequate curriculum. The presence of other smart students does nothing to solve the fundamental inadequacies of the curriculum. The only solution is for MCPS to expand the magnet programs to home schools to meet the needs of all qualified students, not just rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic to reach a different set of qualified students.
The fourth course (lit) is now optional and only about 1/3 of Eastern’s 6th graders are taking it. There are also students who are not in the Magnet that take Lit as an elective.
OK, fine. That doesn't address the central point of my post, that the magnet curriculum (three classes at mininum in 6th, then 3 classes each in 7th and 8th) are not only advanced but also integrated with significant curriculum and teacher coordination. Which nobody is going to get from an "enriched" class at the home middle school. And the other central point of my post is that MCPS may be redistributing limited magnet spots but is more generally failing to provide adequate curricula and teaching at the home middle schools for the many students who could handle it and need more challenging material if they are not to just tread water.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 11:14
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The last few percentiles can't be meaningfully distinguished by one taking of the Cogat. Cogat tells you this. MAP info says same thing. It involves statistics. MCPS would be using the tests against the test instructions if they gave meaning to 1 pecentile differences at the upper end. Instead they have to look over a number of factors. Oh, and they do. But some folks here don't want to hear this as they "know" their child "did better." umm, ok.
True but this contradicts the wack and baseless conspiracy theories. Reality is parents are now less able to game the system and the admission criteria is more competitive.
That's the crux of it.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 11:12
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes we know... "cohort" is the other, which has nothing to do with academic metrics.
Really? But I have often read on DCUM that cohort is very important academically - usually in discussion about application magnet programs or schools in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase.
Putting a bunch of kids together w/o a proper curriculum is as useful as a bunch of smart kids chewing bubble gum together. Doesn't really achieve much. I cannot comment much about the middle school program, but I can certainly make a comment about elementary school. So they keep a bunch of smart kids back at the local school. They spend too much time doing very little and not being properly challenged in class. Unless the county plans a proper and challenging program for these kids with teachers who know how to implement the curriculum, cohorts mean very little.
I kind of disagree. I have a child at CES, and it is different than her experience at her home elementary. But also, her home elementary experience was solid, especially in reading and writing. Was she challenged by the curriculum? Not especially. But she was engaged in school and encouraged to learn and grow with a stimulating peer cohort that discussed math and games of strategy, read a LOT outside of the assigned classroom books, discussed and shared those outside books, played imaginative games, created their own little newsletter/newspaper, etc. They filled the in-between times at school with interesting, stimulating activities. My daughter learned extra math from one friend, and traded challenging books with another friend. She had a good peer cohort, and she learned a lot from them and was not bored and idle at school. She had reading groups and writing projects that were stimulating and interesting for her. Math was a bit of a different story, but no school is perfect. I do believe the math curriculum held my daughter back. But supplementing her math was/is way cheaper than paying for private school. And hopefully the math curriculum will improve in the future.
Anonymous
09/17/2018 10:53
Subject: mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Yes we know... "cohort" is the other, which has nothing to do with academic metrics.
Really? But I have often read on DCUM that cohort is very important academically - usually in discussion about application magnet programs or schools in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase.
Putting a bunch of kids together w/o a proper curriculum is as useful as a bunch of smart kids chewing bubble gum together. Doesn't really achieve much. I cannot comment much about the middle school program, but I can certainly make a comment about elementary school. So they keep a bunch of smart kids back at the local school. They spend too much time doing very little and not being properly challenged in class. Unless the county plans a proper and challenging program for these kids with teachers who know how to implement the curriculum, cohorts mean very little.
Exactly!
My 99% DC who didn't make it to a CES was placed in an 'advanced' ELA class - sort of a consolation prize for high-achievers. At this point, the class has 31 students in it. My guess is, other parents have lobbied for their children to be there, but I honestly don't understand how the school plans on properly challenging that many children. From what I've seen so far, the material taught is on grade level.