Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm troubled by the push for changes under the last administration preceding a thorough plan to implement well. I am fine with a moratorium simply because the way it was rolled out was by fiat with the chips falling as they may. We are actively fighting a war on many fronts, we have airplanes flying without sufficient parts. I do believe the day will come when all of this is moot, and no one bats an eye at trans in the military or elsewhere. But we are not there. Unfortunately I think president Obama probably set this back. No one is going to want to touch this again for a long time .

You are wrong on several counts. The previous administration launched a comprehensive planning process which was due to end this month. The current administration delayed the implementation of the plan. The actual fiat occurred this morning on Twitter. As far as touching it goes, several senators, including Republicans, couldn't wait to touch it today. I assume that you know that just last week the Republican-dominated House voted against cutting funding for Transgender surgeries for military members. Trump went well beyond what even the hardliners were hoping for.

I am the PP. I don't like what Trump did, but I don't like what President Obama did. My spouse was throughout and continues to be active duty military. I would like the military to be a great place for our daughter to serve, a great rape free (or highly consequence behavior--which it isn't in America at large btw) for both men and women (men get raped too in the military). I like the idea that trans may bring something special to the table. I watch Billions and "They" scares the #@& out of me and I'd love to set They on the enemy. However, I also like the idea of spouse currently focused on war fighting, well supplied, not deliberating over his/hers/theirs shower arrangements in the field and I am personally uncomfortable with co-berthing. If I were in the field and could die the next day the person next to me, even if not the subject of my marriage vows, might form a special bond and be extremely tempting. I think the military currently has its hands completely full with integrating women. The changes under President Obama were quick, by fiat, and unrelenting. There seems to be endless money for trainings to support them. Meanwhile, military ships are crashing in the Pacific and military airplanes are falling out of the sky. Where is the training and supplies for these? Enough. I don't like what Trump did but I don't like what Obama did either. Both are all or nothing guys. Again, where is our person who mediates? I think Obama set us back, and Trump is a reaction that does as well. Another sad day for America, but not completely unpredictable.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the cost, according to tgender.com "Costs. The average cost for a male-to-female surgery is about $17,000. Adding in a cost of about $1000 for therapy, $1500 for hormones, and $500 for doctors visits and lab tests, the cost to transition averages about $20,000 over a two year transition period." This also does not take in consideration of breast surgery. Sounds pricey to me for an elective process.

Elective surgery. The Military does not cover the cost of any elective surgery currently.

It doesn't even cover chiropractic care.

Why should it cover elective trans surgery and meds?

That's not even the issue being discussed. Trump has simply banned all transgender people from service whether they require medical care or not. The lawsuits will cost a lot more than surgery, but you won't be so cost conscious then.

Really? No one on this thread is talking about medical costs?

Anonymous wrote:As for the cost, according to tgender.com "Costs. The average cost for a male-to-female surgery is about $17,000. Adding in a cost of about $1000 for therapy, $1500 for hormones, and $500 for doctors visits and lab tests, the cost to transition averages about $20,000 over a two year transition period." This also does not take in consideration of breast surgery. Sounds pricey to me for an elective process.

Elective surgery. The Military does not cover the cost of any elective surgery currently.

It doesn't even cover chiropractic care.

Why should it cover elective trans surgery and meds?

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm troubled by the push for changes under the last administration preceding a thorough plan to implement well. I am fine with a moratorium simply because the way it was rolled out was by fiat with the chips falling as they may. We are actively fighting a war on many fronts, we have airplanes flying without sufficient parts. I do believe the day will come when all of this is moot, and no one bats an eye at trans in the military or elsewhere. But we are not there. Unfortunately I think president Obama probably set this back. No one is going to want to touch this again for a long time .

You are wrong on several counts. The previous administration launched a comprehensive planning process which was due to end this month. The current administration delayed the implementation of the plan. The actual fiat occurred this morning on Twitter. As far as touching it goes, several senators, including Republicans, couldn't wait to touch it today. I assume that you know that just last week the Republican-dominated House voted against cutting funding for Transgender surgeries for military members. Trump went well beyond what even the hardliners were hoping for.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the cost, according to tgender.com "Costs. The average cost for a male-to-female surgery is about $17,000. Adding in a cost of about $1000 for therapy, $1500 for hormones, and $500 for doctors visits and lab tests, the cost to transition averages about $20,000 over a two year transition period." This also does not take in consideration of breast surgery. Sounds pricey to me for an elective process.

Elective surgery. The Military does not cover the cost of any elective surgery currently.

It doesn't even cover chiropractic care.

Why should it cover elective trans surgery and meds?

That's not even the issue being discussed. Trump has simply banned all transgender people from service whether they require medical care or not. The lawsuits will cost a lot more than surgery, but you won't be so cost conscious then.

Anonymous wrote:As for the cost, according to tgender.com "Costs. The average cost for a male-to-female surgery is about $17,000. Adding in a cost of about $1000 for therapy, $1500 for hormones, and $500 for doctors visits and lab tests, the cost to transition averages about $20,000 over a two year transition period." This also does not take in consideration of breast surgery. Sounds pricey to me for an elective process.

Elective surgery. The Military does not cover the cost of any elective surgery currently.

It doesn't even cover chiropractic care.

Why should it cover elective trans surgery and meds?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are transgender members of the military now. Yet, the institution is not collapsing.

And, it is highly unlikely that they are serving at firebases. We have a long way to go to work out the issues before this can happen. For example, women are not on firebases (rare exceptions, if any). So, if you are a transgender male would you be allowed to serve there? A transgender female? You don't understand the problems with this in very, very tight quarters? Ask most war vets--boredom, fear, and the day to day monotony are some of the biggest issues.

There is a lot to be worked out first. Society is still having trouble with this. Let is go first.

Let's be real: the vast majority of the military are NOT on firebases. They are pushing paper, working in logistics, repairs, or one of hundreds of other "mission support" jobs. There's ZERO good reasons why transgender citizens cannot do those jobs.

Y'all are a bunch of bullshitting faux concern trolls.

No, DC person. You live at the epicenter of the paper Military.

The war fighters don't live in DC.

"War fighters" are useless without logistics and intelligence. They are also going the way of dinosaurs. Now grow up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are transgender members of the military now. Yet, the institution is not collapsing.

And, it is highly unlikely that they are serving at firebases. We have a long way to go to work out the issues before this can happen. For example, women are not on firebases (rare exceptions, if any). So, if you are a transgender male would you be allowed to serve there? A transgender female? You don't understand the problems with this in very, very tight quarters? Ask most war vets--boredom, fear, and the day to day monotony are some of the biggest issues.

There is a lot to be worked out first. Society is still having trouble with this. Let is go first.

Let's be real: the vast majority of the military are NOT on firebases. They are pushing paper, working in logistics, repairs, or one of hundreds of other "mission support" jobs. There's ZERO good reasons why transgender citizens cannot do those jobs.

Y'all are a bunch of bullshitting faux concern trolls.

No, DC person. You live at the epicenter of the paper Military.

The war fighters don't live in DC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are transgender members of the military now. Yet, the institution is not collapsing.

And, it is highly unlikely that they are serving at firebases. We have a long way to go to work out the issues before this can happen. For example, women are not on firebases (rare exceptions, if any). So, if you are a transgender male would you be allowed to serve there? A transgender female? You don't understand the problems with this in very, very tight quarters? Ask most war vets--boredom, fear, and the day to day monotony are some of the biggest issues.

There is a lot to be worked out first. Society is still having trouble with this. Let is go first.

Let's be real: the vast majority of the military are NOT on firebases. They are pushing paper, working in logistics, repairs, or one of hundreds of other "mission support" jobs. There's ZERO good reasons why transgender citizens cannot do those jobs.

Y'all are a bunch of bullshitting faux concern trolls.

Anonymous wrote:Why do others countries have no problems with transgender people serving in the military? 19 countries have openly serving trans service members.

Please, those of you who think this is a HUGE problem. What are these countries doing wrong that they aren't experiencing it as a problem?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_and_military_service

Anonymous wrote:I think we should ban orange people from holding public office. Or from the US entirely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do others countries have no problems with transgender people serving in the military? 19 countries have openly serving trans service members.

Please, those of you who think this is a HUGE problem. What are these countries doing wrong that they aren't experiencing it as a problem?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_and_military_service

Did you read the medical issues paragraph? Our tax dollars paying for this surgery and special accomodations for Chelsea Manning? Suit against Hagel?

A comment on the NYT from an ex-soldier who is trans said NO unless the individual is done with all the debilitating surgeries. I knew men who were gay that proudly served in WW2. Were they undergoing massive medical procedures ? No.