Anonymous wrote:Soccer is an early specialization sport people, please get over it. Gymnastics, dance, and some ice sports start just as young if not younger for the kids on the competitive track.

Soccer is an early specialized sport because of the politics. You don't get fare shakes if you don't run the gambit of club levels unless you are mind blowing good. I force my kids to at least try other sports over the summer and winter, they fight it but they are better athletes because of it. Swimming (life skill) allows them to build endurance and basketball gives them that agility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^depends how you define that.

Studies have shown in overall fitness a professional soccer player is the most well-rounded and combo. Soccer players do have the best bodies though--can't deny that.

Football players are too big, basketball players are too tall, baseball players are dumpy.

You really do not follow sports do you?

Odell Beckham He picked football over soccer.
5'11" 195, 40 time 4.43, bench best 225 7 times, vertical 38.5", broad jump 112, 20 yard shuttle 3.94, 60 yards 10.93, etc
Champ Bailey 40 time 4.28. Ever try to man up a receiver? Its really hard.
Michael Vick
Darrell Green
Darren Sproles 5'6" 190
lesean mccoy
etc sure there are some big guys in the NFL but there are many many great athletes under 6'.
NBA is more selective on height, but still many are 6-4 or less.
eric bledsoe
Ty Lawson
Isaiah Thomas
Chris Paul
Plus a ton more in college.

These are strong, fast, quick elite athletes with great visual spatial skills. If US soccer had the same athletic bass to draw on as these sports have the US would be a very dominate power in soccer.

I do love dominating on the bass, but this topic is dead within soccer circles. Discussed to death, and the consensus is that the skill sets and types of athleticism in soccer just aren't the same as they are in other sports. That's not a value judgment -- yes, Champ Bailey was a fantastic athlete, as are most NBA players and most NFL WR/DBs. But they wouldn't necessarily be dominant soccer players.

Wow, how is this a debate? As a former athlete all the way up through college, I said it former (bad knees) you workout based on your sport. Even within that, you work out based on your position in the sport. Comparing Odell (GO GMEN) to any soccer player is unfair, besides football is probably the most rounded sport in terms of representing athletes. Strength positions, speed positions, and skill positions. But overall, I think soccer athletes are probably more in line with runners or a swimmer. Constantly moving and the only thing that changes is the pace. I tip my hat off to the pros where you don't have unlimited substitutions, that's a variable that no other sport can really touch. Just look at the Flea, he wouldn't look like an elite athlete but will go down as one of best players in the world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^depends how you define that.

Studies have shown in overall fitness a professional soccer player is the most well-rounded and combo. Soccer players do have the best bodies though--can't deny that.

Football players are too big, basketball players are too tall, baseball players are dumpy.

You really do not follow sports do you?

Odell Beckham He picked football over soccer.
5'11" 195, 40 time 4.43, bench best 225 7 times, vertical 38.5", broad jump 112, 20 yard shuttle 3.94, 60 yards 10.93, etc
Champ Bailey 40 time 4.28. Ever try to man up a receiver? Its really hard.
Michael Vick
Darrell Green
Darren Sproles 5'6" 190
lesean mccoy
etc sure there are some big guys in the NFL but there are many many great athletes under 6'.
NBA is more selective on height, but still many are 6-4 or less.
eric bledsoe
Ty Lawson
Isaiah Thomas
Chris Paul
Plus a ton more in college.

These are strong, fast, quick elite athletes with great visual spatial skills. If US soccer had the same athletic bass to draw on as these sports have the US would be a very dominate power in soccer.

I do love dominating on the bass, but this topic is dead within soccer circles. Discussed to death, and the consensus is that the skill sets and types of athleticism in soccer just aren't the same as they are in other sports. That's not a value judgment -- yes, Champ Bailey was a fantastic athlete, as are most NBA players and most NFL WR/DBs. But they wouldn't necessarily be dominant soccer players.

lol if you have no foot skills and have never manipulated a soccer ball with your foot while someone else is trying to take it away form you, it doesn't matter how great of an athlete you are, unless you are a goalkeeper.

That's like saying soccer players are great endurance athletes, so a few of them would make good basketball players. They have no hand-eye coordination whatsoever if you give them a basketball because they haven't been exposed to it.

It takes thousands of hours to develop the foot skills you need at the pro level, starting from a very early age.

A great athlete is a great athlete, but athleticism alone with zero skill will get you roasted when you play with skilled players that are average athletes. All you can do is defend, but the ball can always "outrun" players - meaning the ball can always be passed faster and be moved around the field more quickly than anyone can catch up with it. You also have no clue what is happening around you - small group tactics, attacking and defending as a group, and all the techniques involved in striking a moving ball with all the surfaces of your feet.



When I was in college, I'd practice and play pick-up soccer indoors in our campus rec center over the winter months when most students were on vacation, and there was always a group of basketball players there who were the best on campus outside of the varsity athletes. They were great athletes, and type A macho guys who had to let everyone know they were the kings of the court.

They'd see a few of us doing all these skills with the ball and occasionally one of them would wander over and "try" to play in our game to prove he could dominate, but he would basically embarrass himself and look completely ridiculous trying to control a soccer ball while decked out in full basketball gear, shoes and everything. The first instinct was always toe ball as hard as possible.

They were so uncoordinated with the soccer ball, especially trying to juggle. To this day it is one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

Anonymous wrote:^^depends how you define that.

Studies have shown in overall fitness a professional soccer player is the most well-rounded and combo. Soccer players do have the best bodies though--can't deny that.

Football players are too big, basketball players are too tall, baseball players are dumpy.

You really do not follow sports do you?

Odell Beckham He picked football over soccer.
5'11" 195, 40 time 4.43, bench best 225 7 times, vertical 38.5", broad jump 112, 20 yard shuttle 3.94, 60 yards 10.93, etc
Champ Bailey 40 time 4.28. Ever try to man up a receiver? Its really hard.
Michael Vick
Darrell Green
Darren Sproles 5'6" 190
lesean mccoy
etc sure there are some big guys in the NFL but there are many many great athletes under 6'.
NBA is more selective on height, but still many are 6-4 or less.
eric bledsoe
Ty Lawson
Isaiah Thomas
Chris Paul
Plus a ton more in college.

These are strong, fast, quick elite athletes with great visual spatial skills. If US soccer had the same athletic bass to draw on as these sports have the US would be a very dominate power in soccer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^depends how you define that.

Studies have shown in overall fitness a professional soccer player is the most well-rounded and combo. Soccer players do have the best bodies though--can't deny that.

Football players are too big, basketball players are too tall, baseball players are dumpy.

Not PP, but I suspect the point was that the most athletically talented people do not play soccer (they choose instead to develop in or pursue a sport that has a lucrative financial future).

Forbes Releases The World's Highest-Paid Athletes List 2016
Rank Athlete Sport
1 Cristiano Ronaldo Soccer
2 Lionel Messi Soccer
3 LeBron James Basketball
4 Roger Federer Tennis

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^depends how you define that.

Studies have shown in overall fitness a professional soccer player is the most well-rounded and combo. Soccer players do have the best bodies though--can't deny that.

Football players are too big, basketball players are too tall, baseball players are dumpy.

Not PP, but I suspect the point was that the most athletically talented people do not play soccer (they choose instead to develop in or pursue a sport that has a lucrative financial future).

And the refutation was that soccer players tend to be physically different from other athletes.

Anonymous wrote:^^depends how you define that.

Studies have shown in overall fitness a professional soccer player is the most well-rounded and combo. Soccer players do have the best bodies though--can't deny that.

Football players are too big, basketball players are too tall, baseball players are dumpy.

Not PP, but I suspect the point was that the most athletically talented people do not play soccer (they choose instead to develop in or pursue a sport that has a lucrative financial future).

^^depends how you define that.

Studies have shown in overall fitness a professional soccer player is the most well-rounded and combo. Soccer players do have the best bodies though--can't deny that.

Football players are too big, basketball players are too tall, baseball players are dumpy.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe we suck at soccer because in the U.S. kids are forced to specialize in soccer early. Remember that European academies provide a well-rounded athletic development experience that incorporates track & field-type speed and agility training along with martial arts or gymnastics sometimes, swimming, and even other team sports. And as someone said, the practice-to-game ratio in academies emphasizes training, not tournaments.

The best athlete in the US do not play soccer.

Maybe we suck at soccer because in the U.S. kids are forced to specialize in soccer early. Remember that European academies provide a well-rounded athletic development experience that incorporates track & field-type speed and agility training along with martial arts or gymnastics sometimes, swimming, and even other team sports. And as someone said, the practice-to-game ratio in academies emphasizes training, not tournaments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:explain to me how this is not early specialization:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZJ_sqbl6_c&t=68s



Then he gets a little older and evolves in to this:

At 10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGR8EpD9Dqo

At 11:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukSsUf_OCKU


Anyone disagree that this kid is talented? I doubt its because he is playing multiple sports.

You're right. That one kid disproves all the general studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658407/

http://changingthegameproject.com/is-it-wise-to-specialize/

http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/are_kids_specializing_in_sports_too_early/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423172601.htm

There's a recent German study, too. But it's not exactly difficult to find much more evidence.

I'd wouldn't pay attention to any of the US studies because we suck at soccer.

I will say that while the Europeans do specialize---they train less. They limit how much their kids are doing in Academy. At they youngest--2 days per week and around elementary school 3-4 days per week tops. THEY ALSO DO NOT DO THE DUMBSHIT THING OF HAVING KIDS PLAY 4-5 GAMES A WEEK IN TOURNAMENTS.

But (A) we're very good at sports medicine and psychology, and (B) not all of those studies are U.S. studies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6:37 - that's about what we spent this year for U9.
$1,800 club fees (going up to $1,900)
$345 team fees (covered 4 tournaments, winter futsal, coach gifts, equipment)
probably $300 in uniforms, cleats, balls, maybe more
$100 for a tent and chairs, but I can use those for other things

plus meals and the occasional hotel when we have an early Sunday tournament game in Ellicott city and don't want to get up at the crack of dawn to drive back there.

Jesus Christ! All that for U9!

This does sound like a lot!

DS participated in the ASA U9 tryouts last weekend, and he'll go back next Saturday. I'm not at all sure that he will be selected, but if he is, I'm wondering if it's worth it to accept the spot. I know the answer to this question will vary kid to kid and family to family, but would you say it's worth the time and money to play U9 travel soccer as a 7 year old? It all seems like too much too soon, but plenty of people are doing it. Honestly, I kind of wish this wasn't even an option at this age.

Sounds like you should investigate Arlington's Development Program (ADP). Tryouts will be after Travel Tryouts, and is an intermediate and cost / time efficient way to determine if future Travel Soccer is a real interest. There is a professional coach practice and a parent coach practice. All games are in Arlington, and the level of competition is greater than Rec soccer. My kids did it before entering the Travel program. It is roughly $300 per semester, and includes the uniform.

Thanks, PP - and thanks, too, to the other PP who responded. We had planned to have DS try out for ADP and not try out for travel. But then the parents of some kids on DS's rec team indicated that they planned to have their sons try out for the travel program, and we thought, why not? DS is no special talent, but he's very obviously the best player on his rec team. Now I'm wondering if we have created a problem for ourselves if DS actually makes the team. DS really enjoyed the tryouts last weekend, but I worry that he may lose his love for soccer by spending so much time playing each week. And honestly, I almost fell out of my chair when I saw how much the travel program costs! We can certainly afford it, but it's still a lot of money (even for a 10 month program). Then again, a neighbor just told me how much youth ice hockey costs (more than soccer), so I suppose it's all relative.

I've heard good things about ADP, and I think that's probably our best bet. Do kids often move up from ADP to the travel program? If they do, it seems like ADP with the potential for travel down the road would be a good plan. But DS will probably want a spot on the travel team he he is offered a spot (he has 2nd and 3rd grade friends at school who play travel, and DS has already internalized that the really good players play travel). We would like to let DS make the decision, but he probably can't accurately weigh the time commitment and cost. Of course, it's entirely possible that DS won't be offered a spot in the travel program, and this will all be a moot point.

The ADP program has some kids with real skill, whose parents may not have the time for Travel - but there are also some moderate players who did not qualify for Travel, but need more of a challenge than simply Rec soccer. There are stories of ADP kids jumping up to a high Travel team after the tryouts, but it is unusual and more often with girls soccer. However, it is common for ADP kids to move to a Travel Team such as Silver and Gold fairly easily. Also, there are other Travel Tryouts in the area not as competitive as Arlington Soccer, such as Alexandria, Vienna, McLean, etc... which have pretty good programs, but harder for carpooling and getting to practices. Best of luck to you and your son.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:explain to me how this is not early specialization:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZJ_sqbl6_c&t=68s



Then he gets a little older and evolves in to this:

At 10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGR8EpD9Dqo

At 11:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukSsUf_OCKU


Anyone disagree that this kid is talented? I doubt its because he is playing multiple sports.

You're right. That one kid disproves all the general studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658407/

http://changingthegameproject.com/is-it-wise-to-specialize/

http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/are_kids_specializing_in_sports_too_early/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423172601.htm

There's a recent German study, too. But it's not exactly difficult to find much more evidence.

I'd wouldn't pay attention to any of the US studies because we suck at soccer.

I will say that while the Europeans do specialize---they train less. They limit how much their kids are doing in Academy. At they youngest--2 days per week and around elementary school 3-4 days per week tops. THEY ALSO DO NOT DO THE DUMBSHIT THING OF HAVING KIDS PLAY 4-5 GAMES A WEEK IN TOURNAMENTS.

Anonymous wrote:explain to me how this is not early specialization:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZJ_sqbl6_c&t=68s



Then he gets a little older and evolves in to this:

At 10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGR8EpD9Dqo

At 11:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukSsUf_OCKU


Anyone disagree that this kid is talented? I doubt its because he is playing multiple sports.

You're right. That one kid disproves all the general studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658407/

http://changingthegameproject.com/is-it-wise-to-specialize/

http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/are_kids_specializing_in_sports_too_early/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423172601.htm

There's a recent German study, too. But it's not exactly difficult to find much more evidence.