Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 16:59     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:30yo doter here. To answer the PP, he doesn't dote back the way I dote on him, but his version of doting is being affectionate, complimentary, and open. Which is what I need. He says thank you when I do his laundry with mine, when I go grocery shopping for the weekend, when I make dinner (I'm off Friday's, he's not). It's a nice thank you, albeit quick, but it's usually after I point out what I did (jeez that sounds annoying. Why do I have to point it out?)
Sometimes I think in my head 'I just schleped around all day for us/you, it's kind of a big deal, acknowledge that...'

But then I've spent time reading this thread and realize - no ones making me do these things. No ones even asking me. So, I think I'm going to scale back. Doting is in my nature so I don't think I could do/ would want to do a 180, but unfortunately I DO need the thank-you's and I DO feel annoyed if I don't get any acknowledgement. I hate admitting that after reading this whole thread.


2nd poster here. Been away for about 30 hours and the thread blew up!

Dote if it makes you feel good to do it, but don't expect anything in return. Isn't that at the heart of charity? That is the whole point of this thread. Do for your husband,yourself or your marriage with no expectation of anything in return. It is those expectations that we set up for other to please us that are the things that are going to disappoint us most.

I sat with my daughter and the teacher of a class she is having trouble in today. She gave my daughter good advice. Don't set your expectation so high. Do your best and delight when you exceed the expectations. Forgive yourself if you don't or if you make a mistake. The advice can be applied to marriage. Forgive yourself, forgive your husband when expectations are dashed, and try not to hold everyone, yourself and your spouse included, to an overly high standard. Marriage is tough enough without finding reasons to resent your spouse or feel like you have put in more than they.

Maybe instead of saying we stopped caring, we should say we stopped setting unrealistic expectations and stopped trying to meet perceived or real expectations of our spouse. I don't care if I don't meet expectations and I certainly forgive myself. Makes everyone a lot happier.

As for the cooking class, the whole thing is a onion. Lots of layers where the husband was doomed to fail. Pick from a set of choices none of which made him happy and then be told he had to do the work to set up the activity he wasn't interested in. Lady, you set him up. How about next time you ask if he wants to go to a redskins (or other sporting event), you go find the date and buy the tickets? Maybe instead of trying to reconnect with him by pulling him into your world, you reach out and step into his. If nothing else, plan something that you did together when you were dating. First step back into my own marriage a decade ago, I planned a camping trip. I HATE camping, but DH needed to feel like I cared about him. I planned it and became an annual event for our family for years. The next year, DH did all the planning because he remembered how much he enjoyed it. I suck it up and camp, and sometimes, I don't even go now. Kids do.



Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 16:37     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yup, I'm learning this too. I take the kids on vacation, go on girls trips and rarely call him. It really seems to help.


Yes to all this, plus extramarital sex. Unlike most men, my husband doesn't like frequent sex or much variety, so having someone else to explore that side with took a lot of pressure off of him.


OK, we're not biting on this. We're not going to accept "have an affair" as good advice to preserve a marriage and keep it healthy. Do you what you want, but you don't get to act like cheating on your spouse is something a good wife and mother does.


It's consistent with the theme of this thread, which is recognize that your partner doesn't exist to make you happy and that you have to make yourself happy. I don't want to be married to anyone else but I refuse to live without good sex. I'm like a stereotypical guy - four or five days without sex and I get very grumpy.


And it wouldn't be OK for a guy, either. You took vows. Definitely legally binding vows, and most likely, religious vows as well. If DH doesn't make "enough" money, it is OK to go steal? Because both theft and adultery are immoral and selfish behaviors.


No, but it's perfectly fine to get a job or get a second job.

Sometimes you have to cheat to save the marriage, because if you have to live with the crappy sex life in the marriage, you are going to have to divorce. Nobody wins in a divorce.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 16:34     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yup, I'm learning this too. I take the kids on vacation, go on girls trips and rarely call him. It really seems to help.


Yes to all this, plus extramarital sex. Unlike most men, my husband doesn't like frequent sex or much variety, so having someone else to explore that side with took a lot of pressure off of him.


OK, we're not biting on this. We're not going to accept "have an affair" as good advice to preserve a marriage and keep it healthy. Do you what you want, but you don't get to act like cheating on your spouse is something a good wife and mother does.



It works for some marriages and it absolutely is a choice that some good wives and mothers make. If it keeps the marriage together, and neither spouse is unhappy, it's not a wrong choice. Some people cheat to save their marriages.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 16:29     Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:NP here. This is all so interesting. I have done some of this too.
I have three kids, all under 10. I really didn't see divorce as an option because I couldn't imagine being separated from my kids. But I had to reduce the conflict. And this did it.
A perfect examples is trips. I spend SO much time planning every detail. Every last detail. And he would complain. About everything. He would scold me for "taking it personally" when he hated a hotel, but how could I not?
When I finally realized that I am in fact very good at trip planning, I decided I didn't care what he thought. At all. Friends and family ask me constantly to help them plan. I am very good at the research and I love doing it. He's just a complainer. So now I nod my head, sort of change the subject, whatever. I don't care.
Same goes for cooking, house decorating - I am a full time lawyer. I'm not that interested in that stuff snd it is NOT an essential part of mothering. If he wants to complain about it - go right ahead. I am confident I am a great mom and would rather take a bike ride with them than cook some elaborate meal.
Things have been so much better.
And I truly don't care what he thinks.
I guess that's sad in a way.


I am a full time lawyer too. My H knew when we got married that I would never cook like his mom, or honestly, kiss his butt like she did and still does. Oh well. He certainly couldn't afford for me to SAH, even if I wanted to, so we are clearly not replicas of his parents.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 16:27     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?


I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.


He SHOULD care about that stuff. He would if you were truly 50/50 partners. You are lowering your standards and settling for something second rate. I don't know why you would do that let alone advise someone else to. Bad idea.


+ 1

New Poster here. I agree. If it matters to you, it should matter to him. It's really that simple. The fact that it doesn't shows disrespect to you. If he truly cared about you, he wouldn't want you to run yourself ragged doing all this work for the family and house, he would *want* to help you in order to ease your burden. I really do not understand this thread. I'm getting the sense that there are a lot more "bad" marriages out there than I thought.


I think this is what it comes down to, ultimately. The women interjecting in here with their "I don't get it" or "I wouldn't put up with that" comments are not married to lazy, self involved jerks. So they really *don't* get it. They don't need to. They have husbands who either do all this stuff on their own without having to be asked or do it as soon as they are asked, no problem. If that is you, just be glad you don't get it. You're lucky you don't.


It's not "luck" not to marry or stay with a completely selfish man-baby. That is a CHOICE.


BS. You can do everything right and still find out your DH sucks once you have children. I don't care what you smug people say.


Live your choices.


This is exactly the point of this thread. Find a way to live with our choices.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 16:24     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?


I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.


He SHOULD care about that stuff. He would if you were truly 50/50 partners. You are lowering your standards and settling for something second rate. I don't know why you would do that let alone advise someone else to. Bad idea.


+ 1

New Poster here. I agree. If it matters to you, it should matter to him. It's really that simple. The fact that it doesn't shows disrespect to you. If he truly cared about you, he wouldn't want you to run yourself ragged doing all this work for the family and house, he would *want* to help you in order to ease your burden. I really do not understand this thread. I'm getting the sense that there are a lot more "bad" marriages out there than I thought.


I think this is what it comes down to, ultimately. The women interjecting in here with their "I don't get it" or "I wouldn't put up with that" comments are not married to lazy, self involved jerks. So they really *don't* get it. They don't need to. They have husbands who either do all this stuff on their own without having to be asked or do it as soon as they are asked, no problem. If that is you, just be glad you don't get it. You're lucky you don't.


It's not "luck" not to marry or stay with a completely selfish man-baby. That is a CHOICE.


No, it is luck that some men don't turn into lazy, selfish assholes after getting married and/or having kids. Most of us don'y know how we are going to change.

The choice is whether or not to find a way to deal with the situation we got ourselves into or to get a divorce and put ourselves, kids, livong situation amd finances through hell. If this line of thinking does not lead to peace and stability for my family, then we will get a divorce.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 15:06     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
I used to point out all I did to my DH, all the things around the house, looking for some appreciation. All it did was annoy him that I wanted the time I spent caring for children and home-care and working to be validated and valued.

Ultimately, I stopped looking to him for that validation and value, because I got none back, or worse, I got back resistance because he thought I "shouldn't need to be thanked" and we'd have a fight about the need to say thank you to your spouse for household chores.

Well, that wasn't good either. That took me way in the wrong direction as I then stopped looking for love from him, because he essentially was telling me that my need was stupid, and he wasn't going to meet it. We got emotionally really far apart as my love language (Obviously: words of appreciation) wasn't being met, even when I asked him to, or prompted him to, he really didn't want to do it. Ultimately, I wasn't meeting his needs, either (but, being a DCUM wife, let's just assume I'm perfect, shall we??), so we were both really disconnected from each other.

We are now few years down the line, after anger, resentment, an affair, therapy, books, more anger, etc.

I actually still do the stuff, but I don't expect him to care or notice. I don't point it out any longer, because why unduly annoy him, and, to be honest, he is much better about acknowledging it now. His thanks and acknowledgement mean less than ever, though.

I'm in favor of not letting somebody else's needs dictate your happiness, but I am in favor of continued care of your spouse.

Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 14:44     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yup, I'm learning this too. I take the kids on vacation, go on girls trips and rarely call him. It really seems to help.


Yes to all this, plus extramarital sex. Unlike most men, my husband doesn't like frequent sex or much variety, so having someone else to explore that side with took a lot of pressure off of him.


OK, we're not biting on this. We're not going to accept "have an affair" as good advice to preserve a marriage and keep it healthy. Do you what you want, but you don't get to act like cheating on your spouse is something a good wife and mother does.


It's consistent with the theme of this thread, which is recognize that your partner doesn't exist to make you happy and that you have to make yourself happy. I don't want to be married to anyone else but I refuse to live without good sex. I'm like a stereotypical guy - four or five days without sex and I get very grumpy.


And it wouldn't be OK for a guy, either. You took vows. Definitely legally binding vows, and most likely, religious vows as well. If DH doesn't make "enough" money, it is OK to go steal? Because both theft and adultery are immoral and selfish behaviors.


"Legally binding vows" about sexual fidelity, even in a non-religious ceremony? What?

Isn't emotional or physical withdrawal also not living up to marital vows?
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 13:15     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yup, I'm learning this too. I take the kids on vacation, go on girls trips and rarely call him. It really seems to help.


Yes to all this, plus extramarital sex. Unlike most men, my husband doesn't like frequent sex or much variety, so having someone else to explore that side with took a lot of pressure off of him.


OK, we're not biting on this. We're not going to accept "have an affair" as good advice to preserve a marriage and keep it healthy. Do you what you want, but you don't get to act like cheating on your spouse is something a good wife and mother does.


It's consistent with the theme of this thread, which is recognize that your partner doesn't exist to make you happy and that you have to make yourself happy. I don't want to be married to anyone else but I refuse to live without good sex. I'm like a stereotypical guy - four or five days without sex and I get very grumpy.


And it wouldn't be OK for a guy, either. You took vows. Definitely legally binding vows, and most likely, religious vows as well. If DH doesn't make "enough" money, it is OK to go steal? Because both theft and adultery are immoral and selfish behaviors.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 12:59     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yup, I'm learning this too. I take the kids on vacation, go on girls trips and rarely call him. It really seems to help.


Yes to all this, plus extramarital sex. Unlike most men, my husband doesn't like frequent sex or much variety, so having someone else to explore that side with took a lot of pressure off of him.


OK, we're not biting on this. We're not going to accept "have an affair" as good advice to preserve a marriage and keep it healthy. Do you what you want, but you don't get to act like cheating on your spouse is something a good wife and mother does.


It's consistent with the theme of this thread, which is recognize that your partner doesn't exist to make you happy and that you have to make yourself happy. I don't want to be married to anyone else but I refuse to live without good sex. I'm like a stereotypical guy - four or five days without sex and I get very grumpy.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 12:08     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:30yo doter here. To answer the PP, he doesn't dote back the way I dote on him, but his version of doting is being affectionate, complimentary, and open. Which is what I need. He says thank you when I do his laundry with mine, when I go grocery shopping for the weekend, when I make dinner (I'm off Friday's, he's not). It's a nice thank you, albeit quick, but it's usually after I point out what I did (jeez that sounds annoying. Why do I have to point it out?)
Sometimes I think in my head 'I just schleped around all day for us/you, it's kind of a big deal, acknowledge that...'

But then I've spent time reading this thread and realize - no ones making me do these things. No ones even asking me. So, I think I'm going to scale back. Doting is in my nature so I don't think I could do/ would want to do a 180, but unfortunately I DO need the thank-you's and I DO feel annoyed if I don't get any acknowledgement. I hate admitting that after reading this whole thread.


It's good that you recognize that the "faulty thinking" here lies with you, because it DOES. He's a grown man. If you didn't do his laundry, he'd do his laundry. When you do his laundry, he says thank you. You washed a couple of shirts because you wanted to, you didn't give him a kidney--a quick hank you is all that is needed. Now, if he ASKED you to do his laundry, or if he expected you to, that's a different story; but that is not this story.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 11:57     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
30yo doter here. To answer the PP, he doesn't dote back the way I dote on him, but his version of doting is being affectionate, complimentary, and open. Which is what I need. He says thank you when I do his laundry with mine, when I go grocery shopping for the weekend, when I make dinner (I'm off Friday's, he's not). It's a nice thank you, albeit quick, but it's usually after I point out what I did (jeez that sounds annoying. Why do I have to point it out?)
Sometimes I think in my head 'I just schleped around all day for us/you, it's kind of a big deal, acknowledge that...'

But then I've spent time reading this thread and realize - no ones making me do these things. No ones even asking me. So, I think I'm going to scale back. Doting is in my nature so I don't think I could do/ would want to do a 180, but unfortunately I DO need the thank-you's and I DO feel annoyed if I don't get any acknowledgement. I hate admitting that after reading this whole thread.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 11:40     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
To the doter, before I began working full-time, I would literally spend all day Friday preparing everything for the weekend -- make sure all the laundry was done, groceries were bought, house was clean, movies picked up for movie night along with snacks, etc. No one ever said thank you!

I only heard about how great all that stuff that I used to do on Fridays was when I went back to work and stopped doing it. THat was the point at which my husband said, "Gee, it used to be so terrific when I would come home on Friday night and there would be a warm dinner in the oven and the smell of banana bread and a nice bottle of wine and we were all ready to settle in for the weekend."

It was small comfort to know only in retrospect that he had appreciated those efforts. At the time, no one ever said anything. I felt like the maid and like I was running a hotel.

But the thing is, I also realized that I enjoyed the feeling of having everything ready to go on Friday so that the weekend would be great. I'm working from home today and I'm going to dash out during lunch to get groceries, throw in the laundry, start a nice dinner, etc. THe point isn't not to dote, but it's to not feel bad if it's unrecognized. Like all these posters are saying, if it makes you feel good to do something then go ahead, but don't do it expecting a pat on the head which you might not get.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 10:44     Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I've read a bunch of these stopped caring saved my marriage threads. If stopping caring makes you happy all power to you. But I guess I have a different definition of what a relationship is all about.


Just another person deluding themselves that relationship are like they are in the movies...


PP here - relationships are like in the movies "The War of the Roses" "Mr. & Mrs. Smith", "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf" etc. Movies about Ward and June Cleaver don't sell. Every marriage has conflicts but you can only get through them if you care.


No one is saying stop caring about DH or stop caring about your relationship. It's more like stop caring if he does everything the way I'd do it. Stop trying to control him and everything in the relationship.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 10:41     Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I've read a bunch of these stopped caring saved my marriage threads. If stopping caring makes you happy all power to you. But I guess I have a different definition of what a relationship is all about.


Just another person deluding themselves that relationship are like they are in the movies...


PP here - relationships are like in the movies "The War of the Roses" "Mr. & Mrs. Smith", "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf" etc. Movies about Ward and June Cleaver don't sell. Every marriage has conflicts but you can only get through them if you care.