Anonymous wrote:There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

"I am too precious to be shared with others. So I think I'll cover my head, my arms, my legs at all times in public."

-SAID NO MAN EVER

Anonymous wrote:There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

I'm not the PP who posted the pic of the woman woth the sign comparing uncovered women to unwrapped nasty candy. Nor did I comment on it earlier in this thread. But I think this attitude towards women is misogynistic and vile.

There's lots of breathable fabric to wear in summer, for those who chose to cover themselves. I haven't heard Muslim women died due to heat because of they covered themselves.

As to why, they are believers, no matter at what stage, beginner or pious. Their choices and why are between them and God.

Not all coverage are bad. We'll make our own choices. Some believe they are too precious to be shared with others. Ex: I choose to buy unopened packages of Oreo, rather than the open packages, because I want the best Oreos in the store.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please accept it when muslims say that they wear hijab willingly even if it's because of the religion. Stop telling them about those people outside US that might be forced or pressured to wear it. They have nothing to do with it. Why make them responsible for it. Just drop the issue once you hear the reply from those you get to ask directly.

This seems true for the majority,if not all, of American wearers. The conversation here had moved on to "why", since the Quran doesn't seem to require it, but Hadith may. Some have suggested there's community pressure, or the imam strongly suggested it, others have suggested it's identity politics or a political fu.

It's a type of spiritual practice, which I understand. I understand that a person who wears it may feel they are doing something for God.

However, I personally refuse to believe that God would want a woman to cover every inch of her body in public or in 100 degree heat, or dress in a way that precludes movement, or never get to feel the warm sun on her legs or her arms.

There's no joy in Islam, no love. It's just work, work, work, to avoid the eternal hellfire. Do 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 so you won't piss off God.

I believe a version of this. Human bodies are beautiful because God created them, not despite that, and God wants us to rejoice in our differences. I believe God wants humanity to learn to make good decisions about marriage, family and fighting by using the wisdom he also gave us. Not because he set down a bunch of bean-counting rules about women covering and fighting people who don't tow the line about what we happen to think God wants. God gave us wisdom and brains and judgement, and He wants us to use to live in godly ways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please accept it when muslims say that they wear hijab willingly even if it's because of the religion. Stop telling them about those people outside US that might be forced or pressured to wear it. They have nothing to do with it. Why make them responsible for it. Just drop the issue once you hear the reply from those you get to ask directly.

This seems true for the majority,if not all, of American wearers. The conversation here had moved on to "why", since the Quran doesn't seem to require it, but Hadith may. Some have suggested there's community pressure, or the imam strongly suggested it, others have suggested it's identity politics or a political fu.

It's a type of spiritual practice, which I understand. I understand that a person who wears it may feel they are doing something for God.

However, I personally refuse to believe that God would want a woman to cover every inch of her body in public or in 100 degree heat, or dress in a way that precludes movement, or never get to feel the warm sun on her legs or her arms.

There's no joy in Islam, no love. It's just work, work, work, to avoid the eternal hellfire. Do 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 so you won't piss off God.

Anonymous wrote:Please accept it when muslims say that they wear hijab willingly even if it's because of the religion. Stop telling them about those people outside US that might be forced or pressured to wear it. They have nothing to do with it. Why make them responsible for it. Just drop the issue once you hear the reply from those you get to ask directly.

This seems true for the majority,if not all, of American wearers. The conversation here had moved on to "why", since the Quran doesn't seem to require it, but Hadith may. Some have suggested there's community pressure, or the imam strongly suggested it, others have suggested it's identity politics or a political fu.

Please accept it when muslims say that they wear hijab willingly even if it's because of the religion. Stop telling them about those people outside US that might be forced or pressured to wear it. They have nothing to do with it. Why make them responsible for it. Just drop the issue once you hear the reply from those you get to ask directly.

My wife doesn't wear hijab, but she has said that she want's to start wearing it in a few years. I don't really mind either way, but sort of prefer that she doesn't. We're not super religious, but it will be her decision and I won't try to persuade her in either direction. Not every woman that wears Hijab does so because they "have to". My 2 cents!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. We've all seen these photos. After the Shah was overthrown, women were set back decades. They began protesting. Look at their Westernized clothing. What has happened ever since?

brainwashing

Head coverings have been used to either subjugate women or to separate them by class. The more elaborate the material, the higher the social class.

After the overthrow of Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi and the Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979, women were once again obliged to wear veils in public, a practice that had largely been abandoned during the Shah's reign. Many women were outraged by this decision and protested against it in public

You need to stop eulogizing the Shah - a corrupt, oppressive ruler whose departure was lauded - and start getting it into your head that a country is made up of more than a couple of photos. Many women {in the educated urban elite class} were outraged by this decision. Many more women outside the cities covered all their lives and continued to do so. You will be well served to remember that ayatolla's return to Iran was nothing short of triumphant.

Well, I have a good friend whose parents were under the Shah. They loved him. They loved how the country was evolving - freedom, technological advancements, etc. Maybe you need some new friends who can give you the real deal.

My father was a prominent physician in Iran under the Shah and stayed for a while after the revolution and he feels quite different about the situation under the Shah than your friend's parents. So clearly their view isn't the only "real deal." Even with a gun to his head, my dad wouldn't say he loved the Shah. Neither would my mother, who came from a very powerful and prominent family in Iran, with plenty of ties to the Shah. Post-revolution, my female family members all pursued higher education. Half a dozen or so female cousins are physicians (two own hospitals), a few are engineers, a few are teachers, one is an architect, one a successful artist and gallery owner, and one received her Ph.D. but decided to open a bakery because she loves baking. They weren't oppressed, they studied the same way we did, they traveled and studied abroad, they wear the latest designer clothes straight out of fashion week, and are all very happy and successful. They've all also had the opportunity to leave Iran but have chosen to stay.

Iranian women have nice eyes. Let's see the rest of ya!

That the Shah was oppressive and corrupt, stealing millions from the country to set himself and his family up, IS the real deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. We've all seen these photos. After the Shah was overthrown, women were set back decades. They began protesting. Look at their Westernized clothing. What has happened ever since?

brainwashing

Head coverings have been used to either subjugate women or to separate them by class. The more elaborate the material, the higher the social class.

After the overthrow of Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi and the Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979, women were once again obliged to wear veils in public, a practice that had largely been abandoned during the Shah's reign. Many women were outraged by this decision and protested against it in public

You need to stop eulogizing the Shah - a corrupt, oppressive ruler whose departure was lauded - and start getting it into your head that a country is made up of more than a couple of photos. Many women {in the educated urban elite class} were outraged by this decision. Many more women outside the cities covered all their lives and continued to do so. You will be well served to remember that ayatolla's return to Iran was nothing short of triumphant.

Well, I have a good friend whose parents were under the Shah. They loved him. They loved how the country was evolving - freedom, technological advancements, etc. Maybe you need some new friends who can give you the real deal.

Anonymous wrote:I am Muslim, and I do not wear hijab. My mother does not wear hijab. My father never encouraged me to wear hijab. In fact, he was very against it. There is a classist element in the Muslim world. The Arab, East Asian, and African elites (with their fancy American educations and Euro vacations) look down on hijab as a working class symbol. I run away from any man who says he wants me to wear hijab. I know many Muslim women who did not wear one at all when single, but started wearing it after marriage and a first kid at the request of a husband. It makes me sad because I know they miss dressing up or down the way they used to.

My parents never forced Hijab on me as my own mother was not wearing it until her 50's. My parents did not grow up in religious families and didn't understand religion fully till adulthood. I personally, never look down at any woman wearing hijab. In fact, I always thought of such women as brave souls. I wonder if you look down at Hijabi doctors, lawyers, university professors, scientists...do you perceive them as a working class with blue collar job because of their hijab?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. We've all seen these photos. After the Shah was overthrown, women were set back decades. They began protesting. Look at their Westernized clothing. What has happened ever since?

brainwashing

Head coverings have been used to either subjugate women or to separate them by class. The more elaborate the material, the higher the social class.

After the overthrow of Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi and the Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979, women were once again obliged to wear veils in public, a practice that had largely been abandoned during the Shah's reign. Many women were outraged by this decision and protested against it in public

You need to stop eulogizing the Shah - a corrupt, oppressive ruler whose departure was lauded - and start getting it into your head that a country is made up of more than a couple of photos. Many women {in the educated urban elite class} were outraged by this decision. Many more women outside the cities covered all their lives and continued to do so. You will be well served to remember that ayatolla's return to Iran was nothing short of triumphant.

Many educated Iranians celebrated the Ayatollah's return too, because as you say, the Shah was corrupt, associated with a US coup in the 1950s, and so on. But they without veils on because they assumed they'd continue to be allowed to decide for themselves. That didn't happen.

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. We've all seen these photos. After the Shah was overthrown, women were set back decades. They began protesting. Look at their Westernized clothing. What has happened ever since?

brainwashing

Head coverings have been used to either subjugate women or to separate them by class. The more elaborate the material, the higher the social class.

After the overthrow of Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi and the Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979, women were once again obliged to wear veils in public, a practice that had largely been abandoned during the Shah's reign. Many women were outraged by this decision and protested against it in public

You need to stop eulogizing the Shah - a corrupt, oppressive ruler whose departure was lauded - and start getting it into your head that a country is made up of more than a couple of photos. Many women {in the educated urban elite class} were outraged by this decision. Many more women outside the cities covered all their lives and continued to do so. You will be well served to remember that ayatolla's return to Iran was nothing short of triumphant.