Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 23:58     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was googling and I found this preview by Mona Eltahawy, page 32 starts to talk about hijabs and brings up a lot of the points brought up in this thread:

https://books.google.com/books?id=0v-cBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Most importantly to some pps, she's not white!

It's not "neocolonialism" to look at a backwards practice and decide it's backwards. Being white does not mean you are precluded from making any observations ever.

-non white person

Aren't you curious at all about why women who cover continue to cover, in their own words? Why are you only seeking out opinions that match your own?


Would be interested in your reasons for covering.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 23:12     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This discussion is a great example of white neocolonialism running amok, concerned white women wringing their hands over how to transform uncultured natives.

Have any of you ever asked a living, breathing, woman why she wears a headscarf?


The Wahabis are the neocolonialist here, PP. Study up on your Middle East history. The Wahhabis, using KSA petrol bucks, have been pushing the niqab on many middle eastern communities where it didn't exist several decades ago.

Don't need to - grew up in a Muslim-majority area, women always covered their hair, not current turtle-hijab style, but head always covered.


It's very likely that many had strands of hair showing and if a woman chose not to veil, she didn't get all that much harassment from men or a morals police, right?

Now we have the turtle-hijab, the niqab covering the face, and a lot more societal pressure to veil.

The point PPs have been making is that women's choices have been narrowing and going backwards. For which we can thank the Wahhabis and the fundamentalists driving the ideologies behind the Taliban, Daesh (talk about your neo-colonialists!) and more. In fact, morals police and the like are a type of moral imperialism against women, including those of other faiths, who would prefer not to veil - don't you think?

Lots of hair showing but everyone wore a headscarf. It wasn't optional.


That's the point, isn't it. Now every strand of hair has to be covered by a turtle hijab (at least; in some places more) or the woman faces censure from those around her. So many Muslim societies have moved, over the past few decades, to make the showing of a few strands of hair an issue of piety--or really, lack thereof. Yet the Quran is unclear about covering hair.

Women's hair has become an ideological battleground, despite Quranic ambivalence on the subject. It's hard to argue that this hasn't restricted choice - for women who want a loose scarf (and of course women in ISIS-controlled territories who oppose the extremes mandated there) or even no scarf at all.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 22:43     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was googling and I found this preview by Mona Eltahawy, page 32 starts to talk about hijabs and brings up a lot of the points brought up in this thread:

https://books.google.com/books?id=0v-cBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Most importantly to some pps, she's not white!

It's not "neocolonialism" to look at a backwards practice and decide it's backwards. Being white does not mean you are precluded from making any observations ever.

-non white person

Aren't you curious at all about why women who cover continue to cover, in their own words? Why are you only seeking out opinions that match your own?


Says who- you, anonymous person who does not know me? I am FROM a Muslim country. I have lived in a Muslim country, as one of the few women without hijab. I don't look down at women who wear hijab, I have many Muslim friends. Where I am from, at least, I believe that people felt their religion was synonymous with their identity, and had to make displays of their piety. This went for Christians AND Muslims alike, and I felt it was a suffocating way to live your life either way. When the entire society has to make a big show of piety, it's like your choice is taken away because there is so much pressure for YOU to make a show of piety.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 22:37     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was googling and I found this preview by Mona Eltahawy, page 32 starts to talk about hijabs and brings up a lot of the points brought up in this thread:

https://books.google.com/books?id=0v-cBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Most importantly to some pps, she's not white!

It's not "neocolonialism" to look at a backwards practice and decide it's backwards. Being white does not mean you are precluded from making any observations ever.

-non white person

Aren't you curious at all about why women who cover continue to cover, in their own words? Why are you only seeking out opinions that match your own?


The comments to the Salon article posted upthread ranged from censuring and condemning to sympathetic. There were several comments by women who felt the same as the author, but continued to cover.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 22:34     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This discussion is a great example of white neocolonialism running amok, concerned white women wringing their hands over how to transform uncultured natives.

Have any of you ever asked a living, breathing, woman why she wears a headscarf?


The Wahabis are the neocolonialist here, PP. Study up on your Middle East history. The Wahhabis, using KSA petrol bucks, have been pushing the niqab on many middle eastern communities where it didn't exist several decades ago.

Don't need to - grew up in a Muslim-majority area, women always covered their hair, not current turtle-hijab style, but head always covered.


It's very likely that many had strands of hair showing and if a woman chose not to veil, she didn't get all that much harassment from men or a morals police, right?

Now we have the turtle-hijab, the niqab covering the face, and a lot more societal pressure to veil.

The point PPs have been making is that women's choices have been narrowing and going backwards. For which we can thank the Wahhabis and the fundamentalists driving the ideologies behind the Taliban, Daesh (talk about your neo-colonialists!) and more. In fact, morals police and the like are a type of moral imperialism against women, including those of other faiths, who would prefer not to veil - don't you think?

Lots of hair showing but everyone wore a headscarf. It wasn't optional.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 22:33     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:I was googling and I found this preview by Mona Eltahawy, page 32 starts to talk about hijabs and brings up a lot of the points brought up in this thread:

https://books.google.com/books?id=0v-cBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Most importantly to some pps, she's not white!

It's not "neocolonialism" to look at a backwards practice and decide it's backwards. Being white does not mean you are precluded from making any observations ever.

-non white person

Aren't you curious at all about why women who cover continue to cover, in their own words? Why are you only seeking out opinions that match your own?
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 20:58     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:I was googling and I found this preview by Mona Eltahawy, page 32 starts to talk about hijabs and brings up a lot of the points brought up in this thread:

https://books.google.com/books?id=0v-cBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Most importantly to some pps, she's not white!

It's not "neocolonialism" to look at a backwards practice and decide it's backwards. Being white does not mean you are precluded from making any observations ever.

-non white person


Google wouldn't show me page 32, but I found this NYT op-ed piece by Mona Eltahawy. One thing she says is that while the decision to wear the hijab is pretty easy, the decision to stop wearing it is much more difficult owing to family pressure. She wore a hijab for nine years, eight of which she spent trying to stop wearing it.

Since she'd outed herself on being an ex-hijaby she has met many women who wear a hijab who have sought her advice on how to stop wearing one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/opinion/mona-eltahawy-my-unveiling-ceremony.html
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 20:42     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
One woman's journey from uncovered to covered to back again. I was struck by this bit:

"Despite being one of the countless poster girls for butt-kicking, empowered hijabis, I realized that I could not reconcile the practice of hijab with my own beliefs. Ultimately, I feel like hijab helps reinforce the idea that spirituality is somehow proportional to how covered someone’s body is."

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/25/why_i_stopped_wearing_hijab/

Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 20:25     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
I was googling and I found this preview by Mona Eltahawy, page 32 starts to talk about hijabs and brings up a lot of the points brought up in this thread:

https://books.google.com/books?id=0v-cBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Most importantly to some pps, she's not white!

It's not "neocolonialism" to look at a backwards practice and decide it's backwards. Being white does not mean you are precluded from making any observations ever.

-non white person
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 19:52     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This discussion is a great example of white neocolonialism running amok, concerned white women wringing their hands over how to transform uncultured natives.

Have any of you ever asked a living, breathing, woman why she wears a headscarf?


The Wahabis are the neocolonialist here, PP. Study up on your Middle East history. The Wahhabis, using KSA petrol bucks, have been pushing the niqab on many middle eastern communities where it didn't exist several decades ago.

Don't need to - grew up in a Muslim-majority area, women always covered their hair, not current turtle-hijab style, but head always covered.


It's very likely that many had strands of hair showing and if a woman chose not to veil, she didn't get all that much harassment from men or a morals police, right?

Now we have the turtle-hijab, the niqab covering the face, and a lot more societal pressure to veil.

The point PPs have been making is that women's choices have been narrowing and going backwards. For which we can thank the Wahhabis and the fundamentalists driving the ideologies behind the Taliban, Daesh (talk about your neo-colonialists!) and more. In fact, morals police and the like are a type of moral imperialism against women, including those of other faiths, who would prefer not to veil - don't you think?
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 19:29     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, know a lot of Muslim women. Know fewer who wear hijab. One wears extremely elaborate eye makeup--gold eye shadow for going out to dinner. One is tiresome and arrogant and feels obliged to lecture on Islam to ignorant westerners--never mind I probably know more about Islam than she does. Oh, and her hijabs are custom made and she wears green contacts and flirts with men. Two others are ordinary housewives, one of whom can go on quite interminably about her illnesses. Another is an American who married a Muslim, who does outreach on anti-Muslim bigotry.

Frankly didn't not see it as my place to ask any of them why they wear the hijab. But in terms of personality and accomplishment, the non-hijabi Muslim women I know run circles around the hijabi lot. This includes the Saudi women I know who wear neither niqab nor hijab when they are in the US.

Oh I see. Now it's like "non-hijabis are superior human beings"?


Nope. Just my personal experience. I did report earlier about a hijabi who gave me extraordinary customer service once when I was stricken in a store.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 19:26     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This discussion is a great example of white neocolonialism running amok, concerned white women wringing their hands over how to transform uncultured natives.

Have any of you ever asked a living, breathing, woman why she wears a headscarf?


Thanks, but I'm not white, I'm Arab-American, just like neither of the authors are white, and we all happen to think hijabs are an innovation that has backrolled progress for women in the Muslim world.

Sorry not sorry.

Well, have you used your language skills to ask your Arab sisters why they might choose to cover?
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 19:22     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This discussion is a great example of white neocolonialism running amok, concerned white women wringing their hands over how to transform uncultured natives.

Have any of you ever asked a living, breathing, woman why she wears a headscarf?


The Wahabis are the neocolonialist here, PP. Study up on your Middle East history. The Wahhabis, using KSA petrol bucks, have been pushing the niqab on many middle eastern communities where it didn't exist several decades ago.

Don't need to - grew up in a Muslim-majority area, women always covered their hair, not current turtle-hijab style, but head always covered.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 19:20     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:Yes, know a lot of Muslim women. Know fewer who wear hijab. One wears extremely elaborate eye makeup--gold eye shadow for going out to dinner. One is tiresome and arrogant and feels obliged to lecture on Islam to ignorant westerners--never mind I probably know more about Islam than she does. Oh, and her hijabs are custom made and she wears green contacts and flirts with men. Two others are ordinary housewives, one of whom can go on quite interminably about her illnesses. Another is an American who married a Muslim, who does outreach on anti-Muslim bigotry.

Frankly didn't not see it as my place to ask any of them why they wear the hijab. But in terms of personality and accomplishment, the non-hijabi Muslim women I know run circles around the hijabi lot. This includes the Saudi women I know who wear neither niqab nor hijab when they are in the US.

Oh I see. Now it's like "non-hijabis are superior human beings"?
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2016 19:11     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Yes, know a lot of Muslim women. Know fewer who wear hijab. One wears extremely elaborate eye makeup--gold eye shadow for going out to dinner. One is tiresome and arrogant and feels obliged to lecture on Islam to ignorant westerners--never mind I probably know more about Islam than she does. Oh, and her hijabs are custom made and she wears green contacts and flirts with men. Two others are ordinary housewives, one of whom can go on quite interminably about her illnesses. Another is an American who married a Muslim, who does outreach on anti-Muslim bigotry.

Frankly didn't not see it as my place to ask any of them why they wear the hijab. But in terms of personality and accomplishment, the non-hijabi Muslim women I know run circles around the hijabi lot. This includes the Saudi women I know who wear neither niqab nor hijab when they are in the US.