Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 10:03     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:Ill bite - I am 32 and my DH is 30. Our HHI is 175k and two big reasons we aren't having kids yet - in the immediate we can't afford it (day care is upwards of $1600-1800 a month in DC) and in the long term we can't afford it (our under grad institutions are pushing 60k+ per year NOW) and the other reason is most of our friends aren't even married at this point and the ones that are have not had kids. If we had a kid we would only be breaking even for the next few years and would be in debt if we had 2 and were paying for daycare. Husband is a JD working government and I work in the non profit world and have only a BA.


This is so sad to me I don't think people should have kids if they don't want them. That is clearly a disaster in the making. But if you do want them, I hope you go for it. They turn into people you love - often the most important people in the world to you. How can you (society in general, people in this thread) say they don't enrich one's life?
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:56     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think it is harder to raise children in an affluent society because there is less of a family community. My DH was raised in a developing country and his mother worked. An older relative of his mother's brother in law offered to stay with her kids, for free, so she could work. She was an older lady and she didn't mind. According to DH, it all went very smoothly. Would your brother in law's older aunt want to stay with your kids for free? It's just not something I can imagine happening in a wealthier society.


People do that at all income levels in the USA if they live near each other. Get off the MY COUNTRY stuff.


I don't know, I haven't seen that.


I haven't either. IME that kind of thing is more common among people with fewer resources, which makes sense I suppose. The richer you get, the more life turns into a game of every man for himself.


I haven't either. My in laws live two hours away and haven't visited in years. They expect us to visit often though.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:54     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Have you talked to many old people in the US? How many of them wish that they could live with their children/grandchildren instead of living independently as long as they can (or longer)?


Of course, they want to live independently.

But there is a price to pay for independence - loneliness and a distance from children/grandchildren. And lack of support network.

Asian and Slavic cultures don't have that problem. My MIL who lives in the same city sees her child and grandchild maybe once a month on average. In other cultures it would be unthinkable.


Agreed - a lot of this is cultural. Asian, Hispanic, and Slavic families tend to have multi-generational households. Italians often don't leave their neighborhood/immediate area, so grandma live just across town and can pick up the kids everyday from school.
We are Anglo-Irish - everyone in my family is dispersed some place different across the country. Therefore, I don't have the local support network, if I had kids. Lots of Americans from Anglo-Irish and Western European backgrounds are similar in this regard.
My fiancee is Jewish - everyone still lives nearby in the DC metro area and relies on the family network. Except the wealthy ones and diplomats, who can afford to hire the best care 24/7.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:53     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think it is harder to raise children in an affluent society because there is less of a family community. My DH was raised in a developing country and his mother worked. An older relative of his mother's brother in law offered to stay with her kids, for free, so she could work. She was an older lady and she didn't mind. According to DH, it all went very smoothly. Would your brother in law's older aunt want to stay with your kids for free? It's just not something I can imagine happening in a wealthier society.


People do that at all income levels in the USA if they live near each other. Get off the MY COUNTRY stuff.


I don't know, I haven't seen that.


I haven't either. IME that kind of thing is more common among people with fewer resources, which makes sense I suppose. The richer you get, the more life turns into a game of every man for himself.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:42     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Honestly, I'm childfree but I think people should have as many kids as they want. Just because you can't handle more children doesn't mean that's true for others.


I can't handle and I'm not. I see many others that can't handle them, but they are having them.

My one friend had 3 kids who grew up in front of TV because she was too busy and all have behavioral problems.

Another had 3 kids. She's overwhelmed. They wear dirty socks and underwear several days in a row. Their teeth are rotten because she's too tired to enforce brushing. They live in a complete mess.

A third family of 4 kids come to our church. The father completly checked out. The mother ignores them when she can. They also lack in hygiene and occasionally someone will catch her three year old running the streets because he sneaked outside while she was checked out.

Honestly, I know only one family that handles their four kids well.


I don't know why you know so many people who can't handle basic adult responsibilities (they can't enforce teeth brushing? Or do laundry?) but I assure you, these families and their problems are very unusual among the UMC DC demographics of this board.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:41     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Have you talked to many old people in the US? How many of them wish that they could live with their children/grandchildren instead of living independently as long as they can (or longer)?


Of course, they want to live independently.

But there is a price to pay for independence - loneliness and a distance from children/grandchildren. And lack of support network.

Asian and Slavic cultures don't have that problem. My MIL who lives in the same city sees her child and grandchild maybe once a month on average. In other cultures it would be unthinkable.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:39     Subject: Re:Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Well it's interesting because IME wealthy people, or at least UMC people, are having larger families again. "Three is the new two" and all that.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:32     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:. Americans do not help others out like that. I can't even get a friend to watch my dog over a weekend so I could fly to my grandpa's funeral. No one would watch a baby here, not even MILs.


That's so true. Grandparents here are independent, have their own lives, and are not nearly as helpful as grandparents in developing countries. The downside of that is that they end up lonely, alone in their houses with rare visits from the family. And then they stick them in a retirement home.


Have you talked to many old people in the US? How many of them wish that they could live with their children/grandchildren instead of living independently as long as they can (or longer)?
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:31     Subject: Re:Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What a mean spirited thread. But this being DCUM, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


it's not mean spirited. its a good discussion because no matter what - rich white countries or poor white countries, white birth rates are below replacement.


Panic! The world is running low on white people!


No panic yet but as we steadily make the move further and further into a majority-minority country and more minority members assume positions of responsibility, exert more political clout, exercise their strength as consumers, demonstrate their value in the labor force, and become more integral to the nation’s success - trust me - panic will ensue.


Panic is already ensuing.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:29     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:. Americans do not help others out like that. I can't even get a friend to watch my dog over a weekend so I could fly to my grandpa's funeral. No one would watch a baby here, not even MILs.


That's so true. Grandparents here are independent, have their own lives, and are not nearly as helpful as grandparents in developing countries. The downside of that is that they end up lonely, alone in their houses with rare visits from the family. And then they stick them in a retirement home.


Bull. My grandma just passed, and she was cared for for 10 years by my mother and my aunt. They even moved next door to each other to share responsibility. Now, near the end, a home would have been better for everyone. She needed such intense care. But, it's just not true that American families all do this.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:28     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:

Honestly, I'm childfree but I think people should have as many kids as they want. Just because you can't handle more children doesn't mean that's true for others.


I can't handle and I'm not. I see many others that can't handle them, but they are having them.

My one friend had 3 kids who grew up in front of TV because she was too busy and all have behavioral problems.

Another had 3 kids. She's overwhelmed. They wear dirty socks and underwear several days in a row. Their teeth are rotten because she's too tired to enforce brushing. They live in a complete mess.

A third family of 4 kids come to our church. The father completly checked out. The mother ignores them when she can. They also lack in hygiene and occasionally someone will catch her three year old running the streets because he sneaked outside while she was checked out.

Honestly, I know only one family that handles their four kids well.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:21     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think it is harder to raise children in an affluent society because there is less of a family community. My DH was raised in a developing country and his mother worked. An older relative of his mother's brother in law offered to stay with her kids, for free, so she could work. She was an older lady and she didn't mind. According to DH, it all went very smoothly. Would your brother in law's older aunt want to stay with your kids for free? It's just not something I can imagine happening in a wealthier society.


People do that at all income levels in the USA if they live near each other. Get off the MY COUNTRY stuff.


I don't know, I haven't seen that.


It will be more common in the future as multi-generational households grow due to the sheer cost of housing skyrocketing and wage suppression occuring everywhere.


Not pp, but no way. Americans do not help others out like that. I can't even get a friend to watch my dog over a weekend so I could fly to my grandpa's funeral. No one would watch a baby here, not even MILs.


Sorry you have such a crap support network, but I know plenty of American families with this set up. My parents would do it if we lived in the same town. They do drop everything and come help when we need it. Our next door neighbors watch our animals so my husband could go last minute out of town to visit his father with cancer while I was out of town with my parents and children just a month ago. When we had to go last minute for a week out of town, we were able to get a couple people lined up, one to take our dog to their house and another to watch our cat at ours.

Now, will parents be capable of caring for young children as they age? Maybe, maybe not. But I do think that we will start seeing more multi generational houses in the future.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:20     Subject: Re:Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What a mean spirited thread. But this being DCUM, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


it's not mean spirited. its a good discussion because no matter what - rich white countries or poor white countries, white birth rates are below replacement.


Panic! The world is running low on white people!


No panic yet but as we steadily make the move further and further into a majority-minority country and more minority members assume positions of responsibility, exert more political clout, exercise their strength as consumers, demonstrate their value in the labor force, and become more integral to the nation’s success - trust me - panic will ensue.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:18     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:. Americans do not help others out like that. I can't even get a friend to watch my dog over a weekend so I could fly to my grandpa's funeral. No one would watch a baby here, not even MILs.


That's so true. Grandparents here are independent, have their own lives, and are not nearly as helpful as grandparents in developing countries. The downside of that is that they end up lonely, alone in their houses with rare visits from the family. And then they stick them in a retirement home.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2015 09:17     Subject: Why are white people all around the world not having kids?
Anonymous wrote:I'm white and we are only have one child. Mostly it's because it's a huge investment of money and time. I'm not sure we could afford more and we are solid middle class. If we had more I wouldn't be able to focus on my career.

Also, since the planet is already trashed and natural resources are becoming scarce we don't need more people, we need better quality people.

When I see other white families with 4-5 kids I think it's very irresponsible. I believe they are having them to make themselves feel better, like they are doing something worthwhile because they failed at other things. None of them that I know can afford kids' college, they barely make ends meet.


Honestly, I'm childfree but I think people should have as many kids as they want. Just because you can't handle more children doesn't mean that's true for others.