Anonymous wrote:So why do we even have separate locker rooms anyway? Men and women can share the same locker room. You come in and you do your own things. Don't look at other people's genitals. Japan has mixed gender changing rooms and shower facilities for centuries. Sexual attacks are almost unheard of in these places. All places have administrative staff on site.

Becaus Americans are prudes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am glad this came out. I have a gym at work, but am changing jobs. I will need a new gym. I am glad that I won't have to consider this gym. I am grateful they publish their policy, allowing me to make an informed choice to choose elsewhere.

Good luck with that. For the most part, society is moving forward. You very likely have already shared a public bathroom or locker room with a transgender person, and gay person, many, many, many times. Your ignorance may be giving you bliss, but it's not for lack of interacting with a transgender person.

I don't have a problem with lesbians in the women's locker room. After all, they are women. I do have a problem with a man in the women's room. It matters not that he thinks he is a woman. He is a man undergoing a process to be a fake woman. All the surgery in the world does not make a he a she and vice versa. Just like all the surgery in the world will not make Madonna look like she is still twenty-fives years old.. She's still fifty-five with expensive surgery Reveling in her mental delusions, and a transgende is still a man with expensive surgery Reveling in his mental delusions.

Anonymous wrote:I am glad this came out. I have a gym at work, but am changing jobs. I will need a new gym. I am glad that I won't have to consider this gym. I am grateful they publish their policy, allowing me to make an informed choice to choose elsewhere.

Good luck with that. For the most part, society is moving forward. You very likely have already shared a public bathroom or locker room with a transgender person, and gay person, many, many, many times. Your ignorance may be giving you bliss, but it's not for lack of interacting with a transgender person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You'd be comfortable sending your teenaged daughter into a changing room with grown men? How is that not what we're talking about? Some people are uncomfortable with people who appear to be male changing in the women's locker room. Many posters have said that it shouldn't matter because no one should be looking. If that's the case, why separate us at all? No one should be looking, and we should all be totally cool with penises in the women's locker room.

Because we are actually talking about sending your teenaged daughter into a changing room with grown women.

But thank you for bringing up the real reason why there are gendered changing rooms -- namely, not to protect men from the sight of women's naked bodies and women from the sight of men's naked bodies, but rather to protect women (including transwomen) from being attacked by men.

Do transgenders have the equip,net to physically attack women like any other man? Are you saying that transgenders are not attracted to women because they have a desire to be a woman?

For one thing, we are talking about people, not "transgenders". (Or "cisgenders".)

For another thing, gender identity is different from sexuality. Some women are attracted to women, some women are attracted to men, some men are attracted to women, some men are attracted to men, some women are attracted to women and men, some men are attracted to men and women, and some men and women are not attracted to anybody. All of this is just as true for ciswomen and cismen as it is for transwomen and transmen.

For a third thing, the relationship between sexual assault and sexuality is -- well, not straightforward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You'd be comfortable sending your teenaged daughter into a changing room with grown men? How is that not what we're talking about? Some people are uncomfortable with people who appear to be male changing in the women's locker room. Many posters have said that it shouldn't matter because no one should be looking. If that's the case, why separate us at all? No one should be looking, and we should all be totally cool with penises in the women's locker room.

Because we are actually talking about sending your teenaged daughter into a changing room with grown women.

But thank you for bringing up the real reason why there are gendered changing rooms -- namely, not to protect men from the sight of women's naked bodies and women from the sight of men's naked bodies, but rather to protect women (including transwomen) from being attacked by men.

Do transgenders have the equip,net to physically attack women like any other man? Are you saying that transgenders are not attracted to women because they have a desire to be a woman?

Anonymous wrote:

Exactly, but these supporters are saying a transgender comfort is more important than your discomfort. At the same time, most of them also say they are uncomfortable with six year old boys in a female locker room. Men are acceptable, but little boys are not. PC run amok

Actually, what people are saying is that one person's safety takes precedence over another person's discomfort. People have a right to not get attacked. People do not have a right to feel comfortable.

Anonymous wrote:You'd be comfortable sending your teenaged daughter into a changing room with grown men? How is that not what we're talking about? Some people are uncomfortable with people who appear to be male changing in the women's locker room. Many posters have said that it shouldn't matter because no one should be looking. If that's the case, why separate us at all? No one should be looking, and we should all be totally cool with penises in the women's locker room.

Because we are actually talking about sending your teenaged daughter into a changing room with grown women.

But thank you for bringing up the real reason why there are gendered changing rooms -- namely, not to protect men from the sight of women's naked bodies and women from the sight of men's naked bodies, but rather to protect women (including transwomen) from being attacked by men.

I am glad this came out. I have a gym at work, but am changing jobs. I will need a new gym. I am glad that I won't have to consider this gym. I am grateful they publish their policy, allowing me to make an informed choice to choose elsewhere.

Here's the thing. Some people really do have ambiguous genitalia and the doctors and parents pretty much guessed and raised the kid according to their best guess. Kid grows up feeling "off" and realizes they were raised a boy when they really are meant to be a girl, or vice versa. I think there are also cases of mixed up chromosomes like xxx or xxy which can also mess things up. I think by and large these are the people we're dealing with as transgendered. There probably are some mentally ill people or just plain weirdos in the mix but my money is on the majority of them having a bona fide physical defect that caused them to be raised as the wrong gender. For those people, I support them using whichever locker room they prefer. Can you imagine how awful it would be to be in the wrong body, to not match what your brain is telling you you are? To always feel different, to never blend in, always be stared at and mocked? Very few people would choose that.

That said, I am not sure anyone in this thread is really complained about someone who has ambiguous genitals using the locker room they identify with. The concern is the weirdos and psychopaths falsely claiming to be trans in order to gain access to women's locker rooms for nefarious purposes. I think that's what the whole debate is over.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do the knuckle-draggers on this thread think about the many states that permit transgender students to use the restrooms and gym facilities with the other girls (or other boys)?

This is a friend of mine, and her incredibly courageous kid:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/about-a-girl-coy-mathis-fight-to-change-change-gender-20131028

You wouldn't believe the hostility and ignorance that has been slung at this family, just so the kid could use the girl's bathroom. Death threats. Against a six-year-old. Who is no threat to anyone except those who need sex divided into neat little boxes.

Seriously. When you start to sling shit about transgender people, think of this little kid. That's who you're attacking.

feel sorry for the kid. I think in 25 years we will know a lot more about theses issues and regret many things that we did in the name of misunderstood science and medicine.

Coy doesn't need your pity. She's flourishing.

Anonymous wrote:What do the knuckle-draggers on this thread think about the many states that permit transgender students to use the restrooms and gym facilities with the other girls (or other boys)?

This is a friend of mine, and her incredibly courageous kid:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/about-a-girl-coy-mathis-fight-to-change-change-gender-20131028

You wouldn't believe the hostility and ignorance that has been slung at this family, just so the kid could use the girl's bathroom. Death threats. Against a six-year-old. Who is no threat to anyone except those who need sex divided into neat little boxes.

Seriously. When you start to sling shit about transgender people, think of this little kid. That's who you're attacking.

feel sorry for the kid. I think in 25 years we will know a lot more about theses issues and regret many things that we did in the name of misunderstood science and medicine.

What do the knuckle-draggers on this thread think about the many states that permit transgender students to use the restrooms and gym facilities with the other girls (or other boys)?

This is a friend of mine, and her incredibly courageous kid:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/about-a-girl-coy-mathis-fight-to-change-change-gender-20131028

You wouldn't believe the hostility and ignorance that has been slung at this family, just so the kid could use the girl's bathroom. Death threats. Against a six-year-old. Who is no threat to anyone except those who need sex divided into neat little boxes.

Seriously. When you start to sling shit about transgender people, think of this little kid. That's who you're attacking.

Anonymous wrote:You'd be comfortable sending your teenaged daughter into a changing room with grown men? How is that not what we're talking about? Some people are uncomfortable with people who appear to be male changing in the women's locker room. Many posters have said that it shouldn't matter because no one should be looking. If that's the case, why separate us at all? No one should be looking, and we should all be totally cool with penises in the women's locker room.

I would have no problem sending my teenage daughter into a changing room with a transgender woman, which is what we're talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm as liberal and PC as the next person, but I think I have a right to reasonably expect the female locker room to be for vaginas. I have a right to be comfortable too, and a penis in the locker room would definitely make me uncomfortable. You can say its a personal failing, but we have separate bathrooms for a reason.

What is that reason?

Also, vaginas are internal. If you're going about your business in the locker room, and the other people are going about their business in the locker room, you're not going to be seeing any vaginas.

I knew when I typed that that some idiot would feel the need to correct me. You know what the hell I mean.

Men and women are different. Some women are uncomfortable changing under the eyes of strange men, and vice versa. If I don't see your penis, fine, but if I do I will be uncomfortable. I think I have a right to not be put in that position in the ladies dressing room. I understand that transgender people have their own fears and threats, but I don't think the solution is to say screw the comfort of everyone else.

Exactly, but these supporters are saying a transgender comfort is more important than your discomfort. At the same time, most of them also say they are uncomfortable with six year old boys in a female locker room. Men are acceptable, but little boys are not. PC run amok

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Did this woman actually see a penis? Or did she just see a very masculine looking woman?

No she saw a woman who was broad shouldered and tall walk in and retrieve her purse from a locker.

So all this talk of seeing penises in the women's locker room is not applicable to this situation at all, then.

I have several transgender friends (men and women), and one thing I can tell you is that they are absolutely not displaying their genitals in a gym locker room. They change in the bathroom stalls. I know this because I've *GASP* been to the gym AND the swimming pool with them.