Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, you want victims to come forward? Then create an environment where they feel safe doing that. Vigorously oppose victim blaming, stop grilling women on what they were wearing or were they drinking, don't tolorate intimidation or harassment of victims, and create an environment where men are not only taught not to rape but not to prey on women. Otherwise, what's the point of coming forward, getting your life torn apart again, where there is almost no chance that justice will be done?

Seriously. Anyone who wonders why victims, traumatized women who have experienced a horrible violation, do not come forward need look no further than this thread. You posters who are so upset at the thought that this could be your son, don't you think that the parents of accused rapists feel that way too? Do you think that these boys come to Thanksgiving dinner at Grand,a's house with a popped collar and a key cup of roofied Coors? Of course you are sure your sons could never do this, but if you do not also teach your good sons to stand up for people being victimized right in front of them, to not bend to peer pressure to commit crimes and to believe someone who says they were assaulted, this will keep happening.

We have no reason to disbelieve this story other than our hope that it's not true. If the victim had a choice, so did everyone else. The 7 men who raped her chose to rape. Her friends chose to advise her not to report. The school chose a policy that does not encourage victims to pursue justice. You all are choosing to put more faith in a bunch of 20 year old frat boys' hard work to get into college over a young woman's reporting of the worst experience of her life. That's sad.

What are you talking about? Most people here absolutely believe what this girl went through, and are URGING HER TO COME FORWARD and press charges. No one is defending the frat boys who did this to her; we'd all like to see justice served and them thrown into jail, where they belong. But to make blanket statements about "our sons" and "all males" being capable of rape is astounding. Most boys and men would not only never dream of raping, they would also never simply stand by and watch as it was occurring. What's sad is painting every male as a potential rapist/psychopath. I choose to believe that most people in this world are good, including most men. Those who rape and abuse deserve to be punished to the fullest extent possible. But it is madness to assume males, simply by virtue of being male, are going to commit these crimes. I choose to give the good guys credit. And the bad guys will continue to go unpunished as long as victims refuse to come forward immediately.

Research in psychology shows that may people who are placed in the right social situation will do things that they wouldn't otherwise. "Othering" rapists and calling them "psychopaths" is more harmful than helpful. It eliminates organizational responsibility for placing social guidelines and social structures in place to prevent this from happening. Fraternities, like jails and military units and corporations, need clear ethical guidelines and oversight to prevent bad things from happen.

No, they simply need not to exist. Colleges and universities should band together and disband the Greek system in its entirety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

Another website out there is doing the same, if not worse.

Link?

No way will I post that link! I believe the police need to bring up charges before anyone can publish names! Otherwise its libel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's another thought: teach your kids NOT to accept drinks from men. Teach your kids NOT to go to Fraternity parties.

How about focusing on teaching your sons to respect women? These are our sons doing these acts.

Those were not my sons. Blaming all boys/men because of the heinous actions of a few is reprehensible.

Go read Phil Zimbardo's book "The Lucifer Effect" about the Stanford Prison Experiment and then get back to us. Good people (men or women) can do awful things if organization structures aren't in place to prevent them. In big societies, it's a constant risk that has to be guarded against.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't necessarily believe the story, but I don't wonder why victims don't come forward either. I'm inclined to believe most accusations of rape, but I also realize that there are women out there who would lie about such things. I reserve judgement in this case. It just doesn't seem that there is enough evidence presented in this article to come down on a particular side. Why are you so certain that the accusations are valid?

It happened to me. I didn't report. Two fraternity members raped me, with my ex-boyfriend's permission. It was planned. I didn't report it because they said no one would believe it. They were right. Nothing ever changes in American society.

How would you know this if you didn't report it?

There was a gang rape at a fraternity at the school the year before I attended. The victim filed a complaint. She was stalked and hounded and threatened by other fraternity members until she left campus. I was told by my freshman advisor (a Classics professor) that she was "a party girl" who "asked for it" and that it "wasn't really rape."

I walked in on a fraternity member who was trying to sexually assault/maul/get sexually aggressive my drunk roommate after walking her home. He was engaged to another member of our sorority. When I said something about it to her best friend to ask whether I should tell the fiance, I was told that it wasn't believable.

Anyone who made a rape accusation on campus was widely accused of being "nutty or slutty."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, you want victims to come forward? Then create an environment where they feel safe doing that. Vigorously oppose victim blaming, stop grilling women on what they were wearing or were they drinking, don't tolorate intimidation or harassment of victims, and create an environment where men are not only taught not to rape but not to prey on women. Otherwise, what's the point of coming forward, getting your life torn apart again, where there is almost no chance that justice will be done?

Seriously. Anyone who wonders why victims, traumatized women who have experienced a horrible violation, do not come forward need look no further than this thread. You posters who are so upset at the thought that this could be your son, don't you think that the parents of accused rapists feel that way too? Do you think that these boys come to Thanksgiving dinner at Grand,a's house with a popped collar and a key cup of roofied Coors? Of course you are sure your sons could never do this, but if you do not also teach your good sons to stand up for people being victimized right in front of them, to not bend to peer pressure to commit crimes and to believe someone who says they were assaulted, this will keep happening.

We have no reason to disbelieve this story other than our hope that it's not true. If the victim had a choice, so did everyone else. The 7 men who raped her chose to rape. Her friends chose to advise her not to report. The school chose a policy that does not encourage victims to pursue justice. You all are choosing to put more faith in a bunch of 20 year old frat boys' hard work to get into college over a young woman's reporting of the worst experience of her life. That's sad.

What are you talking about? Most people here absolutely believe what this girl went through, and are URGING HER TO COME FORWARD and press charges. No one is defending the frat boys who did this to her; we'd all like to see justice served and them thrown into jail, where they belong. But to make blanket statements about "our sons" and "all males" being capable of rape is astounding. Most boys and men would not only never dream of raping, they would also never simply stand by and watch as it was occurring. What's sad is painting every male as a potential rapist/psychopath. I choose to believe that most people in this world are good, including most men. Those who rape and abuse deserve to be punished to the fullest extent possible. But it is madness to assume males, simply by virtue of being male, are going to commit these crimes. I choose to give the good guys credit. And the bad guys will continue to go unpunished as long as victims refuse to come forward immediately.

Research in psychology shows that may people who are placed in the right social situation will do things that they wouldn't otherwise. "Othering" rapists and calling them "psychopaths" is more harmful than helpful. It eliminates organizational responsibility for placing social guidelines and social structures in place to prevent this from happening. Fraternities, like jails and military units and corporations, need clear ethical guidelines and oversight to prevent bad things from happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

+1
I really can't believe someone has posted names and pictures. What these guys did was heinous, but right now we have no idea who they were. Stop the witchhunt until there are more facts.

Where did she post pictures? Link?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

Another website out there is doing the same, if not worse.

Link?

Anonymous wrote:UVA has suspended all first activities.

It's window dressing. They are only suspended until January 9. They are currently in finals and won't be back until the 9th. It only suspends social activities. They can still hold business meetings and they don't have to move out of their housing. At this point in the semester, there wouldn't be a lot of social activities anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, you want victims to come forward? Then create an environment where they feel safe doing that. Vigorously oppose victim blaming, stop grilling women on what they were wearing or were they drinking, don't tolorate intimidation or harassment of victims, and create an environment where men are not only taught not to rape but not to prey on women. Otherwise, what's the point of coming forward, getting your life torn apart again, where there is almost no chance that justice will be done?

Seriously. Anyone who wonders why victims, traumatized women who have experienced a horrible violation, do not come forward need look no further than this thread. You posters who are so upset at the thought that this could be your son, don't you think that the parents of accused rapists feel that way too? Do you think that these boys come to Thanksgiving dinner at Grand,a's house with a popped collar and a key cup of roofied Coors? Of course you are sure your sons could never do this, but if you do not also teach your good sons to stand up for people being victimized right in front of them, to not bend to peer pressure to commit crimes and to believe someone who says they were assaulted, this will keep happening.

We have no reason to disbelieve this story other than our hope that it's not true. If the victim had a choice, so did everyone else. The 7 men who raped her chose to rape. Her friends chose to advise her not to report. The school chose a policy that does not encourage victims to pursue justice. You all are choosing to put more faith in a bunch of 20 year old frat boys' hard work to get into college over a young woman's reporting of the worst experience of her life. That's sad.

What are you talking about? Most people here absolutely believe what this girl went through, and are URGING HER TO COME FORWARD and press charges. No one is defending the frat boys who did this to her; we'd all like to see justice served and them thrown into jail, where they belong. But to make blanket statements about "our sons" and "all males" being capable of rape is astounding. Most boys and men would not only never dream of raping, they would also never simply stand by and watch as it was occurring. What's sad is painting every male as a potential rapist/psychopath. I choose to believe that most people in this world are good, including most men. Those who rape and abuse deserve to be punished to the fullest extent possible. But it is madness to assume males, simply by virtue of being male, are going to commit these crimes. I choose to give the good guys credit. And the bad guys will continue to go unpunished as long as victims refuse to come forward immediately.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, you want victims to come forward? Then create an environment where they feel safe doing that. Vigorously oppose victim blaming, stop grilling women on what they were wearing or were they drinking, don't tolorate intimidation or harassment of victims, and create an environment where men are not only taught not to rape but not to prey on women. Otherwise, what's the point of coming forward, getting your life torn apart again, where there is almost no chance that justice will be done?

Seriously. Anyone who wonders why victims, traumatized women who have experienced a horrible violation, do not come forward need look no further than this thread. You posters who are so upset at the thought that this could be your son, don't you think that the parents of accused rapists feel that way too? Do you think that these boys come to Thanksgiving dinner at Grand,a's house with a popped collar and a key cup of roofied Coors? Of course you are sure your sons could never do this, but if you do not also teach your good sons to stand up for people being victimized right in front of them, to not bend to peer pressure to commit crimes and to believe someone who says they were assaulted, this will keep happening.

We have no reason to disbelieve this story other than our hope that it's not true. If the victim had a choice, so did everyone else. The 7 men who raped her chose to rape. Her friends chose to advise her not to report. The school chose a policy that does not encourage victims to pursue justice. You all are choosing to put more faith in a bunch of 20 year old frat boys' hard work to get into college over a young woman's reporting of the worst experience of her life. That's sad.

Ok, you want victims to come forward? Then create an environment where they feel safe doing that. Vigorously oppose victim blaming, stop grilling women on what they were wearing or were they drinking, don't tolorate intimidation or harassment of victims, and create an environment where men are not only taught not to rape but not to prey on women. Otherwise, what's the point of coming forward, getting your life torn apart again, where there is almost no chance that justice will be done?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct, pp. But it's really tough to discredit a victim like the UVA girl *had she gone to the hospital and gotten a rape kit, photos, etc.*

EXACTLY. PPs can talk until they're blue in the face about how difficult it is for the victim to come forward and no one is disputing this. But if a prosecution is going to occur, the victims MUST come forward immediately, and have everything documented. With that kind of evidence, there wouldn't be any doubt whatsoever and justice would be served. At some point, victims are going to have to step forward. There's no way around that.

Yes. Which is why every time a victim comes forward, gets an invasive rape kit, all is sinshine and roses. What world do you live in? Do you know how many cases where there is even evidence is justice served? Do you assume if someone is found innocent nothing happened?

You're right. Victims should never, ever report sexual assault because it just won't do any good! Great solution.

Look lady. I'm telling you it isn't a perfect solution. It isn't all or nothing.

No, it's not a perfect solution. But it sure beats doing nothing and regretting it, not to mention letting the same person continue to victimize others. What world do YOU live in?

Anonymous wrote:You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

+1
I really can't believe someone has posted names and pictures. What these guys did was heinous, but right now we have no idea who they were. Stop the witchhunt until there are more facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are correct, pp. But it's really tough to discredit a victim like the UVA girl *had she gone to the hospital and gotten a rape kit, photos, etc.*

EXACTLY. PPs can talk until they're blue in the face about how difficult it is for the victim to come forward and no one is disputing this. But if a prosecution is going to occur, the victims MUST come forward immediately, and have everything documented. With that kind of evidence, there wouldn't be any doubt whatsoever and justice would be served. At some point, victims are going to have to step forward. There's no way around that.

Yes. Which is why every time a victim comes forward, gets an invasive rape kit, all is sinshine and roses. What world do you live in? Do you know how many cases where there is even evidence is justice served? Do you assume if someone is found innocent nothing happened?

You're right. Victims should never, ever report sexual assault because it just won't do any good! Great solution.

Look lady. I'm telling you it isn't a perfect solution. It isn't all or nothing.

UVA has suspended all first activities.