Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 10:00     Subject: Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Anonymous wrote:You guys don't get it (well some do), AAP/GT was initially designed to challenge the brilliant/gifted child who would not do well in a normal class room.

The kid that learns without the studying, but is disruptive in class needs more challenge.


That was before the Asian population explosion starting in the mid 90s. That has been the game changer. Dc's AAP classes have always been majority Asian (western part of the county) but now in middle school, a super majority. Not making judgments mind, just the way it is. Try telling them to stop prepping.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:59     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Yeah, what's scary about the widening gap in education is that those on the high end become too smart, and we need to discourage that.

It's that those at the bottom slipping further and further behind that should worry you. So, everyone would benefit from differentiated teaching -- kids with similar needs being grouped together so that teachers can focus on addressing those needs, not a one size fits all classroom where no one is getting what they need.


Who are those children on the high end becoming too smart?

Are they the gifted and talented children with poor work habits and average grades like my children?

Or they the Peytons and Phelps of the world who prep and work hard for the long run?
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:56     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents


You guys don't get it (well some do), AAP/GT was initially designed to challenge the brilliant/gifted child who would not do well in a normal class room. The kid that learns without the studying, but is disruptive in class needs more challenge.


That defines my chidren, too.


Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:54     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.


Then no need for a "gifted" program or AAP, which was only allowed to serve special needs of the truly gifted.

Putting everyone back in their base schools and letting the teachers decide at which level they should be taught is the best way to handle things anyway.


pretty sure there is. State law and all that.


They have to have a gifted program. It's state law.
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/gifted_ed/gifted_regulations.pdf


I see what you mean. Slightly different language than when my son went through grade school. If you include in gifted all kids performing above grade level, that can be any smart kid whose exposed to advanced material at an early age. What a joke and perpetuation of a winner-take-all society. Will be interesting to see how the widening education gap comes back to haunt us as a society. Maybe these brainy kids put on their special track will be able to come up with a solution. No wait, they won't, because they've been in their little bubble and won't be able to understand their differently educated peers.


Yeah, what's scary about the widening gap in education is that those on the high end become too smart, and we need to discourage that.

It's that those at the bottom slipping further and further behind that should worry you. So, everyone would benefit from differentiated teaching -- kids with similar needs being grouped together so that teachers can focus on addressing those needs, not a one size fits all classroom where no one is getting what they need.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:53     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
You guys don't get it (well some do), AAP/GT was initially designed to challenge the brilliant/gifted child who would not do well in a normal class room.

The kid that learns without the studying, but is disruptive in class needs more challenge.


We get it alright. What makes you think my kids do not fall into that category. They do indeed! My kids learn without studying. How dare you advocate for your lazy bums and not mine.


Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:50     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
NP:

my kids are gifted too
they are bored in school
they have poor work habits except for lacrosse and video games

AArP has lost its way to high performers. My gifted and talented kids deserve AArP. Let's circulate a petition and shut down Fairfax County. The County is going down the tubes. We must refuse to pass the County budget.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:49     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents



Yes, and this explains the steps FCPS and Riverside took to deal with this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."



THIS was the problem -- not that students had prepared, but that they used the exact form and had the exact same questions on the test that they practiced ahead of time. That does go beyond prepping/studying and is more like sneaking a copy of the exam ahead of time.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:46     Subject: Bad News for Test Prep Parents
You guys don't get it (well some do), AAP/GT was initially designed to challenge the brilliant/gifted child who would not do well in a normal class room.

The kid that learns without the studying, but is disruptive in class needs more challenge.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:43     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Counterplay just in from from Peyton: don't try hard if AARP changes the rules...simply fake dementia and Parkinson's disease and you'll win.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:41     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Oh no. Now my truly gifted children (They got that from me) with poor work habits and average grades will be cheated out of the AARP.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:39     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Yes they changed to a different version after Mercer's prep materials were found to be so similar to the CogAt questions. But Riverside sued Mercer for infringement and lost, so now FCPS knows it cannot have a test that is free from being figued out - not even the current version.


Riverside "lost" that case because they could not show school systems that had stopped using their services because of the Mercer materials. The decision did not state that Mercer had not infringed on Riverside's work, only that money damages from loss of customers could not be shown. If a large school system such as FCPS had stopped using these tests because of prepping, that would have placed the case in a different light. FCPS chose to work with the company to create a new version of the test rather than dropping it completely.


Yes, and this explains the steps FCPS and Riverside took to deal with this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."


keyword" "chose." That is their choice. Has nothing to do with whether testing is illegal or improper. It isn't. And now one can prep for the new test just as easily.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:37     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
My kids hate drill and kill. They are bored by school. My gosh, they are obviously gifted. They can excel at a test if you ban all those studious/odious high performers. It's not fair all the cheating going on taking my entitled gifted chair in AARP.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:36     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Anonymous wrote:
Yes they changed to a different version after Mercer's prep materials were found to be so similar to the CogAt questions. But Riverside sued Mercer for infringement and lost, so now FCPS knows it cannot have a test that is free from being figued out - not even the current version.


Riverside "lost" that case because they could not show school systems that had stopped using their services because of the Mercer materials. The decision did not state that Mercer had not infringed on Riverside's work, only that money damages from loss of customers could not be shown. If a large school system such as FCPS had stopped using these tests because of prepping, that would have placed the case in a different light. FCPS chose to work with the company to create a new version of the test rather than dropping it completely.


Yes, and this explains the steps FCPS and Riverside took to deal with this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:35     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Hey, I am gifted too.

I worked up from 2.5 GPA in high school to 3.1 in college. Now, I work continuosly. I deserve the gifted programs Peyton and Phelps will survive at the YMCA.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2013 09:34     Subject: Re:Bad News for Test Prep Parents
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

... at the very least, raise the benchmark needed to get into AAP, so that it is only for the truly "gifted," those who need special accomodations. This current version of AAP has strayed so far from its original intent. The program is really a sham compared to what it was several years ago.


Why has the current version of AAP strayed? At least in part because of parents who have prepped their kids for these tests to get them into this program that they have been led to believe is the only way to get a good education for their kids. If the prepping somehow stopped (and, no, I'm not naive, so I don't actually think that would happen), the program would probably settle back to the approximately 10% level.