I always struggle to find the FCPS page with the schools and the transfer in numbers by school. But, Looking at Herndon HS school profile page tells me that there are 149 kids that transfer into Herndon and 221 that withdraw from Herndon. South Lakes has 90 transfer in and 118 withdraw for this year. A decent number of those withdrawals are to Herndon for AP.

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:109::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:270,0
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:109::::::

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Get rid of IB. People have been screaming this for over 20 years.

There used to be information on the cost difference to FCPS and it was significant. However, I cannot seem to find it now.

Or do what Loudon and Arlington do and make IB opt in. They house the program at specific schools and the kids who are interested in IB apply for the program. In applying, they are agreeing to pursue the IB Diploma. They are provided transportation to the school closest to them that provides IB. Set one IB school for the North, South, East, and West of FCPS and kids can opt into that program. Have a full AP program for all of the other students in the school. Kids who want IB can make the choice to attend an IB school, parents don't have to worry about transportation, everyone else can do AP.

The parents who want a school within a school or really value IB can send their kids to those schools. Everyone else has AP.

Please stop. They are not getting rid of IB. They love IB and faithfully renew the contract with the IBO every year. Getting rid of IB is not on their radar and certainly won’t affect the Skyview boundaries. If anything, moving Fox Mill to Skyview locks them into keeping IB at South Lakes, because South Lakes’ maintaining a reasonable enrollment becomes more dependent on a large number of transfers “for IB” every year from Herndon.

I think what'll be interesting to watch is with SLHS moving back to similar to the old pre-2008 boundaries is the school going to tank again. Pre-2008 there wasn't much of a reputational difference between Herndon and South Lakes, so I don't know how many would use IB to transfer from Herndon to South Lakes now...

Hard to believe but Herndon used to be a tad better than SLHS.

Stu Gibson (then Hunter Mills board member) moved Fox Mill from Oakton to SLHS despite the community opposition. SLHS became a mediocre school (used to be bad).

Town of Herndon went downwhill mainly because of a large inflow of illegals. HHS became bad.

Many HHS kids transfer to SLHS for the IB program. This is only case I know where a large number of students opting for an IB school from an AP school.

Oakton is in the Providence District. Gibson wouldn't have been able to orchestrate the South Lakes boundary changes in 2008 without the support of other School Board members, including Janie Strauss (Dranesville), who got assurances that Langley and Herndon would be left alone, Phil Niedzielski-Eichner (Providence), who got part of Chantilly moved to Oakton in exchange for moving part of Oakton to South Lakes (he was worried Oakton's sports teams would decline without additional bodies), and Kathy Smith (Sully), who went along with the others and got rewarded in other ways.

Yup.

That's the key difference. Meren doesn't seem to have many allies in the board.

Fox Mill was screwed in 2008. Maybe a better luck this time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Westfield parent but I agree that FCPS needs to put some kind of high level academic programming into the building to get kids wanting to attend. Adding academy classes doesn't help the Westfield community b/c those kids just come in for one class.

Also, its refreshing that they aren't out whining like all these other groups had/were/did. Makes me much more sympathetic to how they are getting d!cked over here by FCPS.

I'm a Floris/Westfield parent with one kid attending Westfield next year and the other attending Skyview. After three years there the older one has pretty much given up on getting a quality education so the bar is set pretty low.

All the more reason to put some more academic programming in at Westfield. It sounds like for whatever reason, this school has not gotten sufficient resources or attention from FCPS.

You're smoking crack if you think they are going to reduce the enrollment at Westfield by 25% (2800 to 2100) and give the school more academic resources. It will lose teachers and it will have to fight to retain some of its current electives. There's a fixed pot of money and now some of that money will be going to Skyview instead, and that could be an expensive start-up given the types of electives they want to offer there.

The complaints around Westfield seem to relate to the commutes (being addressed), the demographics (although WHS mirrors the HS demographics in FCPS now fairly closely) and the senior leadership. They should revisit the demographic impact of the boundary changes they are now considering, and they can and should make sure it has a better administrative team than it's had for past decade or so.

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why so many in crossfield are so laser focused on staying Oakton? I would MUCH prefer my teen having a close option like Skyview rather than the outrageously long commute to Oakton.

They paid oakton price to buy the house in oakton hs. They did not mind the commute to oakton when they bought the house and still do not mind that. For the people who were willing to pay the extra to buy in oakton hs, going to a better school out weighs 10+ minutes of extra commute time. As simple as that.

I actually do not understand why people who hates commute to oakton so much would buy in crossfield in the first place.

This right here is the answer. We bought houses in the Oakton district and absolutely knew the distance from our neighborhoods to the high school.

While I strongly prefer Oakton HS, my biggest concern is that scenario 1 is absolutely bananas in the way the board is proposing to split just a few Crossfield neighborhoods and send that handful of kids to Carson/Skyview. So my kids will have spent 7+ years with their peers at Crossfield, most of their class would move onto Franklin/Oakton, and then they would start MS knowing maybe 5 kids at a school of 1,400 (Carson). The math isn't mathing, and there is a plethora of research that shows what a terrible idea this is from a mental health standpoint.

There's nothing compelling about this. Everyone knows where their zoned high school is when they purchase a house and they also know that can be changed at any time. It makes NO sense to send Herndon kids all the way to Vienna to Oakton when there are going to be 800 empty seats at Westfield and 400 empty seats at South Lakes.

I find students' mental health pretty compelling, but to each their own.

Rezoning your house from Oakton to a close by high school has nothing to do with your HS kids mental health, since they will be grandfathered into Oakton.
More sleep will be great for future kids' mental health though.

Many of us don't have high schoolers who will be grandfathered anywhere, which is why we're concerned. My kids are in elementary and middle school.

Then they will go to whatever middle and high school they go to with the rest of your neighbors.

No they won't, that's the point. Scenario 1 breaks up Crossfield neighborhoods. Four districts will have buses going down the same street. Crossfield shouldn't be a 3/4-way split feeder (Carson, Franklin, Hughes) (Skyview, Oakton, South Lakes, Chantilly). Not to mention, a lot of these kids that are 6th graders now, will have to go to Carson for 1 year and then switch to another new school (Franklin) with a whole other group of new kids. They won't have the 2 years in MS to make friends going into HS.

Yes, this is exactly right. Scenario 1 turns Crossfield into a giant split feeder and has kids switching middle schools. It's not good. There's just no continuity here.

they aren’t splitting up middle schools. if a kid starts in a Ms they can stay there. will just have to provide transportation

Telling someone they can stay at the MS they started at if their parents provide transportation is honestly incredibly unrealistic. Sure, it sounds nice, but tell me how many dual-income households have the bandwidth for someone to drive a kid to and from school every single day?

You find the closest bus route and ask for permission for the kids to ride that bus to the MS. Skyview Admin was telling parents who were worried about transportation for next year how to work this process. Fox Mill families were planning to identify the Floris bus stops and use those if Fox Mill was not moved. It would have been a short walk for about half of the families and a 2 minute drive for the other half.

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why so many in crossfield are so laser focused on staying Oakton? I would MUCH prefer my teen having a close option like Skyview rather than the outrageously long commute to Oakton.

They paid oakton price to buy the house in oakton hs. They did not mind the commute to oakton when they bought the house and still do not mind that. For the people who were willing to pay the extra to buy in oakton hs, going to a better school out weighs 10+ minutes of extra commute time. As simple as that.

I actually do not understand why people who hates commute to oakton so much would buy in crossfield in the first place.

This right here is the answer. We bought houses in the Oakton district and absolutely knew the distance from our neighborhoods to the high school.

While I strongly prefer Oakton HS, my biggest concern is that scenario 1 is absolutely bananas in the way the board is proposing to split just a few Crossfield neighborhoods and send that handful of kids to Carson/Skyview. So my kids will have spent 7+ years with their peers at Crossfield, most of their class would move onto Franklin/Oakton, and then they would start MS knowing maybe 5 kids at a school of 1,400 (Carson). The math isn't mathing, and there is a plethora of research that shows what a terrible idea this is from a mental health standpoint.

There's nothing compelling about this. Everyone knows where their zoned high school is when they purchase a house and they also know that can be changed at any time. It makes NO sense to send Herndon kids all the way to Vienna to Oakton when there are going to be 800 empty seats at Westfield and 400 empty seats at South Lakes.

I find students' mental health pretty compelling, but to each their own.

Rezoning your house from Oakton to a close by high school has nothing to do with your HS kids mental health, since they will be grandfathered into Oakton.
More sleep will be great for future kids' mental health though.

Many of us don't have high schoolers who will be grandfathered anywhere, which is why we're concerned. My kids are in elementary and middle school.

Then they will go to whatever middle and high school they go to with the rest of your neighbors.

No they won't, that's the point. Scenario 1 breaks up Crossfield neighborhoods. Four districts will have buses going down the same street. Crossfield shouldn't be a 3/4-way split feeder (Carson, Franklin, Hughes) (Skyview, Oakton, South Lakes, Chantilly). Not to mention, a lot of these kids that are 6th graders now, will have to go to Carson for 1 year and then switch to another new school (Franklin) with a whole other group of new kids. They won't have the 2 years in MS to make friends going into HS.

Yes, this is exactly right. Scenario 1 turns Crossfield into a giant split feeder and has kids switching middle schools. It's not good. There's just no continuity here.

they aren’t splitting up middle schools. if a kid starts in a Ms they can stay there. will just have to provide transportation

Telling someone they can stay at the MS they started at if their parents provide transportation is honestly incredibly unrealistic. Sure, it sounds nice, but tell me how many dual-income households have the bandwidth for someone to drive a kid to and from school every single day?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of IB. People have been screaming this for over 20 years.

There used to be information on the cost difference to FCPS and it was significant. However, I cannot seem to find it now.

Or do what Loudon and Arlington do and make IB opt in. They house the program at specific schools and the kids who are interested in IB apply for the program. In applying, they are agreeing to pursue the IB Diploma. They are provided transportation to the school closest to them that provides IB. Set one IB school for the North, South, East, and West of FCPS and kids can opt into that program. Have a full AP program for all of the other students in the school. Kids who want IB can make the choice to attend an IB school, parents don't have to worry about transportation, everyone else can do AP.

The parents who want a school within a school or really value IB can send their kids to those schools. Everyone else has AP.

Please stop. They are not getting rid of IB. They love IB and faithfully renew the contract with the IBO every year. Getting rid of IB is not on their radar and certainly won’t affect the Skyview boundaries. If anything, moving Fox Mill to Skyview locks them into keeping IB at South Lakes, because South Lakes’ maintaining a reasonable enrollment becomes more dependent on a large number of transfers “for IB” every year from Herndon.

I think what'll be interesting to watch is with SLHS moving back to similar to the old pre-2008 boundaries is the school going to tank again. Pre-2008 there wasn't much of a reputational difference between Herndon and South Lakes, so I don't know how many would use IB to transfer from Herndon to South Lakes now...

Hard to believe but Herndon used to be a tad better than SLHS.

Stu Gibson (then Hunter Mills board member) moved Fox Mill from Oakton to SLHS despite the community opposition. SLHS became a mediocre school (used to be bad).

Town of Herndon went downwhill mainly because of a large inflow of illegals. HHS became bad.

Many HHS kids transfer to SLHS for the IB program. This is only case I know where a large number of students opting for an IB school from an AP school.

Oakton is in the Providence District. Gibson wouldn't have been able to orchestrate the South Lakes boundary changes in 2008 without the support of other School Board members, including Janie Strauss (Dranesville), who got assurances that Langley and Herndon would be left alone, Phil Niedzielski-Eichner (Providence), who got part of Chantilly moved to Oakton in exchange for moving part of Oakton to South Lakes (he was worried Oakton's sports teams would decline without additional bodies), and Kathy Smith (Sully), who went along with the others and got rewarded in other ways.

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Anonymous wrote:No dog in this fight, but going down to just 2,000 seems way better than being over 2,700.

Seems like some Westfield posters are trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

There are several issues at play--the SES makeup of the 2000 who will be attending, the impact of losing so many staff and students, and the fiscal common sense of leaving 800 open seats at a school.

2000 students works for Langley b/c of the makeup of its student body.

The SB and FCPS seem to be deliberately setting Westfield up for failure to protect other areas.

Agreed entirely, but it seems consultants have been told to just use butts rather than consider SES of the butts when they play around moving kids. Had they included SES, there's simply no way they'd ever pull Fox Mill from SLHS while leaving Crossfield at Oakton or not move Walney Oaks, etc. as part of the backfill to Westfield.

Except that FMES students are also helping balance out Skyview’s FARMS with Coates and McNair, and with Skyview being so close and having AP, the pupil placing would be astronomical. Might as well just put them there.

Crossfield's students would do just fine as a replacement for FMES. That way they'd not be endangering SLHS and it's not like Oakton would miss the poors from Crossfield.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of IB. People have been screaming this for over 20 years.

There used to be information on the cost difference to FCPS and it was significant. However, I cannot seem to find it now.

Or do what Loudon and Arlington do and make IB opt in. They house the program at specific schools and the kids who are interested in IB apply for the program. In applying, they are agreeing to pursue the IB Diploma. They are provided transportation to the school closest to them that provides IB. Set one IB school for the North, South, East, and West of FCPS and kids can opt into that program. Have a full AP program for all of the other students in the school. Kids who want IB can make the choice to attend an IB school, parents don't have to worry about transportation, everyone else can do AP.

The parents who want a school within a school or really value IB can send their kids to those schools. Everyone else has AP.

Please stop. They are not getting rid of IB. They love IB and faithfully renew the contract with the IBO every year. Getting rid of IB is not on their radar and certainly won’t affect the Skyview boundaries. If anything, moving Fox Mill to Skyview locks them into keeping IB at South Lakes, because South Lakes’ maintaining a reasonable enrollment becomes more dependent on a large number of transfers “for IB” every year from Herndon.

I think what'll be interesting to watch is with SLHS moving back to similar to the old pre-2008 boundaries is the school going to tank again. Pre-2008 there wasn't much of a reputational difference between Herndon and South Lakes, so I don't know how many would use IB to transfer from Herndon to South Lakes now...

Hard to believe but Herndon used to be a tad better than SLHS.

Stu Gibson (then Hunter Mills board member) moved Fox Mill from Oakton to SLHS despite the community opposition. SLHS became a mediocre school (used to be bad).

Town of Herndon went downwhill mainly because of a large inflow of illegals. HHS became bad.

Many HHS kids transfer to SLHS for the IB program. This is only case I know where a large number of students opting for an IB school from an AP school.

The Astronauts having insisted that they stay at Herndon for its "perfect demographics"...

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why so many in crossfield are so laser focused on staying Oakton? I would MUCH prefer my teen having a close option like Skyview rather than the outrageously long commute to Oakton.

They paid oakton price to buy the house in oakton hs. They did not mind the commute to oakton when they bought the house and still do not mind that. For the people who were willing to pay the extra to buy in oakton hs, going to a better school out weighs 10+ minutes of extra commute time. As simple as that.

I actually do not understand why people who hates commute to oakton so much would buy in crossfield in the first place.

This right here is the answer. We bought houses in the Oakton district and absolutely knew the distance from our neighborhoods to the high school.

While I strongly prefer Oakton HS, my biggest concern is that scenario 1 is absolutely bananas in the way the board is proposing to split just a few Crossfield neighborhoods and send that handful of kids to Carson/Skyview. So my kids will have spent 7+ years with their peers at Crossfield, most of their class would move onto Franklin/Oakton, and then they would start MS knowing maybe 5 kids at a school of 1,400 (Carson). The math isn't mathing, and there is a plethora of research that shows what a terrible idea this is from a mental health standpoint.

There's nothing compelling about this. Everyone knows where their zoned high school is when they purchase a house and they also know that can be changed at any time. It makes NO sense to send Herndon kids all the way to Vienna to Oakton when there are going to be 800 empty seats at Westfield and 400 empty seats at South Lakes.

I find students' mental health pretty compelling, but to each their own.

Rezoning your house from Oakton to a close by high school has nothing to do with your HS kids mental health, since they will be grandfathered into Oakton.
More sleep will be great for future kids' mental health though.

Many of us don't have high schoolers who will be grandfathered anywhere, which is why we're concerned. My kids are in elementary and middle school.

Then they will go to whatever middle and high school they go to with the rest of your neighbors.

No they won't, that's the point. Scenario 1 breaks up Crossfield neighborhoods. Four districts will have buses going down the same street. Crossfield shouldn't be a 3/4-way split feeder (Carson, Franklin, Hughes) (Skyview, Oakton, South Lakes, Chantilly). Not to mention, a lot of these kids that are 6th graders now, will have to go to Carson for 1 year and then switch to another new school (Franklin) with a whole other group of new kids. They won't have the 2 years in MS to make friends going into HS.

Yes, this is exactly right. Scenario 1 turns Crossfield into a giant split feeder and has kids switching middle schools. It's not good. There's just no continuity here.

they aren’t splitting up middle schools. if a kid starts in a Ms they can stay there. will just have to provide transportation

I didn't go to the meeting.

Just curious, what were the main complaints?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of IB. People have been screaming this for over 20 years.

There used to be information on the cost difference to FCPS and it was significant. However, I cannot seem to find it now.

Or do what Loudon and Arlington do and make IB opt in. They house the program at specific schools and the kids who are interested in IB apply for the program. In applying, they are agreeing to pursue the IB Diploma. They are provided transportation to the school closest to them that provides IB. Set one IB school for the North, South, East, and West of FCPS and kids can opt into that program. Have a full AP program for all of the other students in the school. Kids who want IB can make the choice to attend an IB school, parents don't have to worry about transportation, everyone else can do AP.

The parents who want a school within a school or really value IB can send their kids to those schools. Everyone else has AP.

Please stop. They are not getting rid of IB. They love IB and faithfully renew the contract with the IBO every year. Getting rid of IB is not on their radar and certainly won’t affect the Skyview boundaries. If anything, moving Fox Mill to Skyview locks them into keeping IB at South Lakes, because South Lakes’ maintaining a reasonable enrollment becomes more dependent on a large number of transfers “for IB” every year from Herndon.

I think what'll be interesting to watch is with SLHS moving back to similar to the old pre-2008 boundaries is the school going to tank again. Pre-2008 there wasn't much of a reputational difference between Herndon and South Lakes, so I don't know how many would use IB to transfer from Herndon to South Lakes now...

Honestly, if they didn't send FMES to Skyview you would have seen an increase in the number of kids pupil placing for AP. Skyview is closer then Herndon and we all knew that there are busses leaving from the Floris neighborhood, which parents can apply to have a pupil place kid ride. SLHS loses about 250 kids to TJ and AP placement, mainly to Herndon. Change the AP school from Herndon to Skyview and that number goes up.

The number of students pupil placing from SLHS to Herndon is going to drop. The number going to Skyview will probably be high, even with losing FMES and Floris because those were not the only ones interested in Skyview. I know that there are some Hughes students who opted in to Skyview.

Herndon only has 13 transfers into the school this year, and fewer than 10 are from South Lakes.

South Lakes sent more kids to TJ (31), Langley (28), Madison (11), and Oakton (11) this year than to Herndon.

People will continue to pupil place their kids out of Herndon to South Lakes and some will no doubt opt for Skyview as well if that's an option. Maybe that would change if South Lakes starts to become less desirable or Herndon MS stops sending AAP kids to Hughes MS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Westfield parent but I agree that FCPS needs to put some kind of high level academic programming into the building to get kids wanting to attend. Adding academy classes doesn't help the Westfield community b/c those kids just come in for one class.

Also, its refreshing that they aren't out whining like all these other groups had/were/did. Makes me much more sympathetic to how they are getting d!cked over here by FCPS.

I'm a Floris/Westfield parent with one kid attending Westfield next year and the other attending Skyview. After three years there the older one has pretty much given up on getting a quality education so the bar is set pretty low.

All the more reason to put some more academic programming in at Westfield. It sounds like for whatever reason, this school has not gotten sufficient resources or attention from FCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of IB. People have been screaming this for over 20 years.

There used to be information on the cost difference to FCPS and it was significant. However, I cannot seem to find it now.

Or do what Loudon and Arlington do and make IB opt in. They house the program at specific schools and the kids who are interested in IB apply for the program. In applying, they are agreeing to pursue the IB Diploma. They are provided transportation to the school closest to them that provides IB. Set one IB school for the North, South, East, and West of FCPS and kids can opt into that program. Have a full AP program for all of the other students in the school. Kids who want IB can make the choice to attend an IB school, parents don't have to worry about transportation, everyone else can do AP.

The parents who want a school within a school or really value IB can send their kids to those schools. Everyone else has AP.

Please stop. They are not getting rid of IB. They love IB and faithfully renew the contract with the IBO every year. Getting rid of IB is not on their radar and certainly won’t affect the Skyview boundaries. If anything, moving Fox Mill to Skyview locks them into keeping IB at South Lakes, because South Lakes’ maintaining a reasonable enrollment becomes more dependent on a large number of transfers “for IB” every year from Herndon.

I think what'll be interesting to watch is with SLHS moving back to similar to the old pre-2008 boundaries is the school going to tank again. Pre-2008 there wasn't much of a reputational difference between Herndon and South Lakes, so I don't know how many would use IB to transfer from Herndon to South Lakes now...

Hard to believe but Herndon used to be a tad better than SLHS.

Stu Gibson (then Hunter Mills board member) moved Fox Mill from Oakton to SLHS despite the community opposition. SLHS became a mediocre school (used to be bad).

Town of Herndon went downwhill mainly because of a large inflow of illegals. HHS became bad.

Many HHS kids transfer to SLHS for the IB program. This is only case I know where a large number of students opting for an IB school from an AP school.

Maybe these downtrodden areas will improve now that the illegal immigration spigot has been turned off. Neighborhoods that used to be no-go for young families needing affordable housing might become OK.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No dog in this fight, but going down to just 2,000 seems way better than being over 2,700.

Seems like some Westfield posters are trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

There are several issues at play--the SES makeup of the 2000 who will be attending, the impact of losing so many staff and students, and the fiscal common sense of leaving 800 open seats at a school.

2000 students works for Langley b/c of the makeup of its student body.

The SB and FCPS seem to be deliberately setting Westfield up for failure to protect other areas.

Agreed entirely, but it seems consultants have been told to just use butts rather than consider SES of the butts when they play around moving kids. Had they included SES, there's simply no way they'd ever pull Fox Mill from SLHS while leaving Crossfield at Oakton or not move Walney Oaks, etc. as part of the backfill to Westfield.

Except that FMES students are also helping balance out Skyview’s FARMS with Coates and McNair, and with Skyview being so close and having AP, the pupil placing would be astronomical. Might as well just put them there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLHS is losing a lot of kids, though not as many as Westfield.

They are losing 300-400. going from 99% full to 83% full.
Westfield is losing @700-800 and going down to 74%.

But South Lakes could still end up with a smaller enrollment than Westfield.

SLHS will be fine. Reston is flagged as a future development area.