Anonymous
04/15/2026 10:03
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Much easier for the anti socials to just fondle their iPhone at dinners and never speak, even to their children.
Anonymous
04/15/2026 08:45
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Even Miss Manners acknowledges that the point of family dinner wasn’t to harp on table manners it was:
“In reality, instruction in table manners was incidental to the main lesson, which was how to exchange ideas, frame a polite argument and, if necessary, pretend to be interested in what others had done that day. In other words, to learn to socialize.
But Miss Manners supposes that you must know what has happened: the loss of nightly family dinner. That was where all this was taught, in a more or less pleasant atmosphere.”
OP seems to be failing to promote a pleasant atmosphere by focusing on the wrong things. So much for adhering to Miss Manner’s advice.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2026/03/31
“In reality, instruction in table manners was incidental to the main lesson, which was how to exchange ideas, frame a polite argument and, if necessary, pretend to be interested in what others had done that day. In other words, to learn to socialize.
But Miss Manners supposes that you must know what has happened: the loss of nightly family dinner. That was where all this was taught, in a more or less pleasant atmosphere.”
OP seems to be failing to promote a pleasant atmosphere by focusing on the wrong things. So much for adhering to Miss Manner’s advice.
https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2026/03/31
Anonymous
04/15/2026 07:54
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Isn't Miss Manners is generally accepted as the current manners and etiquette authority in the US? Although she's sometimes a bit snarky, she emphasizes kindness and civility as a response to rudeness. It's not necessarily always easy advice to follow, but does tend to make life more pleasant overall in my experience.
No. She was born in 1938. She isn't in touch at all with anything current.
It is possible to be in touch or out of touch regardless of one's age.
Miss Manners made this very point in a column about a politician who claimed he had no idea that it was not OK to call adult human females persons "girls."
Anonymous
04/14/2026 20:54
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Isn't Miss Manners is generally accepted as the current manners and etiquette authority in the US? Although she's sometimes a bit snarky, she emphasizes kindness and civility as a response to rudeness. It's not necessarily always easy advice to follow, but does tend to make life more pleasant overall in my experience.
No. She was born in 1938. She isn't in touch at all with anything current.
Anonymous
04/14/2026 20:44
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[google]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, I actually have the same problem. After 26 years, DH still puts the napkin on the right with the knife and spoon on it and it drives me crazy. But I just change it and don’t make a federal case out of it.
Why is that a problem?
Because Princess is putting on airs acting like Tuesday supper is a State Dinner.
The rules of etiquette are the same everywhere. There is not one set of rules for Tuesday supper and a completely different one for a State Dinner.
I think this is comforting for kids. It can bring a sense of normalcy even in extreme situations. Ma Ingalls made sure that the girls set the table correctly out on the frontier. So did the Girl Guide leaders at the Weixian Internment Camp during WWII.
Establishing routines and patterns that can be followed in any situation makes difficult things psychologically easier to handle.
Who decided the rules of etiquette and under what authority?
Are you the same poster who insisted that it was ridiculous for kids to need a red sweater for the school chorus trip? You are a nightmare.
No.
Now answer the question, please.
Like you want a history lesson? Are you asking about when various ancient civilizations started using various rituals and customs in day to day life? Or are you asking about dinnerware specifically?
What do you mean “who decided the rules of etiquette?”
I literally mean who decided the rules of etiquette, and under what authority?
Some of you seem to be under the impression that these completely *arbitrary* rules are equivalent to scripture, and fail to comprehend that we’re not all members of your religion…
lol…okay.
You are welcome to try to change them. Sneak into wedding venues and restaurants and throw the knives around. Be a flatware anarchist!!!
So… zero clue, zero curiosity. What a good sheep.
I mean, being a sheep is kind of the point. These are the rules.
It’s kind of like soccer. The rules might be arbitrary, but there are rules. They do exist. You and your family might not care about them when you are kicking the ball around in the backyard, or you might have your own “Johnson Family” soccer rules, and that’s fine. But if you are going to play with a group of people who don’t know each other well, everyone is generally going to play by the conventional rules, so it behooves you to learn them. And if your spouse grew up in a family that really cared about soccer and you never really played, they are going to expect you to learn the real rules of the game.
The history of the rules doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter who made them or who wrote them down. It also doesn’t matter if you “subscribe” to them. They exist outside of you.
You might not want to be a sheep and play in your own special way, but that doesn’t make you a free thinker. It makes you clueless at best and kind of a jerk at worst.
It very much matters who makes “the rules” and whether individuals or societies choose to subscribe to them. (Did you know that “the rules” of traffic aren’t the same in different countries, for example? I know, mind blown!)
The rules of soccer are covered by FIFA, which is recognized throughout the entire world as soccer’s governing body.
What is the governing body of the “rules” of etiquette? (This brings us back to the question of authority, dear. You seem too simple-minded to make this connection on your own.)
This is so weird. The rules for professional soccer are governed by FIFA, but your adult rec team isn’t governed by anything other than social convention. Even so, when you are in a group of people who don’t know each other well, everyone plays by the same rules. Otherwise, the game isn’t as fun.
I really don’t get what you don’t get about this.
Is the table setting just a crutch so you can tell right from left?
Anonymous
04/14/2026 20:23
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Of course he can. He just doesn't want to. Find a chore that he's willing to do to your standards and resign yourself to being the person who sets the table.
+1. Weaponized incompetence. I married a guy who could manage the housing logistics supply for an entire country at war in his day job, but couldn't set the table, cook and turned all the whites pink. I got tired of that and other forms of disrespect and ended the relationship. Kids lived with me 100% of the time, because he couldn't manage custody - grocery shopping and making meals for the kids was something they had to nag him to do when they were in elementary and that they eventually ended up doing for him until they got old enough to realize his scam themselves. The men who want to find servants can always find someone to play the role.
Anonymous
04/14/2026 20:19
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Isn't Miss Manners is generally accepted as the current manners and etiquette authority in the US? Although she's sometimes a bit snarky, she emphasizes kindness and civility as a response to rudeness. It's not necessarily always easy advice to follow, but does tend to make life more pleasant overall in my experience.
Anonymous
04/14/2026 19:51
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anyoen who has the time and mental energy to care about setting the table in some way that reflects a traditional formal etiquette is bored. They definitely need to work more or to find meaningful things that add to their mental load so they aren't spending time on frivolous stupidity. Sounds like a bored housewife and too much time at the country club.
Anonymous
04/14/2026 19:24
Subject: Re:Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:What happens when OPs kids eat at the in-laws? Are OPs kids allowed to eat over the sink, or on the couch, as is customary with the family she married into?
Does OP need to be there to teach them all table manners?
Well we know the paternal grandparents don’t give two F’s about manners or messes…
Anonymous
04/14/2026 19:22
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, I feel like I have a husband who is equally involved in household stuff and childcare. But we definitely both have stuff we care about more than the other one. I told him before we got married that I would never learn to put my shoes away — he does it for me. He isn’t organized with paperwork so I do all of that. He does all the laundry and puts his clothes away in a very particular way. If I suddenly had to do all the laundry, I would not notice which type hanger a particular kind of shirt went on. He cannot remember where my kid’s dance class is on Tuesday night even after months. He will go to the place she gets picked up on Mondays and Wednesdays if I don’t remind him. He’s obsessed with blowing any leaves out of the garage when we have people coming over (that will never set foot in the garage). Whatever. It all evens out in the end. But I’m not blowing the leaves out the garage because people are coming over — ever.
I'm the same. Happily married to a man with whom I agree on the important things and we both agree to let go of the little things. If he wants to spend time optimizing the wifi signal, have at it. If I want to spend time organizing the pantry cupboards, I'm free to do so. But neither of us expects the other to care.
Putting healthy food on the table for our family? That's a priority. How the silverware and napkins end up on the table? Not a priority.
9:39 PP here
I also think this is a perfectly acceptable outlook - there are things one spouse doesn't care about, and the other spouse is good with that - as long as it goes both ways.
OP's H doesn't care about table settings, fine. But then he shouldn't give OP grief about not caring if they have the right type of snacks or beer at home, or if the screwdriver gets put back in the garage rather than the junk drawer (random examples that are stereotypical dude-like)
People in normal healthy marriages already know this, and live this way, which is why they can't understand OPs insistence that he must care about the table setting. The unhappily married people are the ones doling out the bad advice that he better care as much or more than OP about something she never bothered to find out about prior to marriage in order to pass this test to prove his love decades later. Ridiculous.
THIS
Anonymous
04/14/2026 19:15
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[google]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, I actually have the same problem. After 26 years, DH still puts the napkin on the right with the knife and spoon on it and it drives me crazy. But I just change it and don’t make a federal case out of it.
Why is that a problem?
Because Princess is putting on airs acting like Tuesday supper is a State Dinner.
The rules of etiquette are the same everywhere. There is not one set of rules for Tuesday supper and a completely different one for a State Dinner.
I think this is comforting for kids. It can bring a sense of normalcy even in extreme situations. Ma Ingalls made sure that the girls set the table correctly out on the frontier. So did the Girl Guide leaders at the Weixian Internment Camp during WWII.
Establishing routines and patterns that can be followed in any situation makes difficult things psychologically easier to handle.
Who decided the rules of etiquette and under what authority?
Are you the same poster who insisted that it was ridiculous for kids to need a red sweater for the school chorus trip? You are a nightmare.
No.
Now answer the question, please.
Like you want a history lesson? Are you asking about when various ancient civilizations started using various rituals and customs in day to day life? Or are you asking about dinnerware specifically?
What do you mean “who decided the rules of etiquette?”
I literally mean who decided the rules of etiquette, and under what authority?
Some of you seem to be under the impression that these completely *arbitrary* rules are equivalent to scripture, and fail to comprehend that we’re not all members of your religion…
lol…okay.
You are welcome to try to change them. Sneak into wedding venues and restaurants and throw the knives around. Be a flatware anarchist!!!
So… zero clue, zero curiosity. What a good sheep.
I mean, being a sheep is kind of the point. These are the rules.
It’s kind of like soccer. The rules might be arbitrary, but there are rules. They do exist. You and your family might not care about them when you are kicking the ball around in the backyard, or you might have your own “Johnson Family” soccer rules, and that’s fine. But if you are going to play with a group of people who don’t know each other well, everyone is generally going to play by the conventional rules, so it behooves you to learn them. And if your spouse grew up in a family that really cared about soccer and you never really played, they are going to expect you to learn the real rules of the game.
The history of the rules doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter who made them or who wrote them down. It also doesn’t matter if you “subscribe” to them. They exist outside of you.
You might not want to be a sheep and play in your own special way, but that doesn’t make you a free thinker. It makes you clueless at best and kind of a jerk at worst.
It very much matters who makes “the rules” and whether individuals or societies choose to subscribe to them. (Did you know that “the rules” of traffic aren’t the same in different countries, for example? I know, mind blown!)
The rules of soccer are covered by FIFA, which is recognized throughout the entire world as soccer’s governing body.
What is the governing body of the “rules” of etiquette? (This brings us back to the question of authority, dear. You seem too simple-minded to make this connection on your own.)
This is so weird. The rules for professional soccer are governed by FIFA, but your adult rec team isn’t governed by anything other than social convention. Even so, when you are in a group of people who don’t know each other well, everyone plays by the same rules. Otherwise, the game isn’t as fun.
I really don’t get what you don’t get about this.
Anonymous
04/14/2026 18:44
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[google]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, I actually have the same problem. After 26 years, DH still puts the napkin on the right with the knife and spoon on it and it drives me crazy. But I just change it and don’t make a federal case out of it.
Why is that a problem?
Because Princess is putting on airs acting like Tuesday supper is a State Dinner.
The rules of etiquette are the same everywhere. There is not one set of rules for Tuesday supper and a completely different one for a State Dinner.
I think this is comforting for kids. It can bring a sense of normalcy even in extreme situations. Ma Ingalls made sure that the girls set the table correctly out on the frontier. So did the Girl Guide leaders at the Weixian Internment Camp during WWII.
Establishing routines and patterns that can be followed in any situation makes difficult things psychologically easier to handle.
Who decided the rules of etiquette and under what authority?
Are you the same poster who insisted that it was ridiculous for kids to need a red sweater for the school chorus trip? You are a nightmare.
No.
Now answer the question, please.
Like you want a history lesson? Are you asking about when various ancient civilizations started using various rituals and customs in day to day life? Or are you asking about dinnerware specifically?
What do you mean “who decided the rules of etiquette?”
I literally mean who decided the rules of etiquette, and under what authority?
Some of you seem to be under the impression that these completely *arbitrary* rules are equivalent to scripture, and fail to comprehend that we’re not all members of your religion…
lol…okay.
You are welcome to try to change them. Sneak into wedding venues and restaurants and throw the knives around. Be a flatware anarchist!!!
So… zero clue, zero curiosity. What a good sheep.
I mean, being a sheep is kind of the point. These are the rules.
It’s kind of like soccer. The rules might be arbitrary, but there are rules. They do exist. You and your family might not care about them when you are kicking the ball around in the backyard, or you might have your own “Johnson Family” soccer rules, and that’s fine. But if you are going to play with a group of people who don’t know each other well, everyone is generally going to play by the conventional rules, so it behooves you to learn them. And if your spouse grew up in a family that really cared about soccer and you never really played, they are going to expect you to learn the real rules of the game.
The history of the rules doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter who made them or who wrote them down. It also doesn’t matter if you “subscribe” to them. They exist outside of you.
You might not want to be a sheep and play in your own special way, but that doesn’t make you a free thinker. It makes you clueless at best and kind of a jerk at worst.
It very much matters who makes “the rules” and whether individuals or societies choose to subscribe to them. (Did you know that “the rules” of traffic aren’t the same in different countries, for example? I know, mind blown!)
The rules of soccer are covered by FIFA, which is recognized throughout the entire world as soccer’s governing body.
What is the governing body of the “rules” of etiquette? (This brings us back to the question of authority, dear. You seem too simple-minded to make this connection on your own.)
Anonymous
04/14/2026 18:03
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[google]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, I actually have the same problem. After 26 years, DH still puts the napkin on the right with the knife and spoon on it and it drives me crazy. But I just change it and don’t make a federal case out of it.
Why is that a problem?
Because Princess is putting on airs acting like Tuesday supper is a State Dinner.
The rules of etiquette are the same everywhere. There is not one set of rules for Tuesday supper and a completely different one for a State Dinner.
I think this is comforting for kids. It can bring a sense of normalcy even in extreme situations. Ma Ingalls made sure that the girls set the table correctly out on the frontier. So did the Girl Guide leaders at the Weixian Internment Camp during WWII.
Establishing routines and patterns that can be followed in any situation makes difficult things psychologically easier to handle.
Who decided the rules of etiquette and under what authority?
Are you the same poster who insisted that it was ridiculous for kids to need a red sweater for the school chorus trip? You are a nightmare.
No.
Now answer the question, please.
Like you want a history lesson? Are you asking about when various ancient civilizations started using various rituals and customs in day to day life? Or are you asking about dinnerware specifically?
What do you mean “who decided the rules of etiquette?”
I literally mean who decided the rules of etiquette, and under what authority?
Some of you seem to be under the impression that these completely *arbitrary* rules are equivalent to scripture, and fail to comprehend that we’re not all members of your religion…
lol…okay.
You are welcome to try to change them. Sneak into wedding venues and restaurants and throw the knives around. Be a flatware anarchist!!!
I want a shirt that says this
Anonymous
04/14/2026 17:55
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[google]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, I actually have the same problem. After 26 years, DH still puts the napkin on the right with the knife and spoon on it and it drives me crazy. But I just change it and don’t make a federal case out of it.
Why is that a problem?
Because Princess is putting on airs acting like Tuesday supper is a State Dinner.
The rules of etiquette are the same everywhere. There is not one set of rules for Tuesday supper and a completely different one for a State Dinner.
I think this is comforting for kids. It can bring a sense of normalcy even in extreme situations. Ma Ingalls made sure that the girls set the table correctly out on the frontier. So did the Girl Guide leaders at the Weixian Internment Camp during WWII.
Establishing routines and patterns that can be followed in any situation makes difficult things psychologically easier to handle.
Who decided the rules of etiquette and under what authority?
Are you the same poster who insisted that it was ridiculous for kids to need a red sweater for the school chorus trip? You are a nightmare.
No.
Now answer the question, please.
Like you want a history lesson? Are you asking about when various ancient civilizations started using various rituals and customs in day to day life? Or are you asking about dinnerware specifically?
What do you mean “who decided the rules of etiquette?”
I literally mean who decided the rules of etiquette, and under what authority?
Some of you seem to be under the impression that these completely *arbitrary* rules are equivalent to scripture, and fail to comprehend that we’re not all members of your religion…
lol…okay.
You are welcome to try to change them. Sneak into wedding venues and restaurants and throw the knives around. Be a flatware anarchist!!!
So… zero clue, zero curiosity. What a good sheep.
I mean, being a sheep is kind of the point. These are the rules.
It’s kind of like soccer. The rules might be arbitrary, but there are rules. They do exist. You and your family might not care about them when you are kicking the ball around in the backyard, or you might have your own “Johnson Family” soccer rules, and that’s fine. But if you are going to play with a group of people who don’t know each other well, everyone is generally going to play by the conventional rules, so it behooves you to learn them. And if your spouse grew up in a family that really cared about soccer and you never really played, they are going to expect you to learn the real rules of the game.
The history of the rules doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter who made them or who wrote them down. It also doesn’t matter if you “subscribe” to them. They exist outside of you.
You might not want to be a sheep and play in your own special way, but that doesn’t make you a free thinker. It makes you clueless at best and kind of a jerk at worst.
Anonymous
04/14/2026 17:31
Subject: Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:[google]Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, I actually have the same problem. After 26 years, DH still puts the napkin on the right with the knife and spoon on it and it drives me crazy. But I just change it and don’t make a federal case out of it.
Why is that a problem?
Because Princess is putting on airs acting like Tuesday supper is a State Dinner.
The rules of etiquette are the same everywhere. There is not one set of rules for Tuesday supper and a completely different one for a State Dinner.
I think this is comforting for kids. It can bring a sense of normalcy even in extreme situations. Ma Ingalls made sure that the girls set the table correctly out on the frontier. So did the Girl Guide leaders at the Weixian Internment Camp during WWII.
Establishing routines and patterns that can be followed in any situation makes difficult things psychologically easier to handle.
Who decided the rules of etiquette and under what authority?
Are you the same poster who insisted that it was ridiculous for kids to need a red sweater for the school chorus trip? You are a nightmare.
No.
Now answer the question, please.
Like you want a history lesson? Are you asking about when various ancient civilizations started using various rituals and customs in day to day life? Or are you asking about dinnerware specifically?
What do you mean “who decided the rules of etiquette?”
I literally mean who decided the rules of etiquette, and under what authority?
Some of you seem to be under the impression that these completely *arbitrary* rules are equivalent to scripture, and fail to comprehend that we’re not all members of your religion…
lol…okay.
You are welcome to try to change them. Sneak into wedding venues and restaurants and throw the knives around. Be a flatware anarchist!!!
So… zero clue, zero curiosity. What a good sheep.
I kind of took it as a joke that political outrage might be directed in a more constructive manner.