Anonymous
12/29/2024 16:53
Subject: Re:Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
What did Jeanette Dixon do to limit wasteful spending when she was on the board? Don’t criticize it now.
And this is why we can’t get anything done because folks are focus on what Jeanette Dixon did or didn’t do in the past. Her point now is valid. Everyone of common sense knows that MCPS needs a big budget ask to get things right, just as they know that most other Supers have never been able to make such a big ask. Also it’s well known that this is supposed to be another fiscally difficult year.
Further there are some things listed here while nice are unrealistic. 688 Special Ed positions while secondary teachers continue to suffer with classroom sizes well above 30. And no mention of the type of Special Ed positions. Program and program location study as discretionary though it’s been stated repeatedly will be done alongside the boundary study. In fact Taylor said doing it in house was more effective and less costly than letting the hired boundary study contractor do it. And do all the BOE’s priorities, I heard no actual mention of how this budget helps to address them (sure I can make some inferences and assumptions but I shouldn’t have to).
Meanwhile we want folks to waste time, energy and likely dollars trying to turn the Transition half-day into a whole day. Like who the hell cares.
You can't possibly be questioning the need for those special education positions. They're absolutely needed. And MCPS should be paying those positions more so that they can fill them.
+1 This. MCPS is on the verge of facing major lawsuit for not meeting IDEA. SPED programs are running on fumes. There have been major cuts to autism programs, staffing ratios are not compliant, and non-public placements have long waitlists and are $100k/per kid. There is a cohort of SN kids who the county has no where to put - literally they aren’t allowed to enter the building of their homeschools (though assigned on paper) and they don’t have a spot in a non-placement. So they are home on home and hospital instruction while they wait. Hop to the SN board and you’ll see how needed a SPED overhaul is…
I’d rather see MCPS putting that $100k/student private tuition for non-public into hiring more sped teachers….
Until MCEA allows MCPS to restructure SPeD pay they're going to have a very hard time recruiting for those positions.
+1.
Special education teachers, SLPs, OTs, and paraeducators working with children with special needs should have a separate pay scale that is 20% higher than the standard scales (with benefits for all SPED paraeducators). Throw in a signing bonus with a 5 year commitment.
English and social studies teachers in MCPS will never let that happen. They're terrified STEM teachers would also get higher pay than them.
STEM is harder to staff than English and SS. Particularly high level classes. That said, the English and some History classes should get TA’s to help with grading.
Given our poor literacy and writing proficiency levels in MD and MCPS, no one should be minimizing the value and importance of strong, comprehensive instruction in ELA or social studies.
STEM subjects are not inherently more valuable than ELA and SS.
My hs student has read one book this year in honors English. The curriculum is a huge problem.
The curriculum is not the problem and if so to a lesser extent. Implementation is a problem. Setting High Expectations isn’t a problem. Student being properly prepared is a problem. Large class sizes and teachers having too many sections is a problem.
DP. You need to start with a strong curriculum, then focus on implementation. MCPS decided to create its own curriculum for HS "honors" English, and it is weak, not even on level. It includes several graphic novels and below-grade level regular novels intended for struggling readers. This is in the updated curriculum they just put out. They could have selected an external curriculum that is publicly available and aligned with standards, but they decided to do this in-house.
You're trying to tell me that a HS English teacher, supplied with the below framework, the Maryland HS English standards, a list of all these possible book choices, and examples of at least 30 types of assignments is struggling because of lack of curriculum?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dvdxp67J8R0s9DqSHhc5yFE2axPHUA4r/view?pli=1
https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/ELA/Standards/Grades_9_10_11_12_MCCR_ELA%20Standards.pdf
The new curriculum does not have 30 book choices. There are a couple per marking period, and only one is at grade level.
I don’t know whether teachers are struggling or not — but I can tell you that a crappy curriculum means that students necessarily aren’t getting much out of the class.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 16:48
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:There's also been a shortage of forwignnlanguage teachers for over a decade. Those who teach done know the languages they are teaching - a total disaster. As are physics, stem, special ed, etc. The entire field of teaching, and can you blame teachers? Horrible pay, entitled parents, kids with horroble behaviors and absolutely no consequences.
Who here would wish their child to become a teacher? Noone
So your children will do something else...
Anonymous
12/29/2024 15:42
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis
If the pension is so crappy let's get rid of it. It is eating up the budget, and no, not just the teachers in the old system. The county added a supplement ten years ago, it costs a ton of money so please, gtfooh
Anonymous
12/29/2024 15:17
Subject: Re:Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
What did Jeanette Dixon do to limit wasteful spending when she was on the board? Don’t criticize it now.
And this is why we can’t get anything done because folks are focus on what Jeanette Dixon did or didn’t do in the past. Her point now is valid. Everyone of common sense knows that MCPS needs a big budget ask to get things right, just as they know that most other Supers have never been able to make such a big ask. Also it’s well known that this is supposed to be another fiscally difficult year.
Further there are some things listed here while nice are unrealistic. 688 Special Ed positions while secondary teachers continue to suffer with classroom sizes well above 30. And no mention of the type of Special Ed positions. Program and program location study as discretionary though it’s been stated repeatedly will be done alongside the boundary study. In fact Taylor said doing it in house was more effective and less costly than letting the hired boundary study contractor do it. And do all the BOE’s priorities, I heard no actual mention of how this budget helps to address them (sure I can make some inferences and assumptions but I shouldn’t have to).
Meanwhile we want folks to waste time, energy and likely dollars trying to turn the Transition half-day into a whole day. Like who the hell cares.
You can't possibly be questioning the need for those special education positions. They're absolutely needed. And MCPS should be paying those positions more so that they can fill them.
+1 This. MCPS is on the verge of facing major lawsuit for not meeting IDEA. SPED programs are running on fumes. There have been major cuts to autism programs, staffing ratios are not compliant, and non-public placements have long waitlists and are $100k/per kid. There is a cohort of SN kids who the county has no where to put - literally they aren’t allowed to enter the building of their homeschools (though assigned on paper) and they don’t have a spot in a non-placement. So they are home on home and hospital instruction while they wait. Hop to the SN board and you’ll see how needed a SPED overhaul is…
I’d rather see MCPS putting that $100k/student private tuition for non-public into hiring more sped teachers….
Until MCEA allows MCPS to restructure SPeD pay they're going to have a very hard time recruiting for those positions.
+1.
Special education teachers, SLPs, OTs, and paraeducators working with children with special needs should have a separate pay scale that is 20% higher than the standard scales (with benefits for all SPED paraeducators). Throw in a signing bonus with a 5 year commitment.
English and social studies teachers in MCPS will never let that happen. They're terrified STEM teachers would also get higher pay than them.
STEM is harder to staff than English and SS. Particularly high level classes. That said, the English and some History classes should get TA’s to help with grading.
Given our poor literacy and writing proficiency levels in MD and MCPS, no one should be minimizing the value and importance of strong, comprehensive instruction in ELA or social studies.
STEM subjects are not inherently more valuable than ELA and SS.
My hs student has read one book this year in honors English. The curriculum is a huge problem.
The curriculum is not the problem and if so to a lesser extent. Implementation is a problem. Setting High Expectations isn’t a problem. Student being properly prepared is a problem. Large class sizes and teachers having too many sections is a problem.
DP. You need to start with a strong curriculum, then focus on implementation. MCPS decided to create its own curriculum for HS "honors" English, and it is weak, not even on level. It includes several graphic novels and below-grade level regular novels intended for struggling readers. This is in the updated curriculum they just put out. They could have selected an external curriculum that is publicly available and aligned with standards, but they decided to do this in-house.
You're trying to tell me that a HS English teacher, supplied with the below framework, the Maryland HS English standards, a list of all these possible book choices, and examples of at least 30 types of assignments is struggling because of lack of curriculum?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dvdxp67J8R0s9DqSHhc5yFE2axPHUA4r/view?pli=1
https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/ELA/Standards/Grades_9_10_11_12_MCCR_ELA%20Standards.pdf
Anonymous
12/29/2024 14:55
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis
Anonymous
12/29/2024 14:48
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's also been a shortage of forwignnlanguage teachers for over a decade. Those who teach done know the languages they are teaching - a total disaster. As are physics, stem, special ed, etc. The entire field of teaching, and can you blame teachers? Horrible pay, entitled parents, kids with horroble behaviors and absolutely no consequences.
Who here would wish their child to become a teacher? Noone
"Forwignnlanguages" is another area that doesn't have the same legal or educational importance as special education. That shouldn't be a priority until we get other subjects in better shape.
I agree that first MCPS needs to meet legal requirements for SPED. MCPS spends money now on defending lawsuits about SPED rather than just actually meeting legal requirements. If to meet legal requirements SPED teachers or paras need a pay bump or other change to working conditions to ensure staffing requirements are met then that must be done. Not doing this is costing MCPS money and putting them at risk of high payouts when sued.
It is also true that MCPS has trouble attracting high level STEM teachers but since MCPS is already using Montgomery college to meet this need it does not seem as much a priority as making sure MCPS is not sued and can stop spending money defending against lawsuits from SPED families. Yes, I think MCPS should offer these classes at each high school but they do have a back up plan. The problem here is STEM professions often pay much better for the skill set that high level stem teachers possess. I do not think MCPS can compete on pay for these professionals. But they can compete on working conditions so should focus there.
And yes Foreign Language teachers are also in short supply, especially good teachers, but I would rather see money spent to lower class sizes across the board and create better working conditions for all teachers hoping then to attract and retain better teachers.
Of teachers and Paras SPED does require a different skill set and also requires the ability to manage difficult behaviors including behaviors that could cause physical injury. It makes sense to pay differently for SPED. It also makes sense to make sure there are enough SPED paras so that regular classroom teachers do not need to manage SPED students as well as their whole class.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 14:20
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's also been a shortage of forwignnlanguage teachers for over a decade. Those who teach done know the languages they are teaching - a total disaster. As are physics, stem, special ed, etc. The entire field of teaching, and can you blame teachers? Horrible pay, entitled parents, kids with horroble behaviors and absolutely no consequences.
Who here would wish their child to become a teacher? Noone
"Forwignnlanguages" is another area that doesn't have the same legal or educational importance as special education. That shouldn't be a priority until we get other subjects in better shape.
I agree that first MCPS needs to meet legal requirements for SPED. MCPS spends money now on defending lawsuits about SPED rather than just actually meeting legal requirements. If to meet legal requirements SPED teachers or paras need a pay bump or other change to working conditions to ensure staffing requirements are met then that must be done. Not doing this is costing MCPS money and putting them at risk of high payouts when sued.
It is also true that MCPS has trouble attracting high level STEM teachers but since MCPS is already using Montgomery college to meet this need it does not seem as much a priority as making sure MCPS is not sued and can stop spending money defending against lawsuits from SPED families. Yes, I think MCPS should offer these classes at each high school but they do have a back up plan. The problem here is STEM professions often pay much better for the skill set that high level stem teachers possess. I do not think MCPS can compete on pay for these professionals. But they can compete on working conditions so should focus there.
And yes Foreign Language teachers are also in short supply, especially good teachers, but I would rather see money spent to lower class sizes across the board and create better working conditions for all teachers hoping then to attract and retain better teachers.
Of teachers and Paras SPED does require a different skill set and also requires the ability to manage difficult behaviors including behaviors that could cause physical injury. It makes sense to pay differently for SPED. It also makes sense to make sure there are enough SPED paras so that regular classroom teachers do not need to manage SPED students as well as their whole class.
Pp here.
For what it's worth, I don't think we're really competing with particularly high-paying private sector jobs for STEM teachers. Private sector STEM jobs are very different than STEM teaching jobs. Very different skills. Very different environments. And different classes in college in most cases.
I think you need to look at it in terms of encouraging more people interested in teaching to persue the STEM path from the beginning. A relatively small differential could help there.
Obviously that wouldn't address the overall teacher shortage. But I think there's only way one to do that: improve conditions by reducing workloads. That should improve the quality of education, too.
But it will obviously come at a cost. My fear is that the further we go down our current path of maintaining expensive benefits and doing moderate across-the-board pay increases, the harder (read: more expensive) it will be to make the broader structural changes that are will be necessary long-term.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 12:50
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's also been a shortage of forwignnlanguage teachers for over a decade. Those who teach done know the languages they are teaching - a total disaster. As are physics, stem, special ed, etc. The entire field of teaching, and can you blame teachers? Horrible pay, entitled parents, kids with horroble behaviors and absolutely no consequences.
Who here would wish their child to become a teacher? Noone
"Forwignnlanguages" is another area that doesn't have the same legal or educational importance as special education. That shouldn't be a priority until we get other subjects in better shape.
I agree that first MCPS needs to meet legal requirements for SPED. MCPS spends money now on defending lawsuits about SPED rather than just actually meeting legal requirements. If to meet legal requirements SPED teachers or paras need a pay bump or other change to working conditions to ensure staffing requirements are met then that must be done. Not doing this is costing MCPS money and putting them at risk of high payouts when sued.
It is also true that MCPS has trouble attracting high level STEM teachers but since MCPS is already using Montgomery college to meet this need it does not seem as much a priority as making sure MCPS is not sued and can stop spending money defending against lawsuits from SPED families. Yes, I think MCPS should offer these classes at each high school but they do have a back up plan. The problem here is STEM professions often pay much better for the skill set that high level stem teachers possess. I do not think MCPS can compete on pay for these professionals. But they can compete on working conditions so should focus there.
And yes Foreign Language teachers are also in short supply, especially good teachers, but I would rather see money spent to lower class sizes across the board and create better working conditions for all teachers hoping then to attract and retain better teachers.
Of teachers and Paras SPED does require a different skill set and also requires the ability to manage difficult behaviors including behaviors that could cause physical injury. It makes sense to pay differently for SPED. It also makes sense to make sure there are enough SPED paras so that regular classroom teachers do not need to manage SPED students as well as their whole class.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 12:46
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Pay isn’t the issue. Student behavior without consequences and unsustainable workloads are what need to be addressed.
Many teachers I know would go back to SpEd for the same pay but more planning time.
While that's probably true for Special Education Teachers, the pay is a serious limiting factor for recruiting and retaining SLPs and OTs. And it frankly leads to low-quality paraeducators for the critical staffing roles that don't come with benefits.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 12:44
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Pay isn’t the issue. Student behavior without consequences and unsustainable workloads are what need to be addressed.
Student behavior is part of a broader societal problem. Schools really can't do much on that without creating bigger problems elsewhere, unfortunately. I know some people on Dcum want to expel kids left and right, but that will just make things worse.
We can do things about workload, though. We need to restructure pay and compensation to make it more practical to hire staff. That ultimately means saving money where we can, and spending more money when necessary to create and fill positions in critical areas.
We're going to have to rip off the bandaid at some point. Get rid of pensions in favor or defined contribution plans. Adjust health care cost-sharing to be in-line with other public sector jobs. Establish separate pay scales for different topic areas, and structure them as pay bands to give schools more flexibility to adjust salaries as needed to fill specific roles. Carefully consider what electives and special programs can be cut back to reallocate resources to basic programs.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 12:42
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:Pay isn’t the issue. Student behavior without consequences and unsustainable workloads are what need to be addressed.
Many teachers I know would go back to SpEd for the same pay but more planning time.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 12:29
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Pay isn’t the issue. Student behavior without consequences and unsustainable workloads are what need to be addressed.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 12:25
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:There's also been a shortage of forwignnlanguage teachers for over a decade. Those who teach done know the languages they are teaching - a total disaster. As are physics, stem, special ed, etc. The entire field of teaching, and can you blame teachers? Horrible pay, entitled parents, kids with horroble behaviors and absolutely no consequences.
Who here would wish their child to become a teacher? Noone
Also, teacher pay isn't "horrible." Particularly when you look at overall compensation, it is very competitive (often higher) than public sector jobs and private sector jobs in liberal arts areas.
Pay isn't the issue. Workload is.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 12:23
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
Anonymous wrote:There's also been a shortage of forwignnlanguage teachers for over a decade. Those who teach done know the languages they are teaching - a total disaster. As are physics, stem, special ed, etc. The entire field of teaching, and can you blame teachers? Horrible pay, entitled parents, kids with horroble behaviors and absolutely no consequences.
Who here would wish their child to become a teacher? Noone
"Forwignnlanguages" is another area that doesn't have the same legal or educational importance as special education. That shouldn't be a priority until we get other subjects in better shape.
Anonymous
12/29/2024 11:59
Subject: Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget
There's also been a shortage of forwignnlanguage teachers for over a decade. Those who teach done know the languages they are teaching - a total disaster. As are physics, stem, special ed, etc. The entire field of teaching, and can you blame teachers? Horrible pay, entitled parents, kids with horroble behaviors and absolutely no consequences.
Who here would wish their child to become a teacher? Noone
Who here would wish their child to become a teacher? Noone