Anonymous
09/07/2024 17:26
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Initially I was puzzled with some of the ratings in the various categories, until I realized that they are based on actual data vs expectations, where if the data outperforms the expectations, they receive a higher rating. I was looking specifically at graduation rate and was initially surprised to see higher grad ratings on some of the schools where I knew they were lower.
I actually like this balanced approach. I think looking at both this ranking and USNWR would be a good way to evaluate a school. I also like the New York Times tool, where you can set your own parameters. You can learn a lot from these three platforms.
No, it's like measuring your schwantz from the floor up. Does not give an accurate measurement of what it claims to. It's data, not information.
Sorry you are not happy with the results of your school that sunk in the rankings. Signed, mom of kid whose kid's school is in top 20 for both USNWR and WSJ.
+ a million
The PP is no different than a spoiled kid throwing a tantrum. Absolutely insufferable.
You are the one whining, and you are agreeing the the PP who went to ad hominem attacks with no salient point.
You also didn't read the response to the post which showed the PP's accusation was incorrect.
There was no ad hominem attack. You're just incredibly angry because your school (or your kid's school) is low, low, low on this list and you feel entitled to a high ranking. *Shrug*
Wow you can't read.
There certainly was an ad hominem attack - an accusation that I was angry about my kids schools ranking as the reason for the post. That is the definition of ad hominem, attacking the messenger and not the message.
And you didn't read the second part either where I mentioned where my kids went to school, and I have no idea where they rank on the WSJ list and only a vague idea on USN.
Nobody's angry.
These ranking are useless.
You know exactly where your kids' schools rank on both the USN and WSJ lists. Please.
No, I don't, and I did not look them up. If you had read the thread, my kids both have their undergrad degrees and one is in grad school. No reason to look them up now.
Why is that so important to you that you won't let it go? Why am I in your head? Focus on the facts and the lists and lets leave personal stuff out of it, OK?
NP, but the sense I get is that YOU have a hard time letting it go...and I agree with the PP that based on the multiple comments you have made on this thread, there is no way you did not look up your kids' schools lol.
1. As stated, you are likely confusing multiple posters
2. As stated, no I did not look them up, and don’t care to. Unusual that you are applying that to me as a pejorative when you are the one who has done so.
3. I am talking about the virtues (or lack thereof) of this ranking, and you are talking ABOUT ME. That is weird, creepy, and honestly a bit disturbing. I don’t get it. I am respectfully asking yet again for you to leave personal attacks out of it.
DP. Do you know what “NP” (and DP) mean? It is you who is confusing posters. And anyone participating on this thread has obviously looked up their own kids’ schools.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 17:22
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Initially I was puzzled with some of the ratings in the various categories, until I realized that they are based on actual data vs expectations, where if the data outperforms the expectations, they receive a higher rating. I was looking specifically at graduation rate and was initially surprised to see higher grad ratings on some of the schools where I knew they were lower.
I actually like this balanced approach. I think looking at both this ranking and USNWR would be a good way to evaluate a school. I also like the New York Times tool, where you can set your own parameters. You can learn a lot from these three platforms.
No, it's like measuring your schwantz from the floor up. Does not give an accurate measurement of what it claims to. It's data, not information.
Sorry you are not happy with the results of your school that sunk in the rankings. Signed, mom of kid whose kid's school is in top 20 for both USNWR and WSJ.
+ a million
The PP is no different than a spoiled kid throwing a tantrum. Absolutely insufferable.
You are the one whining, and you are agreeing the the PP who went to ad hominem attacks with no salient point.
You also didn't read the response to the post which showed the PP's accusation was incorrect.
There was no ad hominem attack. You're just incredibly angry because your school (or your kid's school) is low, low, low on this list and you feel entitled to a high ranking. *Shrug*
Wow you can't read.
There certainly was an ad hominem attack - an accusation that I was angry about my kids schools ranking as the reason for the post. That is the definition of ad hominem, attacking the messenger and not the message.
And you didn't read the second part either where I mentioned where my kids went to school, and I have no idea where they rank on the WSJ list and only a vague idea on USN.
Nobody's angry.
These ranking are useless.
No, I don't, and I did not look them up. If you had read the thread, my kids both have their undergrad degrees and one is in grad school. No reason to look them up now.
Why is that so important to you that you won't let it go? Why am I in your head? Focus on the facts and the lists and lets leave personal stuff out of it, OK?
NP, but the sense I get is that YOU have a hard time letting it go...and I agree with the PP that based on the multiple comments you have made on this thread, there is no way you did not look up your kids' schools lol.
+1000
Exactly. There is no way someone so very troubled and triggered by these rankings didn’t immediately look up his/her own kids’ schools. It’s comical that PP pretends otherwise.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 17:21
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Makes sense. NYU, Wake, Emory, Northeastern, Georgia, Florida, Northwestern, UCSB are definitely way below UC Merced and San Jose State. Everyone with a brain knows this.
San Jose State has proven to have excellent results as long as you plan to work in SV…of course tons of people want to work in SV so not an issue.
I imagine that in fact it is a much better feeder into SV than NYU, Emory, Georgia, Wake, Florida, etc.
However…it’s not going to do much for you nationally.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 16:59
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Here’s the LAC top 50 overlap with USNWR:
Claremont McKenna
Davidson
Harvey Mudd
Colgate
Swarthmore
Washington and Lee
Claremont McKenna
Davidson
Harvey Mudd
Colgate
Swarthmore
Washington and Lee
Anonymous
09/07/2024 16:44
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Makes sense. NYU, Wake, Emory, Northeastern, Georgia, Florida, Northwestern, UCSB are definitely way below UC Merced and San Jose State. Everyone with a brain knows this.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 16:44
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain how Claremont McKenna is so high and Pomona is so low? Are they really that different? I’ve read the whole thread and the methodology - and as a Colgate alum I’m happy with my college’s placement - but I still think this list is weird.
These schools are extremely different. Pomona is modelled as a West Coast Dartmouth. It produces a high percentage that go on to do PhDs. CMC has preparing for the professions in the mission statement. The school frames the experience so the kids are focused on going for MBB/finance. The school does an amazing job of framing the experience around that objective. Many successful entrepreneurs value this, so the student body tends to be well connected, and the school incorporates this into its network as much as alums. Ultimately, the outcomes are amazing & the CMC network appreciates this, in turn setting records for SLAC fundraisings for the entire country (over $1bn raised in last fund raising drive).
So if your methodology is ROI, it goes to CMC. If it’s PhD, you then it goes to Pomona.
Pomona scores very low on salary impact compared to CMC…however, salary impact only looks at kids getting jobs. There are no points detracted for kids that go to grad school.
This implies Pomona grads take very different jobs vs CMC grads.
Pomona has very academic kids. CMC has business and finance kids. Dartmouth is like those two schools put together.
What does that mean from a job perspective? Pomona kids that go into the workforce take jobs at NPOs or where?
Many Pomona kids go to grad school, medical school, or law school. The Pomona grads that go into the workforce go to different companies, not just NPOs. A CS major can go to a tech company, for example. I have heard that Swarthmore is very similar to Pomona and also like this.
So why is Swarthmore ranked 35 and Pomona 170?
Maybe because Swarthmore offers degrees in engineering and Pomona does not. Also, Swarthmore is geographically closer to banking and consulting centers, so maybe they have more kids going into those high-paying jobs.
What about Amherst and Williams? They’re even closer to NYC.
I don't know. Probably Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore all do better in $$$ outcome than Pomona. The kids at Pomona are throwing a frisbee around in January while the kids at the other schools are snowed in and studying.
Or maybe the WSJ came up with a completely useless ranking that makes no sense whatsoever. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to put UC Merced in the top 20. And Pomona at 170.
There is actually zero mental gymnastics. It’s all from mathematical formulas based on quantitative data.
But someone could have entered the data wrong, and there could be problems with the data. The number crunchers could have used zeroes in place of missing data or pre-COVID-year data to replace missing evidence COVID data.
I can understand why Bentley might have a high rank on a WSJ list, but Rochester just isn’t that different from Wash. U.
That’s ridiculous. The data isn’t pre-Covid or entered wrong. Perhaps you don’t agree with how the data was collected but it was the same way across all schools.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 16:40
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
I like the idea of looking at alumni salaries. These are understandably important metrics for most people. However, I noticed that when you sort the list by salary, it jumps all over the place. There isn't a good correlation between the ranking and the salary metric. Which is interesting because from the desperate way some parents talk about college admissions, you'd think their kids will end up destitute unless they get into a t25/t50 school. These metrics should reassure everyone that the school brand doesn't have that much of an effect on financial attainment.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 16:32
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
It’s trash. 100% acceptance rate schools in the Top 20, sub-10% acceptance rates not even in the Top 250, the most applied to school in the country not even in the Top 50?
Commendable clickbait, but nothing more. The authors get a solid A- for getting people upset, but expelled immediately if their goal was to actually rearrange the academic paradigm.
Commendable clickbait, but nothing more. The authors get a solid A- for getting people upset, but expelled immediately if their goal was to actually rearrange the academic paradigm.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 16:14
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain how Claremont McKenna is so high and Pomona is so low? Are they really that different? I’ve read the whole thread and the methodology - and as a Colgate alum I’m happy with my college’s placement - but I still think this list is weird.
These schools are extremely different. Pomona is modelled as a West Coast Dartmouth. It produces a high percentage that go on to do PhDs. CMC has preparing for the professions in the mission statement. The school frames the experience so the kids are focused on going for MBB/finance. The school does an amazing job of framing the experience around that objective. Many successful entrepreneurs value this, so the student body tends to be well connected, and the school incorporates this into its network as much as alums. Ultimately, the outcomes are amazing & the CMC network appreciates this, in turn setting records for SLAC fundraisings for the entire country (over $1bn raised in last fund raising drive).
So if your methodology is ROI, it goes to CMC. If it’s PhD, you then it goes to Pomona.
Pomona scores very low on salary impact compared to CMC…however, salary impact only looks at kids getting jobs. There are no points detracted for kids that go to grad school.
This implies Pomona grads take very different jobs vs CMC grads.
Pomona has very academic kids. CMC has business and finance kids. Dartmouth is like those two schools put together.
What does that mean from a job perspective? Pomona kids that go into the workforce take jobs at NPOs or where?
Many Pomona kids go to grad school, medical school, or law school. The Pomona grads that go into the workforce go to different companies, not just NPOs. A CS major can go to a tech company, for example. I have heard that Swarthmore is very similar to Pomona and also like this.
So why is Swarthmore ranked 35 and Pomona 170?
Maybe because Swarthmore offers degrees in engineering and Pomona does not. Also, Swarthmore is geographically closer to banking and consulting centers, so maybe they have more kids going into those high-paying jobs.
What about Amherst and Williams? They’re even closer to NYC.
I don't know. Probably Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore all do better in $$$ outcome than Pomona. The kids at Pomona are throwing a frisbee around in January while the kids at the other schools are snowed in and studying.
Or maybe the WSJ came up with a completely useless ranking that makes no sense whatsoever. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to put UC Merced in the top 20. And Pomona at 170.
There is actually zero mental gymnastics. It’s all from mathematical formulas based on quantitative data.
But someone could have entered the data wrong, and there could be problems with the data. The number crunchers could have used zeroes in place of missing data or pre-COVID-year data to replace missing evidence COVID data.
I can understand why Bentley might have a high rank on a WSJ list, but Rochester just isn’t that different from Wash. U.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 16:14
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Only nine of the top 20 USNWR made top 20 on this list.
Princeton
Stanford
Yale
MIT
Harvard
Berkeley
Penn
Columbia
Notre Dame
OK had a bit of time to cross reference the top 50 USNWR.
Those USNWR top 50 that made WSJ top 50:
Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Penn
Cal Tech
Duke
Brown
Cornell
Columbia
Berkeley
Rice
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
Michigan
Georgetown
Wash U
UVA
USC
UC San Diego
UC Davis
UT Austin
UC Irvine
Gtech
Those USNWR top 50 that didn't make top 50 WSJ and along with their WSJ rank:
Hopkins 92
Northwestern 62
Chicago 75
UCLA 79
Dartmouth 57
UNC 59
Emory 103
CMU 56
U Florida 83
NYU 273
UC Santa Barbara 179
Wisconsin 73
U Illinois 53
Boston College 100
Wake Forest 137
U Rochester 316
William and Mary 178
Brandeis 335
Case Western 224
Tulane 451
Northeastern 168
U Georgia 151
Ohio State 329
I’m a Wash. U. alum.
It’s fun to see Wash. U. do well on these lists, but any list where Case Western, Rochester, Tulane and Brandeis rank so much lower seems odd.
It’s also hard to trust a list that sets UC Merced over Wash. U. or Wash. U. over the University of Chicago.
This isn't a list to brag about. San Jose State is ranked 16 on wsj this year but 173 last year. Emory was 38 last year but 103 this year. There's nothing a school can do to rise 150 spots other than the ranking being completely different.
It’s very hard to take these rankings seriously anymore or put much credence into them when there are extreme fluctuations from year to year. The schools have not changed that much over the course of one year but clearly the methodology has. It’s impossible to make sense of these lists, this one especially seems all over the map.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 16:13
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Only nine of the top 20 USNWR made top 20 on this list.
Princeton
Stanford
Yale
MIT
Harvard
Berkeley
Penn
Columbia
Notre Dame
OK had a bit of time to cross reference the top 50 USNWR.
Those USNWR top 50 that made WSJ top 50:
Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Penn
Cal Tech
Duke
Brown
Cornell
Columbia
Berkeley
Rice
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
Michigan
Georgetown
Wash U
UVA
USC
UC San Diego
UC Davis
UT Austin
UC Irvine
Gtech
Those USNWR top 50 that didn't make top 50 WSJ and along with their WSJ rank:
Hopkins 92
Northwestern 62
Chicago 75
UCLA 79
Dartmouth 57
UNC 59
Emory 103
CMU 56
U Florida 83
NYU 273
UC Santa Barbara 179
Wisconsin 73
U Illinois 53
Boston College 100
Wake Forest 137
U Rochester 316
William and Mary 178
Brandeis 335
Case Western 224
Tulane 451
Northeastern 168
U Georgia 151
Ohio State 329
I’m a Wash. U. alum.
It’s fun to see Wash. U. do well on these lists, but any list where Case Western, Rochester, Tulane and Brandeis rank so much lower seems odd.
It’s also hard to trust a list that sets UC Merced over Wash. U. or Wash. U. over the University of Chicago.
Lehigh made both lists. USNEWS 47, WSJ 15
They didn’t include any of the LACs. Someone earlier posted that Claremont McKenna, Davidson, and Harvey Mudd are in the top 20 of both the WSJ and USNWR LACs lists. You could lookup the lists and extend that analysis to the overlap of the top 50.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 15:54
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Only nine of the top 20 USNWR made top 20 on this list.
Princeton
Stanford
Yale
MIT
Harvard
Berkeley
Penn
Columbia
Notre Dame
OK had a bit of time to cross reference the top 50 USNWR.
Those USNWR top 50 that made WSJ top 50:
Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Penn
Cal Tech
Duke
Brown
Cornell
Columbia
Berkeley
Rice
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
Michigan
Georgetown
Wash U
UVA
USC
UC San Diego
UC Davis
UT Austin
UC Irvine
Gtech
Those USNWR top 50 that didn't make top 50 WSJ and along with their WSJ rank:
Hopkins 92
Northwestern 62
Chicago 75
UCLA 79
Dartmouth 57
UNC 59
Emory 103
CMU 56
U Florida 83
NYU 273
UC Santa Barbara 179
Wisconsin 73
U Illinois 53
Boston College 100
Wake Forest 137
U Rochester 316
William and Mary 178
Brandeis 335
Case Western 224
Tulane 451
Northeastern 168
U Georgia 151
Ohio State 329
I’m a Wash. U. alum.
It’s fun to see Wash. U. do well on these lists, but any list where Case Western, Rochester, Tulane and Brandeis rank so much lower seems odd.
It’s also hard to trust a list that sets UC Merced over Wash. U. or Wash. U. over the University of Chicago.
This isn't a list to brag about. San Jose State is ranked 16 on wsj this year but 173 last year. Emory was 38 last year but 103 this year. There's nothing a school can do to rise 150 spots other than the ranking being completely different.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 15:52
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Only nine of the top 20 USNWR made top 20 on this list.
Princeton
Stanford
Yale
MIT
Harvard
Berkeley
Penn
Columbia
Notre Dame
OK had a bit of time to cross reference the top 50 USNWR.
Those USNWR top 50 that made WSJ top 50:
Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Penn
Cal Tech
Duke
Brown
Cornell
Columbia
Berkeley
Rice
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
Michigan
Georgetown
Wash U
UVA
USC
UC San Diego
UC Davis
UT Austin
UC Irvine
Gtech
Those USNWR top 50 that didn't make top 50 WSJ and along with their WSJ rank:
Hopkins 92
Northwestern 62
Chicago 75
UCLA 79
Dartmouth 57
UNC 59
Emory 103
CMU 56
U Florida 83
NYU 273
UC Santa Barbara 179
Wisconsin 73
U Illinois 53
Boston College 100
Wake Forest 137
U Rochester 316
William and Mary 178
Brandeis 335
Case Western 224
Tulane 451
Northeastern 168
U Georgia 151
Ohio State 329
I’m a Wash. U. alum.
It’s fun to see Wash. U. do well on these lists, but any list where Case Western, Rochester, Tulane and Brandeis rank so much lower seems odd.
It’s also hard to trust a list that sets UC Merced over Wash. U. or Wash. U. over the University of Chicago.
Lehigh made both lists. USNEWS 47, WSJ 15
Anonymous
09/07/2024 15:34
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain how Claremont McKenna is so high and Pomona is so low? Are they really that different? I’ve read the whole thread and the methodology - and as a Colgate alum I’m happy with my college’s placement - but I still think this list is weird.
These schools are extremely different. Pomona is modelled as a West Coast Dartmouth. It produces a high percentage that go on to do PhDs. CMC has preparing for the professions in the mission statement. The school frames the experience so the kids are focused on going for MBB/finance. The school does an amazing job of framing the experience around that objective. Many successful entrepreneurs value this, so the student body tends to be well connected, and the school incorporates this into its network as much as alums. Ultimately, the outcomes are amazing & the CMC network appreciates this, in turn setting records for SLAC fundraisings for the entire country (over $1bn raised in last fund raising drive).
So if your methodology is ROI, it goes to CMC. If it’s PhD, you then it goes to Pomona.
Pomona scores very low on salary impact compared to CMC…however, salary impact only looks at kids getting jobs. There are no points detracted for kids that go to grad school.
This implies Pomona grads take very different jobs vs CMC grads.
Pomona has very academic kids. CMC has business and finance kids. Dartmouth is like those two schools put together.
What does that mean from a job perspective? Pomona kids that go into the workforce take jobs at NPOs or where?
Many Pomona kids go to grad school, medical school, or law school. The Pomona grads that go into the workforce go to different companies, not just NPOs. A CS major can go to a tech company, for example. I have heard that Swarthmore is very similar to Pomona and also like this.
So why is Swarthmore ranked 35 and Pomona 170?
Maybe because Swarthmore offers degrees in engineering and Pomona does not. Also, Swarthmore is geographically closer to banking and consulting centers, so maybe they have more kids going into those high-paying jobs.
What about Amherst and Williams? They’re even closer to NYC.
I don't know. Probably Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore all do better in $$$ outcome than Pomona. The kids at Pomona are throwing a frisbee around in January while the kids at the other schools are snowed in and studying.
Or maybe the WSJ came up with a completely useless ranking that makes no sense whatsoever. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to put UC Merced in the top 20. And Pomona at 170.
There is actually zero mental gymnastics. It’s all from mathematical formulas based on quantitative data.
Anonymous
09/07/2024 15:31
Subject: WSJ Rankings 2025
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Only nine of the top 20 USNWR made top 20 on this list.
Princeton
Stanford
Yale
MIT
Harvard
Berkeley
Penn
Columbia
Notre Dame
OK had a bit of time to cross reference the top 50 USNWR.
Those USNWR top 50 that made WSJ top 50:
Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Penn
Cal Tech
Duke
Brown
Cornell
Columbia
Berkeley
Rice
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
Michigan
Georgetown
Wash U
UVA
USC
UC San Diego
UC Davis
UT Austin
UC Irvine
Gtech
Those USNWR top 50 that didn't make top 50 WSJ and along with their WSJ rank:
Hopkins 92
Northwestern 62
Chicago 75
UCLA 79
Dartmouth 57
UNC 59
Emory 103
CMU 56
U Florida 83
NYU 273
UC Santa Barbara 179
Wisconsin 73
U Illinois 53
Boston College 100
Wake Forest 137
U Rochester 316
William and Mary 178
Brandeis 335
Case Western 224
Tulane 451
Northeastern 168
U Georgia 151
Ohio State 329
I’m a Wash. U. alum.
It’s fun to see Wash. U. do well on these lists, but any list where Case Western, Rochester, Tulane and Brandeis rank so much lower seems odd.
It’s also hard to trust a list that sets UC Merced over Wash. U. or Wash. U. over the University of Chicago.