Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is partly a cultural problem. Current American culture is pretty child unfriendly. People don't like to interact with a stranger's kid, and expect kids to be quiet and mostly out of sight (just look at responses in this thread). They expect their flights to be quiet and everyone to be self entertained, as opposed to chatting up strangers like yesteryears. We had a recent flight where not a single person or flight attendant even smiled at my young kids. In this environment, screen time is really a must for parents because no one wants to feel your kid's existence.

In other cultures, it could be different. I don't expect strangers to gush over my kids but when we are on flights or places with a lot of Asians (esp older Asian), for example, the adults love to try to interact with my kids. It is just a more child friendly and centered culture, and my kids can pass some time interacting with these adults. I was once on a flight when my son was 5 months old and he basically played peekaboo with an elderly foreign couple for the entire 2 hour flight. It was great for us parents.

American parenting is just exhausting, lonely, full of judgement.

OP here. You are probably right. The prevailing attitude seems to be that children must immediately be put on a screen so they will sit down/shut up and let adults pacify themselves with their own screens. This adult dependency/ addiction is such a terrible example to set - people are claiming they only do it on planes, but I doubt it.

We take long flights to visit family in Europe and Asia annually, during which time we do a mix of screens and non-screen entertainment like cards, travel-size board games, reading, chatting. We are usually in the business class semi-private cubicles so we are not really disturbing anyone, but I wouldn’t see a problem with doing this in economy either when the lights are on. It’s what my parents and siblings and I did when we were young on long-haul international flights.

And a 3 hour domestic flight is not so stressful that you immediately need to stick your kid and yourself on a screen. There’s so many interesting things to observe, even for kids who have been on flights before. The take-off procedure, flight attendants serving drinks and snacks, landing procedure. Heck, I’ve been on hundreds of flights and still enjoy observing and chatting these things. I strongly feel that kids (and adults) who are stuck on screens miss out on observing the world. But maybe they are too sophisticated and jaded to really care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been intentionally low screen in our house and we did a similar thing on planes. The result is that my kid has developed the skills to chat with people and entertain himself without a screen. My rule was that we had to be considerate of others and I never talked and narrated the whole time. I think that is just as annoying as the parents who let their kids on tablets without headphones.

We’ve been doing this since he was a toddler. Things that kept him occupied were window clings, lots of snacks, cheerio necklaces, and quiet toys like Wix sticks. As he got older we did more quiet card games, puzzles, and now in 2nd grade he mostly reads, listens to audio books, writes, and looks through the seat back stuff. Now that he is older he gets to watch TV if the plane has a screen, but most of his time is no screen. He’s done 16+ hour flights this way and fellow passengers have been commenting on how pleasant he is, so it can be done!

But again, my most important rule was not annoying anyone else on the plane. We are in very close quarters for hours.

Pretty much the same story here which is why OP isn't annoying me that much. I wanted to teach my kid how to entertain herself and be polite on a plane. Yes it would have been easier to hand her an iPad and a pair of headphones and then I could relax for the flight. But as with a lot of parenting approaches I felt that in the longterm I (and everyone) would benefit more if my kid actually developed some skills for dealing with boredom and being stuck in your seat for extended periods.

But yes the goal was quiet in-seat entertainment that didn't bother other passengers. I did occasionally read to her but in a quiet voice -- I was not reciting picture books for the entire plane. We mostly did drawing and coloring or stuff like plus plus blocks that can easily be done in your seat. She also came to know and like the rhythm of the flight so she would look forward to the drink cart coming around and either getting a snack on the plane or opening one we'd brought. I wanted her to learn to interact appropriately with the flight attendants (answer their questions when asked and know how to ask for something simple). It was a lot of work for me but I view it as important skill building.

And yes now it pays off and I don't have to do much for my kid when we travel. She will often watch 30-90 minutes of a show or movie on an iPad or seat-back screen but she will also read and do other things. To me the important part is that she's self-sufficient and is not complaining to me about being bored nor is she reliant on having a screen in front of her just to function. That's what I worry about with just planting a kid on a screen -- that they will become totally dependent on it and then if something happens where the screen isn't available they will throw a fit.

What I notice about this post and the one you are replying to is that you both only seem to have one child. Having more than one kid is a totally different experience. I have one kid who I could chat with for a few hours on the plane and/or he would find ways to amuse himself. I have another kid, though, who would not. Just different temperaments. But the thing is, when there is one kid who won't self entertain on a plane, the whole thing falls apart. The two will bicker. If we try to play games, having multiple kids rile each other up and they get too rowdy. It just doesn't work. Only childs are much more adult/parent focused (I am one). Multiple children are in their own worlds are much harder to manage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been intentionally low screen in our house and we did a similar thing on planes. The result is that my kid has developed the skills to chat with people and entertain himself without a screen. My rule was that we had to be considerate of others and I never talked and narrated the whole time. I think that is just as annoying as the parents who let their kids on tablets without headphones.

We’ve been doing this since he was a toddler. Things that kept him occupied were window clings, lots of snacks, cheerio necklaces, and quiet toys like Wix sticks. As he got older we did more quiet card games, puzzles, and now in 2nd grade he mostly reads, listens to audio books, writes, and looks through the seat back stuff. Now that he is older he gets to watch TV if the plane has a screen, but most of his time is no screen. He’s done 16+ hour flights this way and fellow passengers have been commenting on how pleasant he is, so it can be done!

But again, my most important rule was not annoying anyone else on the plane. We are in very close quarters for hours.

Pretty much the same story here which is why OP isn't annoying me that much. I wanted to teach my kid how to entertain herself and be polite on a plane. Yes it would have been easier to hand her an iPad and a pair of headphones and then I could relax for the flight. But as with a lot of parenting approaches I felt that in the longterm I (and everyone) would benefit more if my kid actually developed some skills for dealing with boredom and being stuck in your seat for extended periods.

But yes the goal was quiet in-seat entertainment that didn't bother other passengers. I did occasionally read to her but in a quiet voice -- I was not reciting picture books for the entire plane. We mostly did drawing and coloring or stuff like plus plus blocks that can easily be done in your seat. She also came to know and like the rhythm of the flight so she would look forward to the drink cart coming around and either getting a snack on the plane or opening one we'd brought. I wanted her to learn to interact appropriately with the flight attendants (answer their questions when asked and know how to ask for something simple). It was a lot of work for me but I view it as important skill building.

And yes now it pays off and I don't have to do much for my kid when we travel. She will often watch 30-90 minutes of a show or movie on an iPad or seat-back screen but she will also read and do other things. To me the important part is that she's self-sufficient and is not complaining to me about being bored nor is she reliant on having a screen in front of her just to function. That's what I worry about with just planting a kid on a screen -- that they will become totally dependent on it and then if something happens where the screen isn't available they will throw a fit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, what do all these anti-American self-righteous rants have to do with OP being a smug, judgmental b!@tch re: people using screens on airplanes?

Because we are in a very sterile and child unfriendly culture, so outside of a few safe spaces, there is very little room for children to be children without being labeled as disruptive and annoying. So parents need screens to pacify, to basically drug their kids to fit in our sterile society.

And this is coming from someone who just let their young kids watch a tablet for a whole 6 hour flight.

Wow 6 hours?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been intentionally low screen in our house and we did a similar thing on planes. The result is that my kid has developed the skills to chat with people and entertain himself without a screen. My rule was that we had to be considerate of others and I never talked and narrated the whole time. I think that is just as annoying as the parents who let their kids on tablets without headphones.

We’ve been doing this since he was a toddler. Things that kept him occupied were window clings, lots of snacks, cheerio necklaces, and quiet toys like Wix sticks. As he got older we did more quiet card games, puzzles, and now in 2nd grade he mostly reads, listens to audio books, writes, and looks through the seat back stuff. Now that he is older he gets to watch TV if the plane has a screen, but most of his time is no screen. He’s done 16+ hour flights this way and fellow passengers have been commenting on how pleasant he is, so it can be done!

But again, my most important rule was not annoying anyone else on the plane. We are in very close quarters for hours.

Pretty much the same story here which is why OP isn't annoying me that much. I wanted to teach my kid how to entertain herself and be polite on a plane. Yes it would have been easier to hand her an iPad and a pair of headphones and then I could relax for the flight. But as with a lot of parenting approaches I felt that in the longterm I (and everyone) would benefit more if my kid actually developed some skills for dealing with boredom and being stuck in your seat for extended periods.

But yes the goal was quiet in-seat entertainment that didn't bother other passengers. I did occasionally read to her but in a quiet voice -- I was not reciting picture books for the entire plane. We mostly did drawing and coloring or stuff like plus plus blocks that can easily be done in your seat. She also came to know and like the rhythm of the flight so she would look forward to the drink cart coming around and either getting a snack on the plane or opening one we'd brought. I wanted her to learn to interact appropriately with the flight attendants (answer their questions when asked and know how to ask for something simple). It was a lot of work for me but I view it as important skill building.

And yes now it pays off and I don't have to do much for my kid when we travel. She will often watch 30-90 minutes of a show or movie on an iPad or seat-back screen but she will also read and do other things. To me the important part is that she's self-sufficient and is not complaining to me about being bored nor is she reliant on having a screen in front of her just to function. That's what I worry about with just planting a kid on a screen -- that they will become totally dependent on it and then if something happens where the screen isn't available they will throw a fit.

Anonymous wrote:We have been intentionally low screen in our house and we did a similar thing on planes. The result is that my kid has developed the skills to chat with people and entertain himself without a screen. My rule was that we had to be considerate of others and I never talked and narrated the whole time. I think that is just as annoying as the parents who let their kids on tablets without headphones.

We’ve been doing this since he was a toddler. Things that kept him occupied were window clings, lots of snacks, cheerio necklaces, and quiet toys like Wix sticks. As he got older we did more quiet card games, puzzles, and now in 2nd grade he mostly reads, listens to audio books, writes, and looks through the seat back stuff. Now that he is older he gets to watch TV if the plane has a screen, but most of his time is no screen. He’s done 16+ hour flights this way and fellow passengers have been commenting on how pleasant he is, so it can be done!

But again, my most important rule was not annoying anyone else on the plane. We are in very close quarters for hours.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is partly a cultural problem. Current American culture is pretty child unfriendly. People don't like to interact with a stranger's kid, and expect kids to be quiet and mostly out of sight (just look at responses in this thread). They expect their flights to be quiet and everyone to be self entertained, as opposed to chatting up strangers like yesteryears. We had a recent flight where not a single person or flight attendant even smiled at my young kids. In this environment, screen time is really a must for parents because no one wants to feel your kid's existence.

In other cultures, it could be different. I don't expect strangers to gush over my kids but when we are on flights or places with a lot of Asians (esp older Asian), for example, the adults love to try to interact with my kids. It is just a more child friendly and centered culture, and my kids can pass some time interacting with these adults. I was once on a flight when my son was 5 months old and he basically played peekaboo with an elderly foreign couple for the entire 2 hour flight. It was great for us parents.

American parenting is just exhausting, lonely, full of judgement.

OP here. You are probably right. The prevailing attitude seems to be that children must immediately be put on a screen so they will sit down/shut up and let adults pacify themselves with their own screens. This adult dependency/ addiction is such a terrible example to set - people are claiming they only do it on planes, but I doubt it.

We take long flights to visit family in Europe and Asia annually, during which time we do a mix of screens and non-screen entertainment like cards, travel-size board games, reading, chatting. We are usually in the business class semi-private cubicles so we are not really disturbing anyone, but I wouldn’t see a problem with doing this in economy either when the lights are on. It’s what my parents and siblings and I did when we were young on long-haul international flights.

And a 3 hour domestic flight is not so stressful that you immediately need to stick your kid and yourself on a screen. There’s so many interesting things to observe, even for kids who have been on flights before. The take-off procedure, flight attendants serving drinks and snacks, landing procedure. Heck, I’ve been on hundreds of flights and still enjoy observing and chatting these things. I strongly feel that kids (and adults) who are stuck on screens miss out on observing the world. But maybe they are too sophisticated and jaded to really care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is partly a cultural problem. Current American culture is pretty child unfriendly. People don't like to interact with a stranger's kid, and expect kids to be quiet and mostly out of sight (just look at responses in this thread). They expect their flights to be quiet and everyone to be self entertained, as opposed to chatting up strangers like yesteryears. We had a recent flight where not a single person or flight attendant even smiled at my young kids. In this environment, screen time is really a must for parents because no one wants to feel your kid's existence.

In other cultures, it could be different. I don't expect strangers to gush over my kids but when we are on flights or places with a lot of Asians (esp older Asian), for example, the adults love to try to interact with my kids. It is just a more child friendly and centered culture, and my kids can pass some time interacting with these adults. I was once on a flight when my son was 5 months old and he basically played peekaboo with an elderly foreign couple for the entire 2 hour flight. It was great for us parents.

American parenting is just exhausting, lonely, full of judgement.

OP here. You are probably right. The prevailing attitude seems to be that children must immediately be put on a screen so they will sit down/shut up and let adults pacify themselves with their own screens. This adult dependency/ addiction is such a terrible example to set - people are claiming they only do it on planes, but I doubt it.

We take long flights to visit family in Europe and Asia annually, during which time we do a mix of screens and non-screen entertainment like cards, travel-size board games, reading, chatting. We are usually in the business class semi-private cubicles so we are not really disturbing anyone, but I wouldn’t see a problem with doing this in economy either when the lights are on. It’s what my parents and siblings and I did when we were young on long-haul international flights.

And a 3 hour domestic flight is not so stressful that you immediately need to stick your kid and yourself on a screen. There’s so many interesting things to observe, even for kids who have been on flights before. The take-off procedure, flight attendants serving drinks and snacks, landing procedure. Heck, I’ve been on hundreds of flights and still enjoy observing and chatting these things. I strongly feel that kids (and adults) who are stuck on screens miss out on observing the world. But maybe they are too sophisticated and jaded to really care.

Really? My kids do not enjoy this.

Because perfect mom has toddlers. Anyone over the age of 4 does not enjoy this at all

Karma. Just wait.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is partly a cultural problem. Current American culture is pretty child unfriendly. People don't like to interact with a stranger's kid, and expect kids to be quiet and mostly out of sight (just look at responses in this thread). They expect their flights to be quiet and everyone to be self entertained, as opposed to chatting up strangers like yesteryears. We had a recent flight where not a single person or flight attendant even smiled at my young kids. In this environment, screen time is really a must for parents because no one wants to feel your kid's existence.

In other cultures, it could be different. I don't expect strangers to gush over my kids but when we are on flights or places with a lot of Asians (esp older Asian), for example, the adults love to try to interact with my kids. It is just a more child friendly and centered culture, and my kids can pass some time interacting with these adults. I was once on a flight when my son was 5 months old and he basically played peekaboo with an elderly foreign couple for the entire 2 hour flight. It was great for us parents.

American parenting is just exhausting, lonely, full of judgement.

OP here. You are probably right. The prevailing attitude seems to be that children must immediately be put on a screen so they will sit down/shut up and let adults pacify themselves with their own screens. This adult dependency/ addiction is such a terrible example to set - people are claiming they only do it on planes, but I doubt it.

We take long flights to visit family in Europe and Asia annually, during which time we do a mix of screens and non-screen entertainment like cards, travel-size board games, reading, chatting. We are usually in the business class semi-private cubicles so we are not really disturbing anyone, but I wouldn’t see a problem with doing this in economy either when the lights are on. It’s what my parents and siblings and I did when we were young on long-haul international flights.

And a 3 hour domestic flight is not so stressful that you immediately need to stick your kid and yourself on a screen. There’s so many interesting things to observe, even for kids who have been on flights before. The take-off procedure, flight attendants serving drinks and snacks, landing procedure. Heck, I’ve been on hundreds of flights and still enjoy observing and chatting these things. I strongly feel that kids (and adults) who are stuck on screens miss out on observing the world. But maybe they are too sophisticated and jaded to really care.

I want to know why you need to constantly like praise yourself for making a different parenting choice than other people. It screams insecurity.

Also the humblebrag about business class. Oy vey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is partly a cultural problem. Current American culture is pretty child unfriendly. People don't like to interact with a stranger's kid, and expect kids to be quiet and mostly out of sight (just look at responses in this thread). They expect their flights to be quiet and everyone to be self entertained, as opposed to chatting up strangers like yesteryears. We had a recent flight where not a single person or flight attendant even smiled at my young kids. In this environment, screen time is really a must for parents because no one wants to feel your kid's existence.

In other cultures, it could be different. I don't expect strangers to gush over my kids but when we are on flights or places with a lot of Asians (esp older Asian), for example, the adults love to try to interact with my kids. It is just a more child friendly and centered culture, and my kids can pass some time interacting with these adults. I was once on a flight when my son was 5 months old and he basically played peekaboo with an elderly foreign couple for the entire 2 hour flight. It was great for us parents.

American parenting is just exhausting, lonely, full of judgement.

OP here. You are probably right. The prevailing attitude seems to be that children must immediately be put on a screen so they will sit down/shut up and let adults pacify themselves with their own screens. This adult dependency/ addiction is such a terrible example to set - people are claiming they only do it on planes, but I doubt it.

We take long flights to visit family in Europe and Asia annually, during which time we do a mix of screens and non-screen entertainment like cards, travel-size board games, reading, chatting. We are usually in the business class semi-private cubicles so we are not really disturbing anyone, but I wouldn’t see a problem with doing this in economy either when the lights are on. It’s what my parents and siblings and I did when we were young on long-haul international flights.

And a 3 hour domestic flight is not so stressful that you immediately need to stick your kid and yourself on a screen. There’s so many interesting things to observe, even for kids who have been on flights before. The take-off procedure, flight attendants serving drinks and snacks, landing procedure. Heck, I’ve been on hundreds of flights and still enjoy observing and chatting these things. I strongly feel that kids (and adults) who are stuck on screens miss out on observing the world. But maybe they are too sophisticated and jaded to really care.

I want to know why you need to constantly like praise yourself for making a different parenting choice than other people. It screams insecurity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, what do all these anti-American self-righteous rants have to do with OP being a smug, judgmental b!@tch re: people using screens on airplanes?

Because we are in a very sterile and child unfriendly culture, so outside of a few safe spaces, there is very little room for children to be children without being labeled as disruptive and annoying. So parents need screens to pacify, to basically drug their kids to fit in our sterile society.

And this is coming from someone who just let their young kids watch a tablet for a whole 6 hour flight.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, what do all these anti-American self-righteous rants have to do with OP being a smug, judgmental b!@tch re: people using screens on airplanes?

Because we are in a very sterile and child unfriendly culture, so outside of a few safe spaces, there is very little room for children to be children without being labeled as disruptive and annoying. So parents need screens to pacify, to basically drug their kids to fit in our sterile society.

And this is coming from someone who just let their young kids watch a tablet for a whole 6 hour flight.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, what do all these anti-American self-righteous rants have to do with OP being a smug, judgmental b!@tch re: people using screens on airplanes?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is partly a cultural problem. Current American culture is pretty child unfriendly. People don't like to interact with a stranger's kid, and expect kids to be quiet and mostly out of sight (just look at responses in this thread). They expect their flights to be quiet and everyone to be self entertained, as opposed to chatting up strangers like yesteryears. We had a recent flight where not a single person or flight attendant even smiled at my young kids. In this environment, screen time is really a must for parents because no one wants to feel your kid's existence.

In other cultures, it could be different. I don't expect strangers to gush over my kids but when we are on flights or places with a lot of Asians (esp older Asian), for example, the adults love to try to interact with my kids. It is just a more child friendly and centered culture, and my kids can pass some time interacting with these adults. I was once on a flight when my son was 5 months old and he basically played peekaboo with an elderly foreign couple for the entire 2 hour flight. It was great for us parents.

American parenting is just exhausting, lonely, full of judgement.

OP here. You are probably right. The prevailing attitude seems to be that children must immediately be put on a screen so they will sit down/shut up and let adults pacify themselves with their own screens. This adult dependency/ addiction is such a terrible example to set - people are claiming they only do it on planes, but I doubt it.

We take long flights to visit family in Europe and Asia annually, during which time we do a mix of screens and non-screen entertainment like cards, travel-size board games, reading, chatting. We are usually in the business class semi-private cubicles so we are not really disturbing anyone, but I wouldn’t see a problem with doing this in economy either when the lights are on. It’s what my parents and siblings and I did when we were young on long-haul international flights.

And a 3 hour domestic flight is not so stressful that you immediately need to stick your kid and yourself on a screen. There’s so many interesting things to observe, even for kids who have been on flights before. The take-off procedure, flight attendants serving drinks and snacks, landing procedure. Heck, I’ve been on hundreds of flights and still enjoy observing and chatting these things. I strongly feel that kids (and adults) who are stuck on screens miss out on observing the world. But maybe they are too sophisticated and jaded to really care.

I want to know why you need to constantly like praise yourself for making a different parenting choice than other people. It screams insecurity.

So, I actually don’t think I deserve any praise… I think engaging your kids, chatting with them, observing the world together, showing them there’s a life outside of screens is the bare minimum duty for a decent well-educated parent. I don’t expect a pat on the back for feeding them three meals a day either!

But then I see all the other parents who can’t even be bothered, who stick their kids on screens so they can stick themselves on screens and tune out the world, and it feels like a Twilight zone. Hence the title of my post. I don’t actually think I’m the best parent ever… but I am surprised to see so many duds!

The poster who brought up American culture as a contributing factor has a very valid point though.