Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When kids are little and not at school, no judgement. After kids are in school, I think k there choices to not work and make their own money are keeping us in the 1950s and I resent them for it.

People who can afford not to work today are nothing at all like the women prohibited or discouraged from working in the 1950s, and one woman's choice in 2024 to do something other than earn money as someone's employee has zero impact on you and your choices. So how exactly is that woman "keeping us in the 1950s"? What do you actually resent?

You live in a bubble or with your head in the sand if you think there are not women being held back by men to make them dependent on him so they have no say and no options.

and your head is in the sand if you think there are no sah women who are sah of their own desire and volition and who are married to partners who happily provide and appreciate her contributions.

I didn't say that unicorns don't exist, they do, it's just not the norm and acting like all women have choice and are only home because they have a loving supportive husband who will not divorce them, abuse them, cheat on them, become an alcoholic, become disabled, or die and even if those things happen will have millions of $ to let them live forever never needing to work or open a go fund me page... you are categorically wrong.

I've watched it happen, over and over and over.

honestly, this. say it louder. financial stability can disappear in a heartbeat, even if you think it will never happen with you. even if they don't leave you, the sahm almost always gets treated in a slightly dependent, slightly disempowered way. optionality is always more diminished, relative to the working spouse. and it may not be enough to create a "real" problem (though I consider not having optionality a real problem)... until it does.

I understand that you want this to be true, and that it’s what you tell yourself. But it just isn’t.

+1 Not my experience or that of any of the women I know. I'm sure it happens though. Even women who work can be treated as dependent and disempowered by ar$ehole, controlling spouses, and for many of them divorce tends to go very poorly after years of emotional abuse. (I'm not sure what PP means by optionality in this context; perhaps a different word was intended.)

Optionality was intended. I don't care if you have the best husband in the world. The legal framework for divorce and alimony has changed, and most people don't realize it. You don't have optionality if you can't leave for financial instability or even uncertainty. I actually have a very supportive, non-controlling husband. Life can go sideways, though, and the structures that used to be there aren't anymore. Have options.

Anonymous wrote:I only judge them when they have school aged kids (aka 5+ free hours per day 5 days a week) and they have plenty of time to cook/clean/rest, etc but they complain endlessly about how exhausted they are. Then I roll my eyes.

Sahp with young kids at home. I get it. It’s tiring.

Sahp with school aged kids who have a balanced productive life and don’t whine to working parents how hard their life is with the 25-30 free hours a week we don’t have…nope, you are annoying.

I have 3 kids at 3 different schools and I guess I technically have 25 hours of childfree time. I volunteer at all three of my kids’ school. I run all the errands I used to run after work or on weekends during the week so I am freed up in the afternoons and weekends. Between working out, volunteering, errands, laundry, cooking and cleaning, those 25 hours turns into like 5-10 hours of free time. There are so many snow days, sick days, doctor appointments, dentist appointments, teacher work days, breaks and summers. You don’t have as much free time as you would think.

Anonymous wrote:I only judge them when they have school aged kids (aka 5+ free hours per day 5 days a week) and they have plenty of time to cook/clean/rest, etc but they complain endlessly about how exhausted they are. Then I roll my eyes.

Sahp with young kids at home. I get it. It’s tiring.

Sahp with school aged kids who have a balanced productive life and don’t whine to working parents how hard their life is with the 25-30 free hours a week we don’t have…nope, you are annoying.

Life is not a race. If a WOHM life is hard and exhausting, then I as a SAHM do not win if my life is slightly less exhausting. Nope. I have always outsourced domestic chores as a SAHM and as a WOHM.

And I do admit that my life as a SAHM is less stressful on a day to day basis. I have time and bandwidth to try and mitigate bigger stresses better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them! Hope it works out.

This. But if it were my daughter I would be privately disappointed after spending so much money on sending her to college and then to not work professionally. I could have saved that money in my retirement instead and retired earlier. I do believe that the world needs more women in the workforce, especially in leadership roles and science, to change the status quo for all women.

Life happens. She could have gotten all that education and had an accident or other disability that forced her out of the workplace. The education is formative and beneficial regardless of what you do with it in the years to come.

As for other women in the workforce - only if that’s what they choose to do. It’s all about choices and freedom. You don’t owe other women a career.

But we do. and that kind of thinking is why/how women keep holding other women back. it's the war of which SAHM has it better, WOHM stepping on other women to get ahead instead of helping others achieve.

You dont need a college education to stay home. Save your parents the money and do your part to marry well.

Why are you so worried about saving her parent's money and her marrying well? They all seems to be doing well and clearly don't need to equate education to a pay check.

Anonymous wrote:I already responded, but actually, what do you mean by “just wives and mothers”? Like they literally don’t do anything else? Or are you including people who volunteer, study, and have other skills but you just mean that they don’t earn active income?

I think that is part of the trouble with this whole thread. (Other than the needless judgment.)

It's clear that a lot of posters have different ideas that they're railing against (staying at home for more than the infant/toddler years, staying at home without financial security)....

I already responded, but actually, what do you mean by “just wives and mothers”? Like they literally don’t do anything else? Or are you including people who volunteer, study, and have other skills but you just mean that they don’t earn active income?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with it except in two scenarios, both of which I have experienced:

1) Calling yourself CEO of Smith Household on social media, Linkedin or in person
2) Telling moms with childcare you stay home because you don't want someone else raising your children.

I currently stay at home but didn't always and could not agree with you more on #2. It is so offensive.

How so? As a parent, you are responsible for choosing who takes care of your kid 24 hours of a day. Why is it offensive to choose to stay home to be the primary caregiver? Why is it offensive to not want to hand your children over to a stranger for the majority of their waking hours?

Different poster but if you don't understand why it's offensive to tell a working mom that she isn't raising her own kids, I don't know what to tell you. Especially given that at least some of these women would love to stay home but can't swing it financially.

I think that like me, there are things they value more highly than acquiring more dollars or status.

I think that they are kindred spirits who see the good in work that modern society has been brainwashed to deride as worthless because it was traditionally the woman’s realm.

I think it’s lovely that they are focusing on providing themselves and their families with a warm, safe space to grow, thrive, retreat, and that it’s such a gift to be able to fully and wholeheartedly enjoy the small comforts, joys and pleasures that life has to offer.

Of course, bad values exist everywhere. But the stereotyping is so off-base, it’s puzzling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with it except in two scenarios, both of which I have experienced:

1) Calling yourself CEO of Smith Household on social media, Linkedin or in person
2) Telling moms with childcare you stay home because you don't want someone else raising your children.

I currently stay at home but didn't always and could not agree with you more on #2. It is so offensive.

How so? As a parent, you are responsible for choosing who takes care of your kid 24 hours of a day. Why is it offensive to choose to stay home to be the primary caregiver? Why is it offensive to not want to hand your children over to a stranger for the majority of their waking hours?

There's nothing offensive about choosing to stay home to be the primary caregiver. I do that now. I also respect that some people are not comfortable with daycare, etc. But when you tell someone else who does use childcare that you don't want someone else raising your children, you are implying that they have allowed someone else to raise theirs. That's hurtful, especially for parents who may not have any option but to work. Personally I worked part time, my oldest was in childcare for 24 hours a week. I object to the suggestion that anyone other than me and her dad were raising her. Caring for her, of course. It takes a village, but no one else was her mom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends HOW they do it. My mother was a SAHM and our house was always dirty and she was always laying on the couch in her nightgown watching soaps and talk shows when I came home. It wasn't some super clean house with cookies fresh from the oven after school. She never made me breakfast. She never decorated the house for any holidays. She often "forgot" to take anything out to defrost for dinner and we scrambled to pull together a meal.

So someone like that, I don't feel good. A friend of mine is a SAHM and she gets dressed each morning when her kids do, makes them breakfast, makes their lunches with them, keeps up the house, is always arranging play dates, does holiday decor, makes homemade treats for her kids to pass out to their classes for their birthdays, invites people over spontaneously, etc. She's a great SAHM. She treats it like a full time job.

I do all that and I work, so am I a superhuman (yes, yes we are).

Curious to know what your hobbies and interests outside of all the above are. Not saying this is you, but I wouldn’t consider a person well-rounded without them.

I currently work outside of the home but I was also a SAHM for 5 years. Basically, I'm happiest when I work outside of the home.

Making myself happy leads to an overall happier household. Those two things are most important, IMO.

When another woman tells me she's a fulltime SAHM, I think nothing about it. It just means that it works best for their family.

The only thing that bugs me re: moms is when they have email addresses like RyansMomma@gmail.com or Mom2BraxtonAndJaxon@gmail.com. Just make your email address some combination of your first and last name, please.

Sorry I posted wrong ⬆️ You get what I mean.

I only judge them when they have school aged kids (aka 5+ free hours per day 5 days a week) and they have plenty of time to cook/clean/rest, etc but they complain endlessly about how exhausted they are. Then I roll my eyes.

Sahp with young kids at home. I get it. It’s tiring.

Sahp with school aged kids who have a balanced productive life and don’t whine to working parents how hard their life is with the 25-30 free hours a week we don’t have…nope, you are annoying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them! Hope it works out.

This. But if it were my daughter I would be privately disappointed after spending so much money on sending her to college and then to not work professionally. I could have saved that money in my retirement instead and retired earlier. I do believe that the world needs more women in the workforce, especially in leadership roles and science, to change the status quo for all women.

Life happens. She could have gotten all that education and had an accident or other disability that forced her out of the workplace. The education is formative and beneficial regardless of what you do with it in the years to come.

As for other women in the workforce - only if that’s what they choose to do. It’s all about choices and freedom. You don’t owe other women a career.

But we do. and that kind of thinking is why/how women keep holding other women back. it's the war of which SAHM has it better, WOHM stepping on other women to get ahead instead of helping others achieve.

You dont need a college education to stay home. Save your parents the money and do your part to marry well.

You don't need a college education to work. Save yourself the time and money.

I disagree. Parents are the first teachers of their children. A college educated parent will be able to help with Math, Science, ELA and Social Sciences to their children at home. They will be able to understand the educational needs of their children better than anyone, and create and find out enrichment experiences and career opportunities better than a non-educated parent. I do not mean just an ordinary high school graduate person. I mean a parent who has undergone rigorous college education and has attained a high degree of expertise in core subjects.

Apart from the comfort and security a child gets when they are at home with their parents, there also is a need in them to have high quality intellectual interaction with their parents otherwise there is no difference in that person and a low educated, low wage, unskilled care provider.

If I cannot teach them Math or Science at home, if I cannot find and create opportunities for their You might say that schools will teach the children, but we know how pathetic is the quality of education in USA. Also, many children have suffered loss of knowledge and skills after COVID for a number of reasons. So, for the well being and progress of the family, you need well educated parents who have the time and inclination to help and mentor their children.

Besides, do you actually think that a high value, high earning man would want to marry a woman who is not equally well educated and qualified? Even if she chooses to be a SAHM?

Educate a man, educate one person. Educate a woman, educate a whole family.

Anonymous wrote:I do what makes me happy and I'm happy for any other woman who gets to do what makes her happy, whether that is staying at home or having a career.

The only people who get worked up about this topic are those who are insecure with their own choice (or lack of choice, as the case may be).

Exactly. Hopefully most people can look back on their lives after raising their children and feel good about their choice.