Anonymous
09/28/2023 15:49
Subject: Re:Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
"I do agree that EF challenges or ADHD do NOT preclude someone from having a customer-facing job. Heck, even autistic people can have those jobs. But, just wanted to clarify that ADHD/EF difficulties can absolutely manifest with social concerns. The presentation would be different than autism, but they can (and very often do) exist. here's a great article that breaks it down: https://chadd.org/for-adults/relationships-social-skills/"
The thing is that SOME people with ADHD have social skill problems. But having social skill problems is NOT required for someone to be diagnosed as having it. In fact, most people with ADHD do not have any problems in this regard.
None of the several ADHD people in my extended family have social skills problems. If anything, this is their strong suit and it helps them get away with things they screw up. And they have really high intelligence, which helps them get by in school or at work. They also aren't a hot mess when it comes to body cleanliness or dressing and grooming appropriately. They may need reminders to get their biannual teeth cleaning scheduled, but they brush their teeth every day before leaving the house because they don't want to have bad breath. And they probably can't remember where they left that syllabus. But I wish people would stop blaming every lack of life skills on ADHD.
The thing is that SOME people with ADHD have social skill problems. But having social skill problems is NOT required for someone to be diagnosed as having it. In fact, most people with ADHD do not have any problems in this regard.
None of the several ADHD people in my extended family have social skills problems. If anything, this is their strong suit and it helps them get away with things they screw up. And they have really high intelligence, which helps them get by in school or at work. They also aren't a hot mess when it comes to body cleanliness or dressing and grooming appropriately. They may need reminders to get their biannual teeth cleaning scheduled, but they brush their teeth every day before leaving the house because they don't want to have bad breath. And they probably can't remember where they left that syllabus. But I wish people would stop blaming every lack of life skills on ADHD.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 15:10
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
Oh FFS stop using their disabilities like a crutch. The professor is right and if your poor addled ADHD kids you have probably hovered over and made excuses for and bulldozed a path for over the years can’t meet basic expectations, you failed them.
dp.. obviously, people with ADHD have a harder time, but seriously, you cannot keep using this crutch into the workplace. Your boss won't care that you miss deadlines, and your coworkers won't care if you have adhd when you smell so badly no one wants to be in the conference room with you.
I often wonder what the plan is for all these SNs college grads. Do you steer them into becoming a CPA or actuary or computer programmer, etc. where they perhaps don't have to interact much with clients/customers? I mean the descriptions seem to indicate they have real problems functioning in the world.
Please tell me you're not being serious?
You are so ignorant and uniformed.
People with ADHD don't have a problem interacting or socializing with others -- you're thinking of Autism.
While kids with ADHD do have trouble picking up on social cues when they're younger, they usually grow out of that by the time they're beginning high school.
Just because someone has challenges with executive functioning skills, doesn't mean they can't have a career that's forward facing with clients... that's absolutely ridiculous.
I do agree that EF challenges or ADHD do NOT preclude someone from having a customer-facing job. Heck, even autistic people can have those jobs. But, just wanted to clarify that ADHD/EF difficulties can absolutely manifest with social concerns. The presentation would be different than autism, but they can (and very often do) exist. here's a great article that breaks it down: https://chadd.org/for-adults/relationships-social-skills/
Anonymous
09/28/2023 14:33
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
Oh FFS stop using their disabilities like a crutch. The professor is right and if your poor addled ADHD kids you have probably hovered over and made excuses for and bulldozed a path for over the years can’t meet basic expectations, you failed them.
dp.. obviously, people with ADHD have a harder time, but seriously, you cannot keep using this crutch into the workplace. Your boss won't care that you miss deadlines, and your coworkers won't care if you have adhd when you smell so badly no one wants to be in the conference room with you.
I often wonder what the plan is for all these SNs college grads. Do you steer them into becoming a CPA or actuary or computer programmer, etc. where they perhaps don't have to interact much with clients/customers? I mean the descriptions seem to indicate they have real problems functioning in the world.
Please tell me you're not being serious?
You are so ignorant and uniformed.
People with ADHD don't have a problem interacting or socializing with others -- you're thinking of Autism.
While kids with ADHD do have trouble picking up on social cues when they're younger, they usually grow out of that by the time they're beginning high school.
Just because someone has challenges with executive functioning skills, doesn't mean they can't have a career that's forward facing with clients... that's absolutely ridiculous.
So for maybe us lay people...what the hell is ADHD and why are people saying it is such a problem in college? From your description, you grow out of it by HS.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 13:10
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
+1
But minus ASD
The prof isn't complaining because they have to suffer your kid. They are letting you know that all the money you spend on their education isn't worth it if they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. Wait a year, go to community college, let your ADHD/ASD kids get another year of executive function development/parenting if you really think they can't take notes, shower etc. in college. They are going to needlessly wreck their reputation.
NP here. I thought college admissions was more competitive than ever before. This generation comes in with more AP classes than ever, club sport and extracurriculars that surpass what most of the last generation did. If colleges have their pick of applicants, why are these kids with self-management and communication problems getting in?
Selective colleges are more competitive than ever. Less selective colleges are not. But regardless, some kids with these issues get in because their UMC parents often carried them through HS with lots of supports and didn't adequately think through how they would handle living independently. They made getting into college the primary goal so kids didn't ever have to deal with failure. The exclusive emphasis on academics and college application fodder also made some of the basics like chores, working an after-school job where kids used to learn these things go by the wayside. Social media + pandemic may have cost some f2f social skills. It can be hard for an admissions team to discern these gaps. Note, as many profs/others have said, it's usually not the SN kids who are the biggest issues, because profs get notices from the disability office about that and the students are taught to self-advocate/learn strategies. It's the kids who have never failed because they never really did things on their own who often are clueless in college and think their behavior is just fine. My response to these specific parents' post was really -- if you really don't think your kid with a disability is ready to handle these kinds of challenges in college, wait and support them until they are. One more year can do a lot for kids with executive function disorders and community college or a gap year that focused on building work habits/social skills might make their college experience more valuable.
Psychologist here and I absolutely agree!
Anonymous
09/28/2023 13:06
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
I have only read a handful of posts but want to chime in.
I am a college professor in the humanities. I have taught at a big research institution and at an SLAC. I rarely have any issue with kids with special needs. Maybe sometimes I am assuming a personality trait and it's really something related to a special need. That may very well have happened. But I don't recall being bothered by any student from whom I had received accommodation requests and the like. There are all sorts of interesting people with unusual interests in academia. I love talking to people with great passions, am very comfortable with all kinds of personality, and take my role as a teacher/mentor very seriously.
I'll go farther and say that the disorganized kids, the ones who are chronically late and forget deadlines and then also happen to get sick on the day of the exam, may be a bit frustrating at times (and often require extra effort and time on my part) but tend to elicit more sympathy in me than anything else.
It's the confident and super entitled kids that I find least endearing.
I am a college professor in the humanities. I have taught at a big research institution and at an SLAC. I rarely have any issue with kids with special needs. Maybe sometimes I am assuming a personality trait and it's really something related to a special need. That may very well have happened. But I don't recall being bothered by any student from whom I had received accommodation requests and the like. There are all sorts of interesting people with unusual interests in academia. I love talking to people with great passions, am very comfortable with all kinds of personality, and take my role as a teacher/mentor very seriously.
I'll go farther and say that the disorganized kids, the ones who are chronically late and forget deadlines and then also happen to get sick on the day of the exam, may be a bit frustrating at times (and often require extra effort and time on my part) but tend to elicit more sympathy in me than anything else.
It's the confident and super entitled kids that I find least endearing.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 13:05
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
I have a late-20s coworker with horrible body odor. Probably not cultural, possibly medical, I have no idea why and I'll never say anything. They've been there for several years now; yes, sometimes it's unpleasant to, for ex., share a rental car with them, but it has no effect on their work product (which is great).
Given the vast number of possible explanations, it seems cruel and discriminatory and even disrespectful of THEM to write them off because they smell bad. Just as what someone is wearing shouldn't be to blame for certain violent crimes, what someone smells like (or wears, or the "tone" in which they email a question) also has no direct relation to their academic work product.
No one is asking professors to *teach* good hygiene and email etiquette. Model it, sure, but beyond that, just give people some grace and focus on what they are actually there to learn.
Given the vast number of possible explanations, it seems cruel and discriminatory and even disrespectful of THEM to write them off because they smell bad. Just as what someone is wearing shouldn't be to blame for certain violent crimes, what someone smells like (or wears, or the "tone" in which they email a question) also has no direct relation to their academic work product.
No one is asking professors to *teach* good hygiene and email etiquette. Model it, sure, but beyond that, just give people some grace and focus on what they are actually there to learn.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 12:51
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1558579983022338048?lang=en
A Brief History of "Kids Today are Too Soft"
seems relevant
A Brief History of "Kids Today are Too Soft"
seems relevant
Anonymous
09/28/2023 12:05
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
+1
But minus ASD
The prof isn't complaining because they have to suffer your kid. They are letting you know that all the money you spend on their education isn't worth it if they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. Wait a year, go to community college, let your ADHD/ASD kids get another year of executive function development/parenting if you really think they can't take notes, shower etc. in college. They are going to needlessly wreck their reputation.
NP here. I thought college admissions was more competitive than ever before. This generation comes in with more AP classes than ever, club sport and extracurriculars that surpass what most of the last generation did. If colleges have their pick of applicants, why are these kids with self-management and communication problems getting in?
Parents provide the crutch when the kids are in k-12. In college, parents aren't there to provide the crutch.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 12:01
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
+1
But minus ASD
The prof isn't complaining because they have to suffer your kid. They are letting you know that all the money you spend on their education isn't worth it if they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. Wait a year, go to community college, let your ADHD/ASD kids get another year of executive function development/parenting if you really think they can't take notes, shower etc. in college. They are going to needlessly wreck their reputation.
NP here. I thought college admissions was more competitive than ever before. This generation comes in with more AP classes than ever, club sport and extracurriculars that surpass what most of the last generation did. If colleges have their pick of applicants, why are these kids with self-management and communication problems getting in?
Selective colleges are more competitive than ever. Less selective colleges are not. But regardless, some kids with these issues get in because their UMC parents often carried them through HS with lots of supports and didn't adequately think through how they would handle living independently. They made getting into college the primary goal so kids didn't ever have to deal with failure. The exclusive emphasis on academics and college application fodder also made some of the basics like chores, working an after-school job where kids used to learn these things go by the wayside. Social media + pandemic may have cost some f2f social skills. It can be hard for an admissions team to discern these gaps. Note, as many profs/others have said, it's usually not the SN kids who are the biggest issues, because profs get notices from the disability office about that and the students are taught to self-advocate/learn strategies. It's the kids who have never failed because they never really did things on their own who often are clueless in college and think their behavior is just fine. My response to these specific parents' post was really -- if you really don't think your kid with a disability is ready to handle these kinds of challenges in college, wait and support them until they are. One more year can do a lot for kids with executive function disorders and community college or a gap year that focused on building work habits/social skills might make their college experience more valuable.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 11:56
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
+1
But minus ASD
The prof isn't complaining because they have to suffer your kid. They are letting you know that all the money you spend on their education isn't worth it if they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. Wait a year, go to community college, let your ADHD/ASD kids get another year of executive function development/parenting if you really think they can't take notes, shower etc. in college. They are going to needlessly wreck their reputation.
NP here. I thought college admissions was more competitive than ever before. This generation comes in with more AP classes than ever, club sport and extracurriculars that surpass what most of the last generation did. If colleges have their pick of applicants, why are these kids with self-management and communication problems getting in?
College admissions have gotten harder due to a number of factors having nothing whatsoever to do with student quality. They are increasingly TO, it is easier and cheaper to apply to a lot of schools so there are far more applicants, high schools have relaxed standards because of Covid and many haven’t gone back, etc. But students are as unprepared as they’ve ever been and it is getting worse.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 11:47
Subject: Re:Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:These issues also come from middle school/high school policies that are too accommodating. Direct some of that energy to those schools and the school boards.
God forbid parents do anything.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 11:38
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
+1
But minus ASD
The prof isn't complaining because they have to suffer your kid. They are letting you know that all the money you spend on their education isn't worth it if they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. Wait a year, go to community college, let your ADHD/ASD kids get another year of executive function development/parenting if you really think they can't take notes, shower etc. in college. They are going to needlessly wreck their reputation.
NP here. I thought college admissions was more competitive than ever before. This generation comes in with more AP classes than ever, club sport and extracurriculars that surpass what most of the last generation did. If colleges have their pick of applicants, why are these kids with self-management and communication problems getting in?
Anonymous
09/28/2023 10:53
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
+1
But minus ASD
The prof isn't complaining because they have to suffer your kid. They are letting you know that all the money you spend on their education isn't worth it if they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. Wait a year, go to community college, let your ADHD/ASD kids get another year of executive function development/parenting if you really think they can't take notes, shower etc. in college. They are going to needlessly wreck their reputation.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 07:04
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
It’s not just College. These kids come into the work world and just have no clue about how to function in the real world. They want all the privileges without paying their dues and so many have poor work ethics. Coming in late, leaving early etc. I hire a lot of people and about 50% talk a good game but flame out pretty quickly.
Anonymous
09/28/2023 04:28
Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,
I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.
He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.
He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.
And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.
Best regards,
Mom.
Oh FFS stop using their disabilities like a crutch. The professor is right and if your poor addled ADHD kids you have probably hovered over and made excuses for and bulldozed a path for over the years can’t meet basic expectations, you failed them.
dp.. obviously, people with ADHD have a harder time, but seriously, you cannot keep using this crutch into the workplace. Your boss won't care that you miss deadlines, and your coworkers won't care if you have adhd when you smell so badly no one wants to be in the conference room with you.
I often wonder what the plan is for all these SNs college grads. Do you steer them into becoming a CPA or actuary or computer programmer, etc. where they perhaps don't have to interact much with clients/customers? I mean the descriptions seem to indicate they have real problems functioning in the world.
Please tell me you're not being serious?
You are so ignorant and uniformed.
People with ADHD don't have a problem interacting or socializing with others -- you're thinking of Autism.
While kids with ADHD do have trouble picking up on social cues when they're younger, they usually grow out of that by the time they're beginning high school.
Just because someone has challenges with executive functioning skills, doesn't mean they can't have a career that's forward facing with clients... that's absolutely ridiculous.