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Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

What type of rules? Is this an extension of the bedroom roles?

I wouldn’t call it an extension to the bedroom, but similar dynamics. We have standards that we expect the other to respect. The rules are more known than spoken. There are certain actions or phrases that carry weight and indicate what ibis expected, required, needed. We have an understanding, if there is an item I need, buy it. If there is something I want, let him know and he will get it. No question asked either way. And he makes sure I always get what I want.

There are little things that others would probably be offended by, but I don’t mind and many of them I did before. Nails done every two weeks, certain height of heels, certain clothes, wax (just the bikini line as necessary), when we are alone we refer to each other as my wife/my husband accordingly, we have a couple set times for specific intimate activities each week.

Anonymous wrote:For the most part, women act like children when it suits them but want to be treated as an equal adult when it doesn't.

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Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

NP. OP, interesting topic, a few derailments, but that is also topical and expected on DCUM.

My belief, as a woman, is that the quoted above is what many women want, but struggle with for various reasons.

You think many women want to be submissive? Defer to husbands on most major decisions?

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Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

What type of rules? Is this an extension of the bedroom roles?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

NP. OP, interesting topic, a few derailments, but that is also topical and expected on DCUM.

My belief, as a woman, is that the quoted above is what many women want, but struggle with for various reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

NP. OP, interesting topic, a few derailments, but that is also topical and expected on DCUM.

My belief, as a woman, is that the quoted above is what many women want, but struggle with for various reasons.

Anonymous wrote:
Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

There is something attractive about this. I think it’s the idea of structure and even ritual. But, in the social and political structures we exist in it places an outsized risk to the submitting partner. What if circumstances change and you can no longer provide the emotional or physical labor that your spouse needs? What about your needs, what if they change?

Ideally, yes. Obviously. But trust can be fragile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think there are any definitive truths. But there are loads of influences like hormones and social constructs that create predictable behavioral patterns.
L

Science is pretty definite.

Definite about what exactly?

Truths we can follow. Not everything is subjective at least without throwing out basically everything we know about ourselves and the earth.