Anonymous
Post 11/01/2022 00:41     Subject: Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
“The Court takes the Law School at its word that it would like nothing better than to find a race-neutral admissions formula and will terminate its use of racial preferences as soon as practicable. The Court expects that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the interest approved today.”
From the case 20 years ago.
Anonymous
Post 11/01/2022 00:32     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.


"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?


Somethings happening with the SAT that there are that many perfect scores. There used to be that many scoring over 700.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 22:41     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:Upthread it was commented that Asians are admitted at 3x their percentage of the population so there is presumably no discrimination. If this were true, Asians would be quite a bit higher as their objective scores are much higher than other races. Also, SAT scores are not that great of a gauge for many top unis. These kids that are admitted due to merit are presenting AIME or USAMO type scores. Anecdotally, it seems whites have a tougher time with admissions due to the participation of white kids in athletics. An unhooked, non-legacy white male has a very tough time at top unis given that whites are more likely to be legacies and/or athletes in rowing, squash, football, etc.


Asians are overrepresented on elite college campuses. They aren't being discriminated against just because they are Asian.

In general they do well on standardized tests. That's just one aspect of holistic admissions and really isn't " merit" if you come out of a culture of test mills and incessant test prep ( country wide tests happen across Asian countries). The top schools just don't want one dimensional bookworms. The SFFA looked at what Asians scored lowest in and used that as a claim of discrimination. Lower courts didn't find any discrimination.

The only difference is that there's now a conservative Court that will overturn established precedent. The facts haven't changed. Asians are being used under the "model minority" myth by whites to keep URM numbers low. Millions of dollars of dark money from conservative groups are funding this effort.

Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 22:25     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.


"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?


GPA is school dependent. School A and school B may have completed different standards.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 22:05     Subject: Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:I am a white person with both white kids and asian kids. I do not think my asian kids raised in the same house should have to score 300 points higher on the SAT for the same shot at admissions to my alma mater (Harvard). That is pure racism and I will never vote democrat again after seeing how they support this.


I could not agree with you more. This whole thing has gotten out of control and ridiculous.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 21:58     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.


"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?


But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?


Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.


Not really though.. They are supposedly a "non profit" and get away with paying huge taxes that i end up subsidizing in return for.. what?.. permanent exclusion of my progeny from that school because of their race?

They also pay zero taxes on their buildings to the state/county. A substantial amount of federal dollars also go to fund their research. Let them pay all their taxes like a normal 'private institution' would, stop taking my $$ to fund their research (I don't care about their 'world class' researchers, most of whom will move to a public Uni if that's where the dollars end up) and discriminate away at their heart's content. [/





You are missing the point. Holistic admissions, by definition, includes more than test scores. They will never just take the highest scorers. That is not how it works or has ever worked. They want a well rounded class (in many ways, not just race).
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 21:55     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.


"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?


But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?


Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.


It matters because Harvard admitted students with very low scores in the name of R


They could admit ALL people with low scores! They have no obligation to take the highest scores and there are many reasons why they might not choose the highest scorers.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 21:38     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We’ll let’s see.

We have white, Black, and Hispanic Supreme Court justices debating whether Asians are actually discriminated against and if affirmative action that benefits Blacks and Hispanics could be problematic.

Where is that Asian Supreme Court justice’s voice in the matter…. Oh wait.



I think Asian is now promoted to White.


Well I think Black is now promoted to White.

Oh and Hispanic is now promoted to White… oh wait.

Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 21:32     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Upthread it was commented that Asians are admitted at 3x their percentage of the population so there is presumably no discrimination. If this were true, Asians would be quite a bit higher as their objective scores are much higher than other races. Also, SAT scores are not that great of a gauge for many top unis. These kids that are admitted due to merit are presenting AIME or USAMO type scores. Anecdotally, it seems whites have a tougher time with admissions due to the participation of white kids in athletics. An unhooked, non-legacy white male has a very tough time at top unis given that whites are more likely to be legacies and/or athletes in rowing, squash, football, etc.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 21:23     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Fighting about degrees of discrimination isn't helpful. Unfortunately, all racial minority groups have clearly suffered unacceptable discrimination in the US. Regardless of how people feel about affirmative action, we should agree on that.


Yes. This is just what the white supremacists who brought and paid for this suit want. They want infighting among various non-white groups. This suit is not about Asian Americans. They are pawns being used by white folks who have been trying for years to end affirmative action. Let’s be real about this.


Personally, as an Asian, I like being a pawn to white supremacists. I love internalizing and displaying my Uncle Tom profile. Enough reality for you?
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 20:38     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.


"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?


But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?


Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.


Not really though.. They are supposedly a "non profit" and get away with paying huge taxes that i end up subsidizing in return for.. what?.. permanent exclusion of my progeny from that school because of their race?

They also pay zero taxes on their buildings to the state/county. A substantial amount of federal dollars also go to fund their research. Let them pay all their taxes like a normal 'private institution' would, stop taking my $$ to fund their research (I don't care about their 'world class' researchers, most of whom will move to a public Uni if that's where the dollars end up) and discriminate away at their heart's content.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 20:26     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:5-4 vote, anyone’s guess on the result.

You are wrong. One Justice self recused.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 20:22     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
5-4 vote, anyone’s guess on the result.
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 20:21     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.


"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?


But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?


Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.


It matters because Harvard admitted students with very low scores in the name of R
Anonymous
Post 10/31/2022 20:17     Subject: Re:Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.


"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?


But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?


Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.