Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Expanding high schools during renovations makes perfect sense, logistically and economically.
Better to be prepared with surplus space in as many high schools as possible, than to be caugh in a situation with too many students and not place to logically put them other than a bunch of trailers.
Rezoning should be the last resort.
I hope fcps continues to expand any high school they renovate.
If FCPS were more nimble, they'd expand schools where there is a current or projected for additional space.
There's an inconsistency between saying every high school should be expanded when renovated and that rezoning should be a last resort. Money has been spent adding space at schools with flat or declining enrollments, and then boundaries have to be changed to get the kids at other. overcrowded schools out of trailers. They may save money by adding space at a school that is already being renovated, but then they end up with additional transportation costs and inconvenienced families for many years to come.
I disagree.
You can't look at enrollment today to justify whether or not to expand a school..
It is way more responsible to expand high school capacity during full renovations, whenever practical.
Better to be prepared than to be caught unprepared.
Then be prepared to admit that what you really favor is boundary changes, just ones that don't involve your own kids. Because that's what will happen to other kids due to such an inflexible approach.
Anonymous wrote:Expanding high schools during renovations makes perfect sense, logistically and economically.
Better to be prepared with surplus space in as many high schools as possible, than to be caugh in a situation with too many students and not place to logically put them other than a bunch of trailers.
Rezoning should be the last resort.
I hope fcps continues to expand any high school they renovate.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does everyone see how hard WS posters are fighting the suggestions that any WS kids ever get zoned to Lewis? Any of the other surrounding schools would be fine.
That is what happens when you concentrate all of the poor and ESL students.
FCPS needs a reckoning on this.
There's no getting around the fact that there is going to be a concentration of "poor and ESL students", as you say, in a particular area. It's the place they can afford to live!
We live in walking distance of West Springfield so I have no fears personally about shifting boundaries, but in terms of community and neighborhood, definitely Lewis and Edison should be your discussion, not Lewis and WS. I too rolled my eyes a bit when Daventry shifted to WSHS from Lewis, but they are, in terms of how our neighborhoods are laid out, definitely a West Springfield community.
My kids went to Rolling Valley which is also a split feeder. About 10% of our students go to Lewis (the rest to WSHS). Every single family I know personally in that Lewis group moved, placed into a specialty program (like stem at Edison), had divorced parents and chose the other parent's high school (like South County), or chose private high school. They should focus on improving Lewis rather than trying to move kids there who have the resources to just choose somewhere else for high school. It won't help enrollment at Lewis at all to shift a few neighborhoods from West Springfield there.
90-10 split feeders are just a bad idea generally. In general, the 10% ends up less invested in the public school system. This isn't just a Lewis issue.
I agree.
Unless the schools are very similar with overlapping communities.
Sangster is a good example. Most of the achools goes to Lake Braddock. The neighborhood Sangster sits in goes to West Springfield.
Thos two high schools are very interchangeable, because there is a lot of community overlap from things like little league, swim team, scouts, church, milktary families, etc. There is so much overlap. The WSHS and LBSS communitjes are intertwined. No one in either community would blink an eye over getting rezoned back or forth between either of those schools. They are a shared community, and the two schools are fairly equivalent.
Lewis is different in that it very separate community wise. These is no overlap anywhere. There is even a physical boundary of the mixing bowl.
I personally believe all split feeders should be eliminated wherever possible, certainly those that are less than 10%.
If rezoning were to happen, it should be Sangster to Lake Braddock, and the elimination of the Rolling Valley split feeder, with all of those houses zoned for WSHS.
Saratoga or Lewis should not even be part of the discussion of any rezoning of WSHS.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Expanding high schools during renovations makes perfect sense, logistically and economically.
Better to be prepared with surplus space in as many high schools as possible, than to be caugh in a situation with too many students and not place to logically put them other than a bunch of trailers.
Rezoning should be the last resort.
I hope fcps continues to expand any high school they renovate.
If FCPS were more nimble, they'd expand schools where there is a current or projected for additional space.
There's an inconsistency between saying every high school should be expanded when renovated and that rezoning should be a last resort. Money has been spent adding space at schools with flat or declining enrollments, and then boundaries have to be changed to get the kids at other. overcrowded schools out of trailers. They may save money by adding space at a school that is already being renovated, but then they end up with additional transportation costs and inconvenienced families for many years to come.
I disagree.
You can't look at enrollment today to justify whether or not to expand a school..
It is way more responsible to expand high school capacity during full renovations, whenever practical.
Better to be prepared than to be caught unprepared.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Expanding high schools during renovations makes perfect sense, logistically and economically.
Better to be prepared with surplus space in as many high schools as possible, than to be caugh in a situation with too many students and not place to logically put them other than a bunch of trailers.
Rezoning should be the last resort.
I hope fcps continues to expand any high school they renovate.
If FCPS were more nimble, they'd expand schools where there is a current or projected for additional space.
There's an inconsistency between saying every high school should be expanded when renovated and that rezoning should be a last resort. Money has been spent adding space at schools with flat or declining enrollments, and then boundaries have to be changed to get the kids at other. overcrowded schools out of trailers. They may save money by adding space at a school that is already being renovated, but then they end up with additional transportation costs and inconvenienced families for many years to come.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Expanding high schools during renovations makes perfect sense, logistically and economically.
Better to be prepared with surplus space in as many high schools as possible, than to be caugh in a situation with too many students and not place to logically put them other than a bunch of trailers.
Rezoning should be the last resort.
I hope fcps continues to expand any high school they renovate.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting. Edison HS is as “overenrolled” as WSHS. It’s closer to Lewis, it’s on the same side of the mixing bowl as Lewis, but the Lewis crowd is only obsessively fixated on West Springfield.
It seems more the converse: the West Springfield crowd is obsessively fixated on trying to exclude WSHS from any conversation relating to Lewis.
The focus should be on why Lewis is severely under-capacity and what changes are needed to offer Lewis students opportunities comparable to those available to students at other schools. If West Springfield is part of the solution, so be it; if it is not, that's OK, too.
I would argue the focus needs to be around what determines “capacity” and that perhaps these “underenrolled” schools are actually properly sized and the rest are more over enrolled than believed.
That’s assuming education is our actual concern and not just daycare and student warehousing.
If you believe some schools are more over-enrolled than currently acknowledged, it makes the case for expanding some schools and adjusting boundaries where appropriate at others even stronger.
I do believe that because having worked in schools for 20 years I believe “capacity” is often an arbitrary figure that upper administration determines because it’s less expensive to run fewer, bigger schools. This is why people saying “run schools like a business” always cracks me up- they already do that!
I don’t believe that expansion of schools is the solution. More, smaller schools is the solution but that costs more and, well, we can have that because we have to create a Chief Experience Officer and hire 8 bazillion more people to work at Gatehouse and Willow Oaks.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does everyone see how hard WS posters are fighting the suggestions that any WS kids ever get zoned to Lewis? Any of the other surrounding schools would be fine.
That is what happens when you concentrate all of the poor and ESL students.
FCPS needs a reckoning on this.
There's no getting around the fact that there is going to be a concentration of "poor and ESL students", as you say, in a particular area. It's the place they can afford to live!
We live in walking distance of West Springfield so I have no fears personally about shifting boundaries, but in terms of community and neighborhood, definitely Lewis and Edison should be your discussion, not Lewis and WS. I too rolled my eyes a bit when Daventry shifted to WSHS from Lewis, but they are, in terms of how our neighborhoods are laid out, definitely a West Springfield community.
My kids went to Rolling Valley which is also a split feeder. About 10% of our students go to Lewis (the rest to WSHS). Every single family I know personally in that Lewis group moved, placed into a specialty program (like stem at Edison), had divorced parents and chose the other parent's high school (like South County), or chose private high school. They should focus on improving Lewis rather than trying to move kids there who have the resources to just choose somewhere else for high school. It won't help enrollment at Lewis at all to shift a few neighborhoods from West Springfield there.
So it’s OK to move students from Lewis to West Springfield, but not in the opposite direction? Even though it contributes to West Springfield having over 800 more kids than Lewis (about twice as many more kids than Edison)?
We all know that real change will happen at Lewis only when they move families into the school who have the time, skills, and incentives to speak up. But you all just don’t want to do the work. If other kids suffer, too bad.
The Daventry rezoning went through because there were fewer than 20 high school students from Daventry attending then Lee (Lewis). It has been a while, but I believe the total number was in the low teens.
However, after the rezoning, high school students started coming out of the woodwork from Daventry. Kids who were homeschooling high school. Kids who had switched to Cafholic schools. Military families with high schoolers who would not buy or rent in a house zoned for Lewis. Kids who had pupil placed to other schools for languages or special programs.
The amount of high school students living in Daventry increased exponentially overnight, once FCPS rezoned the neighborhood to WSHS. If I were to guess based off knowing the community, it went from around a 10-20 students who went to Lewis, to easily over 100 the following year after rezoning.
Don't try to kid yourself that rezoning Daventry back to Lewis will bring 100s of WSHS kids to that school.
It would be the same 10-20 students, with everyone else doing what they did before.
Even if it were 100-150 daventry kids, 25-35 kids per grade is not going to transform that school, especially since the kids will be invested more in the West Springfield community and friends theh grew up with.
To get that 500 figure you want, you would need to rezone neighborhoods walkable to WSHS, and neighborhoods deep into the West Springfiled neighborhoods.
Maybe that was the goal of Laura Jane Cohen and the Board of supervisors when they created a back door deal to slice up West Springfield's magisterial districs. She had a lot of support from those neigborhoods but stabbed them in the back. I am sure she would do it again in a heartbeat.
WS has over 2500 kids and Edison 2250. Move 300 from WS and 100 from Edison, replace IB with AP, and provide transportation from Lewis to Edison for rising seniors who want to complete the IB diploma program.
That should get Lewis to over 2000, assuming some attrition and placements to Edison. It would demonstrate a real commitment to putting Lewis on a stronger footing, unlike just changing the school's name.
It's real easy playing armchair redistricting tycoon and ignoring politics, history, budget, logistics, and reality, isn't it?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting. Edison HS is as “overenrolled” as WSHS. It’s closer to Lewis, it’s on the same side of the mixing bowl as Lewis, but the Lewis crowd is only obsessively fixated on West Springfield.
It seems more the converse: the West Springfield crowd is obsessively fixated on trying to exclude WSHS from any conversation relating to Lewis.
The focus should be on why Lewis is severely under-capacity and what changes are needed to offer Lewis students opportunities comparable to those available to students at other schools. If West Springfield is part of the solution, so be it; if it is not, that's OK, too.
I would argue the focus needs to be around what determines “capacity” and that perhaps these “underenrolled” schools are actually properly sized and the rest are more over enrolled than believed.
That’s assuming education is our actual concern and not just daycare and student warehousing.
If you believe some schools are more over-enrolled than currently acknowledged, it makes the case for expanding some schools and adjusting boundaries where appropriate at others even stronger.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does everyone see how hard WS posters are fighting the suggestions that any WS kids ever get zoned to Lewis? Any of the other surrounding schools would be fine.
That is what happens when you concentrate all of the poor and ESL students.
FCPS needs a reckoning on this.
There's no getting around the fact that there is going to be a concentration of "poor and ESL students", as you say, in a particular area. It's the place they can afford to live!
We live in walking distance of West Springfield so I have no fears personally about shifting boundaries, but in terms of community and neighborhood, definitely Lewis and Edison should be your discussion, not Lewis and WS. I too rolled my eyes a bit when Daventry shifted to WSHS from Lewis, but they are, in terms of how our neighborhoods are laid out, definitely a West Springfield community.
My kids went to Rolling Valley which is also a split feeder. About 10% of our students go to Lewis (the rest to WSHS). Every single family I know personally in that Lewis group moved, placed into a specialty program (like stem at Edison), had divorced parents and chose the other parent's high school (like South County), or chose private high school. They should focus on improving Lewis rather than trying to move kids there who have the resources to just choose somewhere else for high school. It won't help enrollment at Lewis at all to shift a few neighborhoods from West Springfield there.
So it’s OK to move students from Lewis to West Springfield, but not in the opposite direction? Even though it contributes to West Springfield having over 800 more kids than Lewis (about twice as many more kids than Edison)?
We all know that real change will happen at Lewis only when they move families into the school who have the time, skills, and incentives to speak up. But you all just don’t want to do the work. If other kids suffer, too bad.
The Daventry rezoning went through because there were fewer than 20 high school students from Daventry attending then Lee (Lewis). It has been a while, but I believe the total number was in the low teens.
However, after the rezoning, high school students started coming out of the woodwork from Daventry. Kids who were homeschooling high school. Kids who had switched to Cafholic schools. Military families with high schoolers who would not buy or rent in a house zoned for Lewis. Kids who had pupil placed to other schools for languages or special programs.
The amount of high school students living in Daventry increased exponentially overnight, once FCPS rezoned the neighborhood to WSHS. If I were to guess based off knowing the community, it went from around a 10-20 students who went to Lewis, to easily over 100 the following year after rezoning.
Don't try to kid yourself that rezoning Daventry back to Lewis will bring 100s of WSHS kids to that school.
It would be the same 10-20 students, with everyone else doing what they did before.
Even if it were 100-150 daventry kids, 25-35 kids per grade is not going to transform that school, especially since the kids will be invested more in the West Springfield community and friends theh grew up with.
To get that 500 figure you want, you would need to rezone neighborhoods walkable to WSHS, and neighborhoods deep into the West Springfiled neighborhoods.
Maybe that was the goal of Laura Jane Cohen and the Board of supervisors when they created a back door deal to slice up West Springfield's magisterial districs. She had a lot of support from those neigborhoods but stabbed them in the back. I am sure she would do it again in a heartbeat.
Laura Jane Cohen is on the School Board. She had no vote in adjusting the magisterial districts, which was determined by the Board of Supervisors.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does everyone see how hard WS posters are fighting the suggestions that any WS kids ever get zoned to Lewis? Any of the other surrounding schools would be fine.
That is what happens when you concentrate all of the poor and ESL students.
FCPS needs a reckoning on this.
There's no getting around the fact that there is going to be a concentration of "poor and ESL students", as you say, in a particular area. It's the place they can afford to live!
We live in walking distance of West Springfield so I have no fears personally about shifting boundaries, but in terms of community and neighborhood, definitely Lewis and Edison should be your discussion, not Lewis and WS. I too rolled my eyes a bit when Daventry shifted to WSHS from Lewis, but they are, in terms of how our neighborhoods are laid out, definitely a West Springfield community.
My kids went to Rolling Valley which is also a split feeder. About 10% of our students go to Lewis (the rest to WSHS). Every single family I know personally in that Lewis group moved, placed into a specialty program (like stem at Edison), had divorced parents and chose the other parent's high school (like South County), or chose private high school. They should focus on improving Lewis rather than trying to move kids there who have the resources to just choose somewhere else for high school. It won't help enrollment at Lewis at all to shift a few neighborhoods from West Springfield there.
So it’s OK to move students from Lewis to West Springfield, but not in the opposite direction? Even though it contributes to West Springfield having over 800 more kids than Lewis (about twice as many more kids than Edison)?
We all know that real change will happen at Lewis only when they move families into the school who have the time, skills, and incentives to speak up. But you all just don’t want to do the work. If other kids suffer, too bad.
The Daventry rezoning went through because there were fewer than 20 high school students from Daventry attending then Lee (Lewis). It has been a while, but I believe the total number was in the low teens.
However, after the rezoning, high school students started coming out of the woodwork from Daventry. Kids who were homeschooling high school. Kids who had switched to Cafholic schools. Military families with high schoolers who would not buy or rent in a house zoned for Lewis. Kids who had pupil placed to other schools for languages or special programs.
The amount of high school students living in Daventry increased exponentially overnight, once FCPS rezoned the neighborhood to WSHS. If I were to guess based off knowing the community, it went from around a 10-20 students who went to Lewis, to easily over 100 the following year after rezoning.
Don't try to kid yourself that rezoning Daventry back to Lewis will bring 100s of WSHS kids to that school.
It would be the same 10-20 students, with everyone else doing what they did before.
Even if it were 100-150 daventry kids, 25-35 kids per grade is not going to transform that school, especially since the kids will be invested more in the West Springfield community and friends theh grew up with.
To get that 500 figure you want, you would need to rezone neighborhoods walkable to WSHS, and neighborhoods deep into the West Springfiled neighborhoods.
Maybe that was the goal of Laura Jane Cohen and the Board of supervisors when they created a back door deal to slice up West Springfield's magisterial districs. She had a lot of support from those neigborhoods but stabbed them in the back. I am sure she would do it again in a heartbeat.
WS has over 2500 kids and Edison 2250. Move 300 from WS and 100 from Edison, replace IB with AP, and provide transportation from Lewis to Edison for rising seniors who want to complete the IB diploma program.
That should get Lewis to over 2000, assuming some attrition and placements to Edison. It would demonstrate a real commitment to putting Lewis on a stronger footing, unlike just changing the school's name.