Anonymous wrote:Colleges are out for the summer. FCPS should try to reach out to the new teachers they are hiring for next year to see if the new teachers want to start a little early. Bet they could find a recent college grad who would love some extra cash before the summer break.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a good conversation about what is expected of teachers.

We have people expecting teachers, despite low pay and contract employment, to stay in a job until the end of the year and only look for new employment during a 2 month window of time in the year. Is that an expectation you set for yourself?

The pandemic showed us that people don't consider teachers to be professionals. Instead, they consider them doormats. They second-guess everything teachers do and say, and the governor has created tip sheets so that people can tattle on them. They blame them for the pandemic, and blame them for making policy decisions that are way above their pay grade (virtual learning) They consider teachers to be glorified babysitters who should martyr themselves, their own health, and the health of their families (they are parents, too) so that other parents can go to work or work out at the gym.

If you are going to treat teachers this way, expect them to leave. And if they do, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Do not set expectations of them that equal those of doctors, as someone in this thread has.

Here's the thing. I'm an attorney who works in state government. My annual pay is lower that a teacher with the same years of experience, and I don't get all of the breaks that teachers get during the school year. My professional responsibilities to my clients do not change based on how much money I make. I'm either a professional or I'm not. I might have months of leave, but I am not free to use it at times when it would injury my clients. None of this is to say that some teachers don't have good reasons for absences or quitting, but that doesn't mean some don't take advantage or that their inability to fulfill their job duties doesn't have a detrimental impact on students. Which is it? Are teachers professionals who deserve to be paid much more? Or are they workers whose only obligation is to fulfill the terms of their contracts as best they can, taking every hour of leave available to them, leaving mid-year if necessary, while at the same time working in a system that punishes kids for their late work and missed assignments in order to teach students about the "real world"?

What I'm hearing is that you would be easier to replace than a teacher right now, and that the marketplace values your skills and training less. Is that true?

No, what I'm saying is that standards of professionalism don't depend on pay or the ability to replace someone. Professionals act professionally. If you want teachers to be held to the same standard as hourly fast-food workers, it's you who are devaluing the professional.

So you would be harder to replace than a teacher, and the marketplace does value your skills and training more, as reflected in your salary and benefits?

Depending on where in state government PP works, finding competent replacements is exceedingly hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sucks, and I'm sorry. There must be something really difficult going on in that teacher's life right to make such a decision.

She probably got fed up with the a-hole parents.

Honestly, this is probably accurate.

I wouldn't blame her.

Not this late in the year. It’s unprofessional and rude. Anyone can work another 6 weeks. That’s a really $hitty thing to do to her students. Just finish the damn year and move on.

No one here has any idea what is happening with this teacher in her personal life.

They shouldn't quit. people were not quitting their jobs like this 3 years ago. Biden needs to banned this and do something to stop people from quitting. MY DD English teacher quit last month, she said quit and ain't coming back. It's a sad day in America. November can't come soon enough, I will be voting and something will be done to stop the labor shortage.

You can't force labor. People aren't slaves. That is a route to have zero teachers available to teach in the fall.

The ones who quit midyear won't be working this fall anyway. Maybe you need to rethink your route.

Yes, but forcing people into contracts they can't quit deters the already dwindling supply of teachers to not take on a new contract.

No, it doesn't. All teacher contracts require a 9 month commitment. There's nothing onerous or bad about that. It doesn't deter anyone.

There is not a clause in it that forces you not to quit. In fact, it's them telling you they are committing to you for 9 months and generally teachers are generally professionally agreeing to stay then also. But they can't do more than that like PP wants--forcing people not to quit--without creating a deterrent. If someone is at a breaking point, or needs to move, or wants out of the profession they can quit when they want. It sucks for parents, other teachers, their students, but instilling draconian 'no quit' policies would likely not survive a legal test and make a profession that is struggling to attract people at the worst rate since it's been measured in even worse shape.

You can't force people not to quit. But you can also acknowledge that quitting in the middle of the year is really bad for parents, other teachers, and students. It should not be the norm for a salaried skilled professional and should only happen under dire circumstances. You wonder why kids are detached and anxious. I guess they should recognize that the adults in their lives are only there while it works for them and should feel terrible if they are disappointed when these adults leave without any warning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sucks, and I'm sorry. There must be something really difficult going on in that teacher's life right to make such a decision.

She probably got fed up with the a-hole parents.

Honestly, this is probably accurate.

I wouldn't blame her.

Not this late in the year. It’s unprofessional and rude. Anyone can work another 6 weeks. That’s a really $hitty thing to do to her students. Just finish the damn year and move on.

No one here has any idea what is happening with this teacher in her personal life.

They shouldn't quit. people were not quitting their jobs like this 3 years ago. Biden needs to banned this and do something to stop people from quitting. MY DD English teacher quit last month, she said quit and ain't coming back. It's a sad day in America. November can't come soon enough, I will be voting and something will be done to stop the labor shortage.

You can't force labor. People aren't slaves. That is a route to have zero teachers available to teach in the fall.

The ones who quit midyear won't be working this fall anyway. Maybe you need to rethink your route.

Yes, but forcing people into contracts they can't quit deters the already dwindling supply of teachers to not take on a new contract.

No, it doesn't. All teacher contracts require a 9 month commitment. There's nothing onerous or bad about that. It doesn't deter anyone.

There is not a clause in it that forces you not to quit. In fact, it's them telling you they are committing to you for 9 months and generally teachers are generally professionally agreeing to stay then also. But they can't do more than that like PP wants--forcing people not to quit--without creating a deterrent. If someone is at a breaking point, or needs to move, or wants out of the profession they can quit when they want. It sucks for parents, other teachers, their students, but instilling draconian 'no quit' policies would likely not survive a legal test and make a profession that is struggling to attract people at the worst rate since it's been measured in even worse shape.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a good conversation about what is expected of teachers.

We have people expecting teachers, despite low pay and contract employment, to stay in a job until the end of the year and only look for new employment during a 2 month window of time in the year. Is that an expectation you set for yourself?

The pandemic showed us that people don't consider teachers to be professionals. Instead, they consider them doormats. They second-guess everything teachers do and say, and the governor has created tip sheets so that people can tattle on them. They blame them for the pandemic, and blame them for making policy decisions that are way above their pay grade (virtual learning) They consider teachers to be glorified babysitters who should martyr themselves, their own health, and the health of their families (they are parents, too) so that other parents can go to work or work out at the gym.

If you are going to treat teachers this way, expect them to leave. And if they do, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Do not set expectations of them that equal those of doctors, as someone in this thread has.

Here's the thing. I'm an attorney who works in state government. My annual pay is lower that a teacher with the same years of experience, and I don't get all of the breaks that teachers get during the school year. My professional responsibilities to my clients do not change based on how much money I make. I'm either a professional or I'm not. I might have months of leave, but I am not free to use it at times when it would injury my clients. None of this is to say that some teachers don't have good reasons for absences or quitting, but that doesn't mean some don't take advantage or that their inability to fulfill their job duties doesn't have a detrimental impact on students. Which is it? Are teachers professionals who deserve to be paid much more? Or are they workers whose only obligation is to fulfill the terms of their contracts as best they can, taking every hour of leave available to them, leaving mid-year if necessary, while at the same time working in a system that punishes kids for their late work and missed assignments in order to teach students about the "real world"?

What I'm hearing is that you would be easier to replace than a teacher right now, and that the marketplace values your skills and training less. Is that true?

No, what I'm saying is that standards of professionalism don't depend on pay or the ability to replace someone. Professionals act professionally. If you want teachers to be held to the same standard as hourly fast-food workers, it's you who are devaluing the professional.

So you would be harder to replace than a teacher, and the marketplace does value your skills and training more, as reflected in your salary and benefits?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sucks, and I'm sorry. There must be something really difficult going on in that teacher's life right to make such a decision.

She probably got fed up with the a-hole parents.

Honestly, this is probably accurate.

I wouldn't blame her.

Not this late in the year. It’s unprofessional and rude. Anyone can work another 6 weeks. That’s a really $hitty thing to do to her students. Just finish the damn year and move on.

No one here has any idea what is happening with this teacher in her personal life.

They shouldn't quit. people were not quitting their jobs like this 3 years ago. Biden needs to banned this and do something to stop people from quitting. MY DD English teacher quit last month, she said quit and ain't coming back. It's a sad day in America. November can't come soon enough, I will be voting and something will be done to stop the labor shortage.

You can't force labor. People aren't slaves. That is a route to have zero teachers available to teach in the fall.

The ones who quit midyear won't be working this fall anyway. Maybe you need to rethink your route.

Yes, but forcing people into contracts they can't quit deters the already dwindling supply of teachers to not take on a new contract.

No, it doesn't. All teacher contracts require a 9 month commitment. There's nothing onerous or bad about that. It doesn't deter anyone.

There is not a clause in it that forces you not to quit. In fact, it's them telling you they are committing to you for 9 months and generally teachers are generally professionally agreeing to stay then also. But they can't do more than that like PP wants--forcing people not to quit--without creating a deterrent. If someone is at a breaking point, or needs to move, or wants out of the profession they can quit when they want. It sucks for parents, other teachers, their students, but instilling draconian 'no quit' policies would likely not survive a legal test and make a profession that is struggling to attract people at the worst rate since it's been measured in even worse shape.

If you mean that contracts should have some sort of indentured servitude provision in them, of course they don't. But teacher contracts are 9 months and teachers who quit midyear are blacklisted. All parties know and understand this. This isn't onerous.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. FCPS should seek to hire and retain teachers who will quit midyear? Why?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a good conversation about what is expected of teachers.

We have people expecting teachers, despite low pay and contract employment, to stay in a job until the end of the year and only look for new employment during a 2 month window of time in the year. Is that an expectation you set for yourself?

The pandemic showed us that people don't consider teachers to be professionals. Instead, they consider them doormats. They second-guess everything teachers do and say, and the governor has created tip sheets so that people can tattle on them. They blame them for the pandemic, and blame them for making policy decisions that are way above their pay grade (virtual learning) They consider teachers to be glorified babysitters who should martyr themselves, their own health, and the health of their families (they are parents, too) so that other parents can go to work or work out at the gym.

If you are going to treat teachers this way, expect them to leave. And if they do, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Do not set expectations of them that equal those of doctors, as someone in this thread has.

Here's the thing. I'm an attorney who works in state government. My annual pay is lower that a teacher with the same years of experience, and I don't get all of the breaks that teachers get during the school year. My professional responsibilities to my clients do not change based on how much money I make. I'm either a professional or I'm not. I might have months of leave, but I am not free to use it at times when it would injury my clients. None of this is to say that some teachers don't have good reasons for absences or quitting, but that doesn't mean some don't take advantage or that their inability to fulfill their job duties doesn't have a detrimental impact on students. Which is it? Are teachers professionals who deserve to be paid much more? Or are they workers whose only obligation is to fulfill the terms of their contracts as best they can, taking every hour of leave available to them, leaving mid-year if necessary, while at the same time working in a system that punishes kids for their late work and missed assignments in order to teach students about the "real world"?

What I'm hearing is that you would be easier to replace than a teacher right now, and that the marketplace values your skills and training less. Is that true?

No, what I'm saying is that standards of professionalism don't depend on pay or the ability to replace someone. Professionals act professionally. If you want teachers to be held to the same standard as hourly fast-food workers, it's you who are devaluing the professional.

So you would be harder to replace than a teacher, and the marketplace does value your skills and training more, as reflected in your salary and benefits?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a good conversation about what is expected of teachers.

We have people expecting teachers, despite low pay and contract employment, to stay in a job until the end of the year and only look for new employment during a 2 month window of time in the year. Is that an expectation you set for yourself?

The pandemic showed us that people don't consider teachers to be professionals. Instead, they consider them doormats. They second-guess everything teachers do and say, and the governor has created tip sheets so that people can tattle on them. They blame them for the pandemic, and blame them for making policy decisions that are way above their pay grade (virtual learning) They consider teachers to be glorified babysitters who should martyr themselves, their own health, and the health of their families (they are parents, too) so that other parents can go to work or work out at the gym.

If you are going to treat teachers this way, expect them to leave. And if they do, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Do not set expectations of them that equal those of doctors, as someone in this thread has.

Here's the thing. I'm an attorney who works in state government. My annual pay is lower that a teacher with the same years of experience, and I don't get all of the breaks that teachers get during the school year. My professional responsibilities to my clients do not change based on how much money I make. I'm either a professional or I'm not. I might have months of leave, but I am not free to use it at times when it would injury my clients. None of this is to say that some teachers don't have good reasons for absences or quitting, but that doesn't mean some don't take advantage or that their inability to fulfill their job duties doesn't have a detrimental impact on students. Which is it? Are teachers professionals who deserve to be paid much more? Or are they workers whose only obligation is to fulfill the terms of their contracts as best they can, taking every hour of leave available to them, leaving mid-year if necessary, while at the same time working in a system that punishes kids for their late work and missed assignments in order to teach students about the "real world"?

What I'm hearing is that you would be easier to replace than a teacher right now, and that the marketplace values your skills and training less. Is that true?

No, what I'm saying is that standards of professionalism don't depend on pay or the ability to replace someone. Professionals act professionally. If you want teachers to be held to the same standard as hourly fast-food workers, it's you who are devaluing the professional.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sucks, and I'm sorry. There must be something really difficult going on in that teacher's life right to make such a decision.

She probably got fed up with the a-hole parents.

Honestly, this is probably accurate.

I wouldn't blame her.

Not this late in the year. It’s unprofessional and rude. Anyone can work another 6 weeks. That’s a really $hitty thing to do to her students. Just finish the damn year and move on.

No one here has any idea what is happening with this teacher in her personal life.

They shouldn't quit. people were not quitting their jobs like this 3 years ago. Biden needs to banned this and do something to stop people from quitting. MY DD English teacher quit last month, she said quit and ain't coming back. It's a sad day in America. November can't come soon enough, I will be voting and something will be done to stop the labor shortage.

You can't force labor. People aren't slaves. That is a route to have zero teachers available to teach in the fall.

The ones who quit midyear won't be working this fall anyway. Maybe you need to rethink your route.

Yes, but forcing people into contracts they can't quit deters the already dwindling supply of teachers to not take on a new contract.

No, it doesn't. All teacher contracts require a 9 month commitment. There's nothing onerous or bad about that. It doesn't deter anyone.

There is not a clause in it that forces you not to quit. In fact, it's them telling you they are committing to you for 9 months and generally teachers are generally professionally agreeing to stay then also. But they can't do more than that like PP wants--forcing people not to quit--without creating a deterrent. If someone is at a breaking point, or needs to move, or wants out of the profession they can quit when they want. It sucks for parents, other teachers, their students, but instilling draconian 'no quit' policies would likely not survive a legal test and make a profession that is struggling to attract people at the worst rate since it's been measured in even worse shape.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a good conversation about what is expected of teachers.

We have people expecting teachers, despite low pay and contract employment, to stay in a job until the end of the year and only look for new employment during a 2 month window of time in the year. Is that an expectation you set for yourself?

The pandemic showed us that people don't consider teachers to be professionals. Instead, they consider them doormats. They second-guess everything teachers do and say, and the governor has created tip sheets so that people can tattle on them. They blame them for the pandemic, and blame them for making policy decisions that are way above their pay grade (virtual learning) They consider teachers to be glorified babysitters who should martyr themselves, their own health, and the health of their families (they are parents, too) so that other parents can go to work or work out at the gym.

If you are going to treat teachers this way, expect them to leave. And if they do, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Do not set expectations of them that equal those of doctors, as someone in this thread has.

Here's the thing. I'm an attorney who works in state government. My annual pay is lower that a teacher with the same years of experience, and I don't get all of the breaks that teachers get during the school year. My professional responsibilities to my clients do not change based on how much money I make. I'm either a professional or I'm not. I might have months of leave, but I am not free to use it at times when it would injury my clients. None of this is to say that some teachers don't have good reasons for absences or quitting, but that doesn't mean some don't take advantage or that their inability to fulfill their job duties doesn't have a detrimental impact on students. Which is it? Are teachers professionals who deserve to be paid much more? Or are they workers whose only obligation is to fulfill the terms of their contracts as best they can, taking every hour of leave available to them, leaving mid-year if necessary, while at the same time working in a system that punishes kids for their late work and missed assignments in order to teach students about the "real world"?

What I'm hearing is that you would be easier to replace than a teacher right now, and that the marketplace values your skills and training less. Is that true?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sucks, and I'm sorry. There must be something really difficult going on in that teacher's life right to make such a decision.

She probably got fed up with the a-hole parents.

Honestly, this is probably accurate.

I wouldn't blame her.

Not this late in the year. It’s unprofessional and rude. Anyone can work another 6 weeks. That’s a really $hitty thing to do to her students. Just finish the damn year and move on.

No one here has any idea what is happening with this teacher in her personal life.

They shouldn't quit. people were not quitting their jobs like this 3 years ago. Biden needs to banned this and do something to stop people from quitting. MY DD English teacher quit last month, she said quit and ain't coming back. It's a sad day in America. November can't come soon enough, I will be voting and something will be done to stop the labor shortage.

You can't force labor. People aren't slaves. That is a route to have zero teachers available to teach in the fall.

The ones who quit midyear won't be working this fall anyway. Maybe you need to rethink your route.

Yes, but forcing people into contracts they can't quit deters the already dwindling supply of teachers to not take on a new contract.

No, it doesn't. All teacher contracts require a 9 month commitment. There's nothing onerous or bad about that. It doesn't deter anyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a good conversation about what is expected of teachers.

We have people expecting teachers, despite low pay and contract employment, to stay in a job until the end of the year and only look for new employment during a 2 month window of time in the year. Is that an expectation you set for yourself?

The pandemic showed us that people don't consider teachers to be professionals. Instead, they consider them doormats. They second-guess everything teachers do and say, and the governor has created tip sheets so that people can tattle on them. They blame them for the pandemic, and blame them for making policy decisions that are way above their pay grade (virtual learning) They consider teachers to be glorified babysitters who should martyr themselves, their own health, and the health of their families (they are parents, too) so that other parents can go to work or work out at the gym.

If you are going to treat teachers this way, expect them to leave. And if they do, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Do not set expectations of them that equal those of doctors, as someone in this thread has.

Here's the thing. I'm an attorney who works in state government. My annual pay is lower that a teacher with the same years of experience, and I don't get all of the breaks that teachers get during the school year. My professional responsibilities to my clients do not change based on how much money I make. I'm either a professional or I'm not. I might have months of leave, but I am not free to use it at times when it would injury my clients. None of this is to say that some teachers don't have good reasons for absences or quitting, but that doesn't mean some don't take advantage or that their inability to fulfill their job duties doesn't have a detrimental impact on students. Which is it? Are teachers professionals who deserve to be paid much more? Or are they workers whose only obligation is to fulfill the terms of their contracts as best they can, taking every hour of leave available to them, leaving mid-year if necessary, while at the same time working in a system that punishes kids for their late work and missed assignments in order to teach students about the "real world"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sucks, and I'm sorry. There must be something really difficult going on in that teacher's life right to make such a decision.

She probably got fed up with the a-hole parents.

Honestly, this is probably accurate.

I wouldn't blame her.

Not this late in the year. It’s unprofessional and rude. Anyone can work another 6 weeks. That’s a really $hitty thing to do to her students. Just finish the damn year and move on.

No one here has any idea what is happening with this teacher in her personal life.

They shouldn't quit. people were not quitting their jobs like this 3 years ago. Biden needs to banned this and do something to stop people from quitting. MY DD English teacher quit last month, she said quit and ain't coming back. It's a sad day in America. November can't come soon enough, I will be voting and something will be done to stop the labor shortage.

You can't force labor. People aren't slaves. That is a route to have zero teachers available to teach in the fall.

The ones who quit midyear won't be working this fall anyway. Maybe you need to rethink your route.

Yes, but forcing people into contracts they can't quit deters the already dwindling supply of teachers to not take on a new contract.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sucks, and I'm sorry. There must be something really difficult going on in that teacher's life right to make such a decision.

She probably got fed up with the a-hole parents.

Honestly, this is probably accurate.

I wouldn't blame her.

Not this late in the year. It’s unprofessional and rude. Anyone can work another 6 weeks. That’s a really $hitty thing to do to her students. Just finish the damn year and move on.

No one here has any idea what is happening with this teacher in her personal life.

They shouldn't quit. people were not quitting their jobs like this 3 years ago. Biden needs to banned this and do something to stop people from quitting. MY DD English teacher quit last month, she said quit and ain't coming back. It's a sad day in America. November can't come soon enough, I will be voting and something will be done to stop the labor shortage.

You can't force labor. People aren't slaves. That is a route to have zero teachers available to teach in the fall.

The ones who quit midyear won't be working this fall anyway. Maybe you need to rethink your route.

Anonymous wrote:Teachers who don't want to teach should quit. Bitter, burnt-out teachers are terrible for children, both academically and emotionally. I'd rather have fewer good teachers than have my child stuck with a dud.