Anonymous wrote:My kid know presidents in order and their numbers and has since age 4. He know countries, flags, most encyclopedic knowledge.He learned all this without trying as he loves this type of knowledge. As a parent, how much he memorizes is annoying. He doesn’t know anything related to sports or pop culture, but this trivia knowledge is a passion.

What he wants in a school…..Latin as he is in Latin 2, orchestra (but not a passion), trivia in a competitive sense. He will want to take as many courses related to biology, ecology, and environmental science as he can. He also love Geology and World History as well as current events. He adores reading and loves discussing books.

TJ Latin is excellent.

He shouldn’t start orchestra unless it’s a passion. Sticking with it for 4 years (which is what colleges want to see) requires at least 2 years of summer school

TJ has Bio and Advanced Bio, like a base school. They also have Geosystems, but you have to wait until you are a senior. They do not have AP ES or much of anything in environmental or ecology. The only real track is neurobio and it’s super competitive.

He’ll only heft one year of Honor World History, instead of a year of Honors and a year of AP in 9 & 10 in the base school

He isn’t going to make the traveling Quiz Bowl team. Maybe senior year if he’s a phenom. Not his first couple of years.

You need to look at the sample schedule. Assuming he drops orchestra and does a couple years of summer school, he’ll get very few electives.

Anonymous wrote:My kid know presidents in order and their numbers and has since age 4. He know countries, flags, most encyclopedic knowledge.He learned all this without trying as he loves this type of knowledge. As a parent, how much he memorizes is annoying. He doesn’t know anything related to sports or pop culture, but this trivia knowledge is a passion.

What he wants in a school…..Latin as he is in Latin 2, orchestra (but not a passion), trivia in a competitive sense. He will want to take as many courses related to biology, ecology, and environmental science as he can. He also love Geology and World History as well as current events. He adores reading and loves discussing books.

Yes. Your kid is the smartest one in FCPS. He’ll get into TJ and graduate #1 in his class, and from there do the joint Harvard-Stanford college program. FCPS has never seen a genius quite like him.

Look, clearly you are determined to send your poor kid to TJ. I hope for his sake he doesn’t get in, because you are about to force him into a situation where he is way, way over his head. The writing alone would crush a kid with dysgraphia. And he doesn’t sound capable of doing the group projects the make up a significant piece of each grade. And, while kids can (and do) drop back, it’s often a huge blow to the ego and your kid becomes “the kid who couldn’t hack TJ” at the base school. As in, i asked my junior DD about he lab partner in physics and discovered he had dropped back from TJ early freshman year. DD didn’t give me an name or any info except: “some kid I was assigned to work with who could t hack TJ.”

Now, she’s. Being a bit snotty, since her sibling is an alum and was told to cut it out. But, there is a kernel of truth. When kids drop back, that’s all most people remember about them— that they dropped back from TJ.

TJ is about more than smart or quick with math. I’m not sure why some people can’t understand that.

I'm the PP who asked about "learning how to work." Thanks for the thoughtful response. Pretty much describes my experience. Where do people "learn how to work"? Places like TJ? I feel like I missed a memo at some point.

I am the exact opposite. I have learning disabilities, all moderate but a long list, and ADHD. ES was so,so,so hard for me. Middle School was a mixed bag, English, History and Social Studies were easy. Math and Science were a disaster. Math and Science were so bad that the school as going to wave math and science requirements for me to graduate. My parents said hell no and insisted I would take Math and Science, I thought they were crazy. We figured out how I tested, I had to verbalize my answers to myself as I wrote them down. I took Algebra, Algebra II, and Geometry. I took Biology, Chemistry, and Anatomy. I took Honors and AP English and History.

Here is the thing, I thought I was stupid. I remember crying in the classroom corner in second grade and telling my cousins I was retarded. My nickname in MS was LD. My parents never let me not do my work. My Mom sat at the table doing homework with me every freaking day. She was as bad at math and science as I was but we sat there and did it. And at some point in time, it clicked. I graduated from high school in the top 10% of my class and went to college. Oh my god was college awesome. I shined. I could take the classes I wanted, not math and science. I was a whiz in the Humanities. we celebrated my C in statistics like it was an A. I found that I loved Geology, it was the history of the planet told by rocks and very cool.

Then I shocked the hell out of everyone and went on to earn my Doctorate. And teach statistics and game theory. Turns out I understood the concepts but just couldn’t solve the problems by hand. Give me a data set and a computer program and I was good to go. I have never been more proud of the 3.5 I earned in my graduate level stats and game theory classes. I taught myself the basics of calculus and matrix algebra.

How did I learn to do hard work? I had no choice. If I wanted to succeed, I had to work. And my parents never let me think I couldn't succeed. When other people dropped out of Grad School because comprehensive exams and the dissertation were a painful grind, I shrugged my shoulders and ground on. I barely passed my comps, but I passed. The dissertation took 3 years but it got done. Plenty of people who were smarter then me and who found school far easier then I did dropped.

My son does not have my learning issues and has not shown obvious signs of ADHD. He is smart as a whip and school is easy for him. We enrolled him in language immersion so that he would have something that he would have to work at in school. We started him in AoPS so that he would have a challenge in math. We applaud his effort scores and not his grades. I have flat out told him if I ever hear that he is telling kids in school that things are too easy he is in deep trouble because there are kids like me that school is not easy for. They don’t need anyone telling them that school is easy. I secretly applaud when he struggles with something because he needs to learn that there is a reward for working through something that is hard. I worry that he is not learning perseverance and that it is ok to struggle because he just has not struggled.

Any way, I learned to work hard otherwise I would have failed. Hell, I failed even though I worked hard. But failures can lead to success if you have the right support and mindset.

My kid know presidents in order and their numbers and has since age 4. He know countries, flags, most encyclopedic knowledge.He learned all this without trying as he loves this type of knowledge. As a parent, how much he memorizes is annoying. He doesn’t know anything related to sports or pop culture, but this trivia knowledge is a passion.

What he wants in a school…..Latin as he is in Latin 2, orchestra (but not a passion), trivia in a competitive sense. He will want to take as many courses related to biology, ecology, and environmental science as he can. He also love Geology and World History as well as current events. He adores reading and loves discussing books.

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Anonymous wrote:Forgot processing speed….that is incredibly fast. His working memory topped out the tests and his processing speed wasn’t far behind. His ADHD brother basically did the opposite of him on all these metrics. That brother is younger and more socially aware and not interested in TJ despite having a better work ethic. He has had to work harder since his memory and processing are weak so he developed those skills. My older son just naturally does well so he has never learned how to work. As someone who never finished my PhD because I never learned how to work, I see benefit from making him learn that lesson before he is in his mid 20s but as the parent who will need to enforce this, I would rather let him glide along as it is easier for me. Twice exceptionality is not fun and I am jealous of those kids that have to work hard and learn to do it early.

I am intrigued by your comment that you "never learned how to work." I have heard a couple folks say this about themselves or others, and I am really curious what it means. Could you elaborate?

Sure. I did well in law school without studying, passed the bar exam without doing a prep course, and using a friend’s prep materials from another year but only looked over them a handful of times. I did fine in my PhD classes, had no problems qualifying past the oral exams, but when it came down to writing a long dissertation, I didn’t know how to organize the materials, and plan out a long project. I had all the data but never got past the literature review.

There were some other factors but those would be what it boils down too.

I have talked to my child and he is leaning towards turning down a spot if he qualifies. He remembered when we lived in another state and he got into an academic magnet for kindergarten. We visited the school and I knew it would be a bad fit. I didn’t know that he remembers visiting (he was 4 still) and that he was very unhappy during his visit at the school. We talked about the daily hours of homework he found acceptable (he cited 3 hours) and I told him I thought it would be more. We also talked about the fact he is excited about scholastic bowl at his current school and it appears TJ doesn’t have this. He is most concerned he cannot tour the school to get a feel for the environment as that really made a difference for the kindergarten experience he remembers. I expect his BFF to get in and his best friend will try to convince him, but his gut instinct is that he won’t be happy there.

TJ has Quizbowl which is much better than the scholastic bowl which is a child’s play. TJ is usually in the top ten nationally for quizbowl.

I did see that. Given the other factors and concerns we have, do you have thoughts about whether this would be enough to outweigh our concerns? I do think trivia is where he will find his tribe.

It wouldn’t. TJ QuizBowl isn’t memorizing trivia or a bunch of kids hanging out and geeking out on trivia. It’s a ton or hard work memorizing facts. Everyone memorize the US Presidents by order, go. It’s often rote memorization. It’s also nearly impossible to make it onto the actual team even as a senior— and certainly not as freshman or sophomore. You have the kids who are literally the best at what they do in the nation filling each role.

If you don’t have a kid who is heading into hardcore science research for Regeneron, etc., TJ extracurriculars are strongest in fine arts (esp. band and drama) and sports (crew is huge). Latin has a huge, very active competition team. MUN and speech and debate are very good, but hardcore and cut throat. Those are the largest, closest knit groups. Also, some of the affinity groups, especially around iNite.

I wouldn’t sell your kid on being one of the 4-5 kids who gets a quizbowl spot. And I wouldn’t suggest it for a kid allergic to working.

Here was my juniors life doing band and drama.

Leave the house at 7:30
Extended school day 8-4
Band/drama 4:30-7:30 (or later) 4 days a week
With carpooling, home around 8:30
Shower and dinner. It’s now 9:30, and he’s starting homework. Works until 2 by sophomore year
Sleeps 2-6:30

Repeat

At least one full day on the weekend at TJ. Sometimes full weekend competitions.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Forgot processing speed….that is incredibly fast. His working memory topped out the tests and his processing speed wasn’t far behind. His ADHD brother basically did the opposite of him on all these metrics. That brother is younger and more socially aware and not interested in TJ despite having a better work ethic. He has had to work harder since his memory and processing are weak so he developed those skills. My older son just naturally does well so he has never learned how to work. As someone who never finished my PhD because I never learned how to work, I see benefit from making him learn that lesson before he is in his mid 20s but as the parent who will need to enforce this, I would rather let him glide along as it is easier for me. Twice exceptionality is not fun and I am jealous of those kids that have to work hard and learn to do it early.

I am intrigued by your comment that you "never learned how to work." I have heard a couple folks say this about themselves or others, and I am really curious what it means. Could you elaborate?

Sure. I did well in law school without studying, passed the bar exam without doing a prep course, and using a friend’s prep materials from another year but only looked over them a handful of times. I did fine in my PhD classes, had no problems qualifying past the oral exams, but when it came down to writing a long dissertation, I didn’t know how to organize the materials, and plan out a long project. I had all the data but never got past the literature review.

There were some other factors but those would be what it boils down too.

I have talked to my child and he is leaning towards turning down a spot if he qualifies. He remembered when we lived in another state and he got into an academic magnet for kindergarten. We visited the school and I knew it would be a bad fit. I didn’t know that he remembers visiting (he was 4 still) and that he was very unhappy during his visit at the school. We talked about the daily hours of homework he found acceptable (he cited 3 hours) and I told him I thought it would be more. We also talked about the fact he is excited about scholastic bowl at his current school and it appears TJ doesn’t have this. He is most concerned he cannot tour the school to get a feel for the environment as that really made a difference for the kindergarten experience he remembers. I expect his BFF to get in and his best friend will try to convince him, but his gut instinct is that he won’t be happy there.

TJ has Quizbowl which is much better than the scholastic bowl which is a child’s play. TJ is usually in the top ten nationally for quizbowl.

I did see that. Given the other factors and concerns we have, do you have thoughts about whether this would be enough to outweigh our concerns? I do think trivia is where he will find his tribe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgot processing speed….that is incredibly fast. His working memory topped out the tests and his processing speed wasn’t far behind. His ADHD brother basically did the opposite of him on all these metrics. That brother is younger and more socially aware and not interested in TJ despite having a better work ethic. He has had to work harder since his memory and processing are weak so he developed those skills. My older son just naturally does well so he has never learned how to work. As someone who never finished my PhD because I never learned how to work, I see benefit from making him learn that lesson before he is in his mid 20s but as the parent who will need to enforce this, I would rather let him glide along as it is easier for me. Twice exceptionality is not fun and I am jealous of those kids that have to work hard and learn to do it early.

I am intrigued by your comment that you "never learned how to work." I have heard a couple folks say this about themselves or others, and I am really curious what it means. Could you elaborate?

Sure. I did well in law school without studying, passed the bar exam without doing a prep course, and using a friend’s prep materials from another year but only looked over them a handful of times. I did fine in my PhD classes, had no problems qualifying past the oral exams, but when it came down to writing a long dissertation, I didn’t know how to organize the materials, and plan out a long project. I had all the data but never got past the literature review.

There were some other factors but those would be what it boils down too.

I have talked to my child and he is leaning towards turning down a spot if he qualifies. He remembered when we lived in another state and he got into an academic magnet for kindergarten. We visited the school and I knew it would be a bad fit. I didn’t know that he remembers visiting (he was 4 still) and that he was very unhappy during his visit at the school. We talked about the daily hours of homework he found acceptable (he cited 3 hours) and I told him I thought it would be more. We also talked about the fact he is excited about scholastic bowl at his current school and it appears TJ doesn’t have this. He is most concerned he cannot tour the school to get a feel for the environment as that really made a difference for the kindergarten experience he remembers. I expect his BFF to get in and his best friend will try to convince him, but his gut instinct is that he won’t be happy there.

TJ has Quizbowl which is much better than the scholastic bowl which is a child’s play. TJ is usually in the top ten nationally for quizbowl.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgot processing speed….that is incredibly fast. His working memory topped out the tests and his processing speed wasn’t far behind. His ADHD brother basically did the opposite of him on all these metrics. That brother is younger and more socially aware and not interested in TJ despite having a better work ethic. He has had to work harder since his memory and processing are weak so he developed those skills. My older son just naturally does well so he has never learned how to work. As someone who never finished my PhD because I never learned how to work, I see benefit from making him learn that lesson before he is in his mid 20s but as the parent who will need to enforce this, I would rather let him glide along as it is easier for me. Twice exceptionality is not fun and I am jealous of those kids that have to work hard and learn to do it early.

I am intrigued by your comment that you "never learned how to work." I have heard a couple folks say this about themselves or others, and I am really curious what it means. Could you elaborate?

Sure. I did well in law school without studying, passed the bar exam without doing a prep course, and using a friend’s prep materials from another year but only looked over them a handful of times. I did fine in my PhD classes, had no problems qualifying past the oral exams, but when it came down to writing a long dissertation, I didn’t know how to organize the materials, and plan out a long project. I had all the data but never got past the literature review.

There were some other factors but those would be what it boils down too.

I have talked to my child and he is leaning towards turning down a spot if he qualifies. He remembered when we lived in another state and he got into an academic magnet for kindergarten. We visited the school and I knew it would be a bad fit. I didn’t know that he remembers visiting (he was 4 still) and that he was very unhappy during his visit at the school. We talked about the daily hours of homework he found acceptable (he cited 3 hours) and I told him I thought it would be more. We also talked about the fact he is excited about scholastic bowl at his current school and it appears TJ doesn’t have this. He is most concerned he cannot tour the school to get a feel for the environment as that really made a difference for the kindergarten experience he remembers. I expect his BFF to get in and his best friend will try to convince him, but his gut instinct is that he won’t be happy there.

I'm the PP who asked about "learning how to work." Thanks for the thoughtful response. Pretty much describes my experience. Where do people "learn how to work"? Places like TJ? I feel like I missed a memo at some point.

I wish I knew the answer. I went to a private college prep school and took both Latin and Ancient Greek which taught me how to memorize, which was very useful.

I wish I learned how to work as not knowing how to do so definitely affected me negatively and seems to be very common among gifted adults. My younger son with slow processing speed has this skills but my older son this post is about doesn’t. My concern is that he won’t learn how to do this. I would think a school like TJ would hone this skill but I am not willing to pay the price of his mental health or happiness.

I think the current issues with admissions, etc shows this area would benefit from another option, maybe something like project based learning?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgot processing speed….that is incredibly fast. His working memory topped out the tests and his processing speed wasn’t far behind. His ADHD brother basically did the opposite of him on all these metrics. That brother is younger and more socially aware and not interested in TJ despite having a better work ethic. He has had to work harder since his memory and processing are weak so he developed those skills. My older son just naturally does well so he has never learned how to work. As someone who never finished my PhD because I never learned how to work, I see benefit from making him learn that lesson before he is in his mid 20s but as the parent who will need to enforce this, I would rather let him glide along as it is easier for me. Twice exceptionality is not fun and I am jealous of those kids that have to work hard and learn to do it early.

I am intrigued by your comment that you "never learned how to work." I have heard a couple folks say this about themselves or others, and I am really curious what it means. Could you elaborate?

Sure. I did well in law school without studying, passed the bar exam without doing a prep course, and using a friend’s prep materials from another year but only looked over them a handful of times. I did fine in my PhD classes, had no problems qualifying past the oral exams, but when it came down to writing a long dissertation, I didn’t know how to organize the materials, and plan out a long project. I had all the data but never got past the literature review.

There were some other factors but those would be what it boils down too.

I have talked to my child and he is leaning towards turning down a spot if he qualifies. He remembered when we lived in another state and he got into an academic magnet for kindergarten. We visited the school and I knew it would be a bad fit. I didn’t know that he remembers visiting (he was 4 still) and that he was very unhappy during his visit at the school. We talked about the daily hours of homework he found acceptable (he cited 3 hours) and I told him I thought it would be more. We also talked about the fact he is excited about scholastic bowl at his current school and it appears TJ doesn’t have this. He is most concerned he cannot tour the school to get a feel for the environment as that really made a difference for the kindergarten experience he remembers. I expect his BFF to get in and his best friend will try to convince him, but his gut instinct is that he won’t be happy there.

I'm the PP who asked about "learning how to work." Thanks for the thoughtful response. Pretty much describes my experience. Where do people "learn how to work"? Places like TJ? I feel like I missed a memo at some point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgot processing speed….that is incredibly fast. His working memory topped out the tests and his processing speed wasn’t far behind. His ADHD brother basically did the opposite of him on all these metrics. That brother is younger and more socially aware and not interested in TJ despite having a better work ethic. He has had to work harder since his memory and processing are weak so he developed those skills. My older son just naturally does well so he has never learned how to work. As someone who never finished my PhD because I never learned how to work, I see benefit from making him learn that lesson before he is in his mid 20s but as the parent who will need to enforce this, I would rather let him glide along as it is easier for me. Twice exceptionality is not fun and I am jealous of those kids that have to work hard and learn to do it early.

I am intrigued by your comment that you "never learned how to work." I have heard a couple folks say this about themselves or others, and I am really curious what it means. Could you elaborate?

Sure. I did well in law school without studying, passed the bar exam without doing a prep course, and using a friend’s prep materials from another year but only looked over them a handful of times. I did fine in my PhD classes, had no problems qualifying past the oral exams, but when it came down to writing a long dissertation, I didn’t know how to organize the materials, and plan out a long project. I had all the data but never got past the literature review.

There were some other factors but those would be what it boils down too.

I have talked to my child and he is leaning towards turning down a spot if he qualifies. He remembered when we lived in another state and he got into an academic magnet for kindergarten. We visited the school and I knew it would be a bad fit. I didn’t know that he remembers visiting (he was 4 still) and that he was very unhappy during his visit at the school. We talked about the daily hours of homework he found acceptable (he cited 3 hours) and I told him I thought it would be more. We also talked about the fact he is excited about scholastic bowl at his current school and it appears TJ doesn’t have this. He is most concerned he cannot tour the school to get a feel for the environment as that really made a difference for the kindergarten experience he remembers. I expect his BFF to get in and his best friend will try to convince him, but his gut instinct is that he won’t be happy there.

Anonymous wrote:Forgot processing speed….that is incredibly fast. His working memory topped out the tests and his processing speed wasn’t far behind. His ADHD brother basically did the opposite of him on all these metrics. That brother is younger and more socially aware and not interested in TJ despite having a better work ethic. He has had to work harder since his memory and processing are weak so he developed those skills. My older son just naturally does well so he has never learned how to work. As someone who never finished my PhD because I never learned how to work, I see benefit from making him learn that lesson before he is in his mid 20s but as the parent who will need to enforce this, I would rather let him glide along as it is easier for me. Twice exceptionality is not fun and I am jealous of those kids that have to work hard and learn to do it early.

I am intrigued by your comment that you "never learned how to work." I have heard a couple folks say this about themselves or others, and I am really curious what it means. Could you elaborate?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and sibling-in-law both attended TJ. Both were successful, went to top colleges, and have high incomes now in super striver professions.

Neither would send their kids to TJ. In fact I spend $$$$ now to keep DCs in privates at my spouse’s insistence (and in some ways to my chagrin). The pressure cooker sucks.

DP. I went to TJ and absolutely hope my children will attend one day.

I went to TJ and really hope that my ES aged DD kids is interested unless there are major reforms. Have you been to the school or interacted with the students in the past 5-10 years? It’s incredibly sad, but it’s only a shadow of the TJHSST I graduated from. Our neighbor’s daughter graduated last year and the mom said several times what a sexiest place it was for her white daughter. She was able to get into a T20 university, but had some serious mental health challenges as a result of the isolation from kind, supportive female friends. Not worth it.

PP here, yes I have lots of recent familiarity with TJ. Honestly to me it seems pretty much the same as when I went there, with the exception of additional state-mandated graduation requirements that make it harder to pursue some electives. But that comes from the state, not TJ directly.

Wait, you mean the EPF class? That’s the only real “state mandated” change in the past 10-15 years. EPF can be taken over a 1-2 week period during the summer or over the school year.

Why did you apply and take someone’s seat when you are that unsure? Let someone else attend.

Anonymous wrote:I had a profoundly gifted child who wasn’t at FCPS due to military assignment of his father for grades 6 and 7. He has autism which FCPS doesn’t recognize as they call it “medical autism” not “educational autism” so he has a 504 not IEP which according to the new metric won’t get him an extra look. He tested well but cannot write. I think he would have tested into TJ but am not sure he will be picked under the new system. If he is, I am honestly not sure I want him there as it seems very discriminatory against minorities and those with disabilities which go against every way I have raised him. He loves life sciences but also history and English and doesn’t want to work hard. As a parent I want to keep his love of learning. Before we know the outcome, if you had a kid like mine what would you choose?

"Doesn't want to work hard" Please don't make him go. He will hate it.

Anonymous wrote:OP _ I feel like the way you framed your question gives you your own answer - you don't sound like you think TJ would be a good fit. If you have any doubts, then just have your child apply. If he gets in, that is the time to make a decision. Options are good things.

I would echo what some of the TJ parents said above that may make TJ a difficult fit for your child - many, many group projects, lots of writing, heavy work load that requires time management skills.

I will also stick up for TJ - my son had a great experience there, did not find the atmosphere toxic, was an upper middle of the pack student, loved the engineering classes, played a sport, had a great and diverse group of friends, and got into his first choice college. I am in no way suggesting that their were not unhappy kids there - some because they didn't have a cohort (hopefully admissions changes will improve) and some because of the family pressure to get perfect grades - but that is not the experience of every child.

+1, if she has to ask and is asking us to convince her, then the answer should be a no.