Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are very happy at Pipeline on the boys side and it has been a great club for our children who have played there for years. Every place has their issues, but we love it there. HOWEVER, I have definitely heard about the drama on the girls side and would probably want no part of that! I've found that most girls teams have way more drama than boys teams in general. You really see it here on this forum with the crazy soccer parents who fight over the most insane things for girls soccer.

I will say the knock against Pipeline being "shady" with their teams in age groups is somewhat true, and somewhat an exaggeration. They will move kids around and in my experience that really pisses off parents. We had a kid a few years ago who was playing up come back to play on his age group team for a tournament. It was most likely done to get a medal, but also to give the kid some on age experience because he wasn't getting as much time on the year up team as the parents had hoped for so they were considering moving him back down to his age. A lot of parents freaked out because he was taking time away from kids on the team, but the coaches were trying to see what was best for the kid (and frankly get a win). He was pretty dominant playing on age and people were suspicious so you start getting comments about "cheating". In the championship game the opposing coach asked for his playing card and it showed him on the team a year above, but he was rostered as a guest player for the on age team. Everyone lost their S and were calling the Pipeline kids cheaters after they lost. Was it illegal? No, he was rostered as a guest player and it was an opportunity for him to play on age group during his team's off week.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I feel like clubs are upfront that players can get moved up or down back to age. If people don't like it leave and try to find another club that uses a player pool to make its rosters where that doesn't happen but you won't. If the club wasn't clear that it could happen, that's one thing, but the parents would be naive to think it couldn't happen on their club or on other clubs and it sounds like Pipeline did it the legal way to get that kid to be able to play. How many players left that club afterwards? I bet none once they saw they got the medal.

I'd go further than this and say there is absolutely nothing wrong with what Pipeline did at all. Having had a DS who played up a year (not at Pipeline) I remember the discussion I had with the coaches when they wanted to move him up. They were very clear that they were moving him up because they felt he could be a starter on the older team and it would be good for him - but that if it turned out he wasn't good enough to be a starter on the older team it would be in nobody's interest for him to stay on that team and he would move back down. This made perfect sense to me - and to my DS. And it sounds like in the situation above the kid wasn't getting as much playing time as had been hoped on the older team - and therefore it is absolutely right and fair to give him playing time on his own age group team.

Where is the Pipeline First Class thread? Can we merge it with this one?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly why every coach should have a “don’t approach the coach within 12 hours of a game” policy. Too many emotions running high for too many parents.

Probably, but the coach in this situation only invited certain players from the top team and did not contact other players on the same team and got caught. I agree the parent should not have approached the coach but one of his other kids was playing in the same tournament in a different age group. It was a poor decision by both parent and coach however, the coach created the whole issue by playing favorites inside of one team. He did himself no favors by creating the drama in the first place. Instead, four players lose out on friends, having to find a new club. Friends of the family lose respect for the Club. And now it's a subject here for whoever wants to read about it. Everybody lost. If Pipeline/Coaches had any respect for families and players, they could have approached the father and tell them they wanted to move said player to the 2nd team. Ball would have been left in Father's court. No drama, end of story...

This is new info and adds more context, thank you. Were the certain players from the top team that got invited invited to play up? If so, those parens need to suck it up. If not, it's still the club's prerogative about which players they think are the right ones for certain contests and pulling from the player pool as necessary.

Anonymous wrote:We are very happy at Pipeline on the boys side and it has been a great club for our children who have played there for years. Every place has their issues, but we love it there. HOWEVER, I have definitely heard about the drama on the girls side and would probably want no part of that! I've found that most girls teams have way more drama than boys teams in general. You really see it here on this forum with the crazy soccer parents who fight over the most insane things for girls soccer.

I will say the knock against Pipeline being "shady" with their teams in age groups is somewhat true, and somewhat an exaggeration. They will move kids around and in my experience that really pisses off parents. We had a kid a few years ago who was playing up come back to play on his age group team for a tournament. It was most likely done to get a medal, but also to give the kid some on age experience because he wasn't getting as much time on the year up team as the parents had hoped for so they were considering moving him back down to his age. A lot of parents freaked out because he was taking time away from kids on the team, but the coaches were trying to see what was best for the kid (and frankly get a win). He was pretty dominant playing on age and people were suspicious so you start getting comments about "cheating". In the championship game the opposing coach asked for his playing card and it showed him on the team a year above, but he was rostered as a guest player for the on age team. Everyone lost their S and were calling the Pipeline kids cheaters after they lost. Was it illegal? No, he was rostered as a guest player and it was an opportunity for him to play on age group during his team's off week.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I feel like clubs are upfront that players can get moved up or down back to age. If people don't like it leave and try to find another club that uses a player pool to make its rosters where that doesn't happen but you won't. If the club wasn't clear that it could happen, that's one thing, but the parents would be naive to think it couldn't happen on their club or on other clubs and it sounds like Pipeline did it the legal way to get that kid to be able to play. How many players left that club afterwards? I bet none once they saw they got the medal.

Anonymous wrote:Exactly why every coach should have a “don’t approach the coach within 12 hours of a game” policy. Too many emotions running high for too many parents.

Probably, but the coach in this situation only invited certain players from the top team and did not contact other players on the same team and got caught. I agree the parent should not have approached the coach but one of his other kids was playing in the same tournament in a different age group. It was a poor decision by both parent and coach however, the coach created the whole issue by playing favorites inside of one team. He did himself no favors by creating the drama in the first place. Instead, four players lose out on friends, having to find a new club. Friends of the family lose respect for the Club. And now it's a subject here for whoever wants to read about it. Everybody lost. If Pipeline/Coaches had any respect for families and players, they could have approached the father and tell them they wanted to move said player to the 2nd team. Ball would have been left in Father's court. No drama, end of story...

I kind of like that they kicked that family out on the spot. I bet they won't be subjected to that treatment by other parents again. I know I personally will avoid teams for my kids or not select kids on my own teams if a kid' parents are intense douchebags. Often, sadly, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree from what I've seen personally and I don't want my kids or family in that orbit, and as a coach I don't want to invite that into the team culture.

We are very happy at Pipeline on the boys side and it has been a great club for our children who have played there for years. Every place has their issues, but we love it there. HOWEVER, I have definitely heard about the drama on the girls side and would probably want no part of that! I've found that most girls teams have way more drama than boys teams in general. You really see it here on this forum with the crazy soccer parents who fight over the most insane things for girls soccer.

I will say the knock against Pipeline being "shady" with their teams in age groups is somewhat true, and somewhat an exaggeration. They will move kids around and in my experience that really pisses off parents. We had a kid a few years ago who was playing up come back to play on his age group team for a tournament. It was most likely done to get a medal, but also to give the kid some on age experience because he wasn't getting as much time on the year up team as the parents had hoped for so they were considering moving him back down to his age. A lot of parents freaked out because he was taking time away from kids on the team, but the coaches were trying to see what was best for the kid (and frankly get a win). He was pretty dominant playing on age and people were suspicious so you start getting comments about "cheating". In the championship game the opposing coach asked for his playing card and it showed him on the team a year above, but he was rostered as a guest player for the on age team. Everyone lost their S and were calling the Pipeline kids cheaters after they lost. Was it illegal? No, he was rostered as a guest player and it was an opportunity for him to play on age group during his team's off week.

Exactly why every coach should have a “don’t approach the coach within 12 hours of a game” policy. Too many emotions running high for too many parents.

Anonymous wrote:We had a daughter at Baltimore Armour and Pipeline. We chose BA because she was with Pipeline, it was the "next level up", a few of her friends went as well, and BA was actually closer to us. It was either go to BA or find another team as Pipeline didn't really have a good avenue for elite play at the older years. If she was in the same spot today we would have stayed with Pipeline.

I've heard about some of the issues on the girls side, mainly the troubled 2006ish girls who have a couple wild animal of parents and players, but we didn't experience first hand on our teams. I mean, they had to disable teamsnap chat because parents were fighting with each other over the team messages...unbelievable. We have a son who plays there who is younger, but again, really haven't experienced any of the issues/fake rumors that go around.

In regards to the incident with the removal of kids from the team, it is once again twisted and we know people on the team. The parent was a known problem and had been warned previously for their actions. Calling what he did to the coach after the game "approached" is comical. It was threatening and he was asked to the leave the team as any organization would do. I don't know what happened with the other kids, but probably were told to leave because of the parent (the one child was definitely removed from the team), or the parents pulled the kids after the incident and then started rumors because they wanted a refund. I have no idea, but either way, the parent was a nightmare and they were probably eager to remove.

I've actually been really happy to have my kids at Pipeline and if I wasn't happy they wouldn't be playing there. The organization as a whole is definitely more arrogant than most and that can turn off some people, but we are happy there overall as no place is perfect. For what it's worth I really enjoyed BA as well. Just not sure how the girls or boys side will do with so many other options available.

That parent did not "threaten" DP. Not even close. DP completely lost it on the dad. Yes, the Dad is a known complainer, that I won't deny. It is known pretty well with the 07s. Still there was absolutely no reason for him to act that way towards the PP. He also told the player right on the spot that she was off the team. Is that how you would expect a coach to handle the situation. DP is a known right-wing conspiracy theorist who was also at the insurrection. Real "Classy" Coach there....

Pipeline settled out of court with Coppermine. Fact, like it or not.

The Elite Tournament rumor is not true. Pipeline was never banned. It is quite the opposite really. Many clubs do not enter Elite Tournaments because of how they have handled refunds among other things...

About TeamSnap...I guess there is three teams that have gotten banned or discouraged from using the chat function. 06,08, and 09. The 2010's aren't far behind from what I hear. Sorry, but the girls side 2006 and under is a disaster despite the results.

Lastly, Pipeline is known for rostering it's top kids down in EDP the "B" and "C" teams just to get results, robbing other teams of a fair chance to win. While it might be within the rules, it certainly isn't ethical. This has been happening for the past five years in order to get wins and get a higher rank with the hopes of recruiting kids.

I can't say anything about the Boys side as I have no clue.

We had a daughter at Baltimore Armour and Pipeline. We chose BA because she was with Pipeline, it was the "next level up", a few of her friends went as well, and BA was actually closer to us. It was either go to BA or find another team as Pipeline didn't really have a good avenue for elite play at the older years. If she was in the same spot today we would have stayed with Pipeline.

I've heard about some of the issues on the girls side, mainly the troubled 2006ish girls who have a couple wild animal of parents and players, but we didn't experience first hand on our teams. I mean, they had to disable teamsnap chat because parents were fighting with each other over the team messages...unbelievable. We have a son who plays there who is younger, but again, really haven't experienced any of the issues/fake rumors that go around.

In regards to the incident with the removal of kids from the team, it is once again twisted and we know people on the team. The parent was a known problem and had been warned previously for their actions. Calling what he did to the coach after the game "approached" is comical. It was threatening and he was asked to the leave the team as any organization would do. I don't know what happened with the other kids, but probably were told to leave because of the parent (the one child was definitely removed from the team), or the parents pulled the kids after the incident and then started rumors because they wanted a refund. I have no idea, but either way, the parent was a nightmare and they were probably eager to remove.

I've actually been really happy to have my kids at Pipeline and if I wasn't happy they wouldn't be playing there. The organization as a whole is definitely more arrogant than most and that can turn off some people, but we are happy there overall as no place is perfect. For what it's worth I really enjoyed BA as well. Just not sure how the girls or boys side will do with so many other options available.

My child has played for Pipeline for five years. No club is perfect but we have found Pipeline to be one of the better managed clubs, amd I say this across sports. The girls who left BA for Pipeline are all, or almost all, former Pipeline players who had the opportunity to evaluate both clubs and make their own decisions as to which they preferred. Clearly a number preferred Pipeline.

There is someone high up in another club who likes to start false rumors about Pipeline on this board. First it was that Pipeline had applied to ENCL and wasn’t getting any teams because of evil management. Then it was harping on a truly ridiculous lawsuit brought by Coppermine because a few of their 2008 players received an email from Pipeline inviting them to tryouts, no players actually moved from Coppermine to Pipeline, although several left Coppermine for other local clubs. More recently, it was that Pipeline was banned from Elite tournaments. Pipeline has participated in the last two Elite tournaments.

I am sure there are families who have legitimate reasons to not like the club. I am also sure there are some parents who are convinced their child is the second coming and anyone failing to appreciate their child is at fault. Pipeline has become the dominant club in the Baltimore area and clearly that has upset some other clubs.

Anonymous wrote:At this rate it won't matter if Pipeline gets ECNL or not--they will remain strong.

They are in ecnl.

*weigh*

Let me way in here. I'm not a fan of either club but at least Baltimore Armour follows rules.

Every experience I've had with Pipeline is horrible, at least on the girls side.

It's a For-Profit club that preys on parents especially at the early ages. Players and parents who have a relationship with Sean Rush and the coaches, get biased treatment no matter how good they are.

They illegally recruit players even after settling out of court for millions of dollars. For the same 2008 year, there were also issues with girls from Baltimore Union on top of Coppermine.

Some players don't have to attend practices nor pay club fees while all of the others do, including those riding the bench.

They recently kicked a family of 4 kids out of the club because a parent approached a coach after the game. That coach actually kicked the Family out right in front of the kids and made them cry. That's a real POS person act in that manor, not to mention some of the players were key players. Probably should have never approached the coach, obviously, but poor handling of that situation.

Development is poor. They play a form of "Go forward" and do not possess the ball like other Elite teams. This is across the board.

And then you have the parents. Perhaps the most belligerent I have seen in my time. The whole environment is toxic. However, I will say that the 2006 and 2005 Girls ECNL teams/parent are an exception, especially the 2006s.

Look, if Pipeline changed some of it's ways instead of having two of the most arrogant people (Rush and Santino) running things and understood how to deal with it's paying parents, it would certainly be a destination club.

Baltimore Armour's main gripe would be playing in GA without getting results followed by extremely large rosters. I think that is more the reason that kids went back to Pipeline than anything else.

Celtic Union also has an issue in getting results within the GA. They have some great coaches and the parents also seem to be supportive and get along. We know the 07 team well and they have managed to stick together for years now. Unfortunately, I think some of those parents are now seeing the inevitable with GA and may be making a move to Maryland United and Bethesda at seasons end.

Look, we've been around the block, residing on the south side of Baltimore. I would much rather my DD play at Celtic Union GA or Baltimore Armour than Pipeline regardless of ECNL. The environment is that bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How and why is Pipeline mentioned in this thread. Since you bring them up - they are underhanded and lied to parents and players about the collapse of the DA and their application to ECNL. I can start a thread on that crap alone - Baltimore Armour may not have all the results but they are absolutely a great bunch of coaches that truly care

How did they “lie” about the collapse of the DA? They told parents it wasn’t going to happen? i’m confused.

Sean and Santino had applied for ECNL many times but with fervor once they heard the DA was collapsing. They did not tell the players or coaches in the organization as they had to hear from outside sources. When the move was official, a scramble to keep BA loyalists occurred and they landed at SAC. Fine.

Pipeline leaders lied to parents telling them there was no other option and then charged more money for themselves. The same people that recently released a family from their rosters just because the decided they didn’t fit the mold anymore a cut 3 girls from one family, multiple age groups.

I have no kid in either and I’m not affiliated with the org. Can’t someone just be nice and favorable about a club? I can despise one club and what they stand for and compliment another - and not even have a kid on either. I am a baseball coach actually elsewhere and studied all Maryland teams for my kids future

It's amazing how these stories mutate over time from people who have no idea. I am not affiliated with either but have friends in both and have heard both sides...many, many times . Pipeline and BA(SAC) had a partnership for the DA. It was always an uneasy partnership because Pipeline wanted to retain talent on their teams and not gut them for the BA partnership. Plus, parents didn't want to drive past Pipeline fields to go to Columbia and liked the coaches at Pipeline.

Pipeline was kind of stuck at the U13 and above levels as an organization because they didn't have their own platform to retain top talent with ECNL and DA so of course they would want to have a direct link to ECNL. There were also long standing disagreements in how the DA was operating and the partnership between SAC and Pipeline. Pipeline applied for ECNL and was accepted. It was in their best interest to do so, especially after the DA collapse where they had no direct link to elite level leagues anymore. What should they have done? Just said we have great teams but nowhere to play at a higher level?

I think both organizations are actually pretty good. It's hard to say otherwise if you are being objective. I just don't understand all the hate...well, I guess I do because Pipeline took a lot of the BA players including the top talent and coach (Santino from Pipeline coached the BA team) on the girls side and now have a direct line to ECNL on the boys side, which isn't as strong as MLSNEXT, but it's a very solid platform for kids to be seen if that's what they want.