I visited CalTech last year on a tour for educators and was mostly turned off. For the right kid, it seems like it would be great fit, but for the large majority, it seems like they'd hate it. The dean of admissions, who was lovely, said students spend 90% of their time on something academic and also said they take pride in breaking good students and building them back into great scientists. Also, I toured a few labs and at least the ones we saw did not seem any more equipped than many of our local high schools. I think the advantage is the brain power and mentorship, but again, is that the right fit for most? Probably not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CalTech is pass fail for first 2 years, no? How can that be soul crushing?

https://www.its.caltech.edu/~ph1a/QPs/QP1-53.pdf
These are the quiz problems for first quarter physics.

There are 54 pages - so about 5-6 pages per week? It took me a week for one page at the GMU level and people thought I was smart. I didn't take AP Physics though - I was a HS Senior taking CS classes. The Caltech people did and this is likely a rigorous review.

I think it's doable for any Physics major if given enough time - the hard part is time. But then I also heard that these are solved with groups of smart people. I remember reading that you try it alone and you will fail;

Op - can you post a sample project/quiz for a CS course? I can compare apples to apples.

HW for automata course: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs20/a/assign.html

Labs (HW?) for the lowest level of CS available: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs1/assignments/lab1/ (increment the 1 and the end)
Exam to place out of CS 1: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs1/placement/placement-exam-cs1.html
2nd term CS (which some students place into): https://debuggi.ng/26wi/ (note the lecture timings, seen more easily by turning the calendar to list mode)

This mirrors the work we did at the intro level at a liberal arts college 10 years ago. I don’t know if this is as impressive as you tried to make it out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CalTech is pass fail for first 2 years, no? How can that be soul crushing?

https://www.its.caltech.edu/~ph1a/QPs/QP1-53.pdf
These are the quiz problems for first quarter physics.

There are 54 pages - so about 5-6 pages per week? It took me a week for one page at the GMU level and people thought I was smart. I didn't take AP Physics though - I was a HS Senior taking CS classes. The Caltech people did and this is likely a rigorous review.

I think it's doable for any Physics major if given enough time - the hard part is time. But then I also heard that these are solved with groups of smart people. I remember reading that you try it alone and you will fail;

Op - can you post a sample project/quiz for a CS course? I can compare apples to apples.

HW for automata course: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs20/a/assign.html

Labs (HW?) for the lowest level of CS available: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs1/assignments/lab1/ (increment the 1 and the end)
Exam to place out of CS 1: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs1/placement/placement-exam-cs1.html
2nd term CS (which some students place into): https://debuggi.ng/26wi/ (note the lecture timings, seen more easily by turning the calendar to list mode)

The MS in CS adult that's been coding for the past 30 years would have fun; the 17 year old GMU freshman me would be spending twice or three times the time doing the work. But loving every min of it. Thanks for the insight.

Those kids are lucky and if your kids complain there are 70000 other kids that will do the work without complaint.

CalTech is an extremely unique school. The freshman class is only about 230 students. It's very research intensive. It's brainiacs doing brainiac things.

I'm pretty sure CalTech is not going to be in the College Football Championship. Alas. Maybe next year.

And to round out freshman year: https://sof.tware.design/25sp/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CalTech is pass fail for first 2 years, no? How can that be soul crushing?

https://www.its.caltech.edu/~ph1a/QPs/QP1-53.pdf
These are the quiz problems for first quarter physics.

There are 54 pages - so about 5-6 pages per week? It took me a week for one page at the GMU level and people thought I was smart. I didn't take AP Physics though - I was a HS Senior taking CS classes. The Caltech people did and this is likely a rigorous review.

I think it's doable for any Physics major if given enough time - the hard part is time. But then I also heard that these are solved with groups of smart people. I remember reading that you try it alone and you will fail;

Op - can you post a sample project/quiz for a CS course? I can compare apples to apples.

HW for automata course: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs20/a/assign.html

Labs (HW?) for the lowest level of CS available: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs1/assignments/lab1/ (increment the 1 and the end)
Exam to place out of CS 1: https://courses.cms.caltech.edu/cs1/placement/placement-exam-cs1.html
2nd term CS (which some students place into): https://debuggi.ng/26wi/ (note the lecture timings, seen more easily by turning the calendar to list mode)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Caltech is vastly vastly superior to Harvey mudd. only 35 students in Harvey Mudd's entire freshman class scored above 1560 on the sat. at Caltech, that number is closer to 80 percent of the class.

Harvey Mudd is test optional.
Caltech isn't.

Where is that 35 students figure coming from?

Harvey Mudd's Common Data Set

Freshman class size: 236
130 enrolled freshman submitted SAT's

25%-50%-75%
1500-1510-1560

75 percent of freshman scored BELOW 1560, 25 percent above. 25% of 130 about 30 students. In fact, something like 40% scored below 1500 at Harvey Mudd when you realize only half bother to submit an SAT score. These are usually the below the 25th percentile crowd.

So, no, Caltech and Harvey Mudd are vastly different in the quality of their undergraduate students

Yet their outcomes for salaries and PhD production are essentially indistinguishable

Thank you! This was such a wonderful thread, without any malice, and yet some posts still spew venom. Assumptions are never reliable data anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CalTech is pass fail for first 2 years, no? How can that be soul crushing?

https://www.its.caltech.edu/~ph1a/QPs/QP1-53.pdf
These are the quiz problems for first quarter physics.

There are 54 pages - so about 5-6 pages per week? It took me a week for one page at the GMU level and people thought I was smart. I didn't take AP Physics though - I was a HS Senior taking CS classes. The Caltech people did and this is likely a rigorous review.

I think it's doable for any Physics major if given enough time - the hard part is time. But then I also heard that these are solved with groups of smart people. I remember reading that you try it alone and you will fail;

Op - can you post a sample project/quiz for a CS course? I can compare apples to apples.

I feel like if Caltech is right for the kid, the kid would know it.

Caltech's pass/fail is only for freshman year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CalTech is pass fail for first 2 years, no? How can that be soul crushing?

https://www.its.caltech.edu/~ph1a/QPs/QP1-53.pdf
These are the quiz problems for first quarter physics.

How long do they have for this?

Anonymous wrote:CalTech is pass fail for first 2 years, no? How can that be soul crushing?

https://www.its.caltech.edu/~ph1a/QPs/QP1-53.pdf
These are the quiz problems for first quarter physics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Caltech is the only school environment I can easily declare is completely miserable. There’s nothing fun going on at Caltech. It’s just an environment for people obsessed with STEM. Best for the introverted science kid who wants to go to aspires most to get a PhD/be a leader in STEM.

The question isn’t whether the school has wild parties and hot babes. The question is whether the school ends up being fun or soul crushing for students who love STEM.

MIT is fun for virtually all the STEM-loving nerds. Caltech is crushing for a good portion of the STEM-loving nerds (i.e. the student body)

Do you have a kid at each school? Wondering how you can speak so confidently about the student experience at each school.

This is well-known. I'm not splitting hairs, this is from alumni of the respective schools.

Anonymous wrote:My daughter loved Caltech - it was challenging but in a good way, not at all soul crushing. And her peers were amazing - kind and brilliant and a surprising number who partied harder than seemed wise. The house system fostered very close friendships and many left with long term boyfriends/girlfriends.

What was her major? Did she take the analytical track or place out of any courses?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Caltech is vastly vastly superior to Harvey mudd. only 35 students in Harvey Mudd's entire freshman class scored above 1560 on the sat. at Caltech, that number is closer to 80 percent of the class.

Harvey Mudd is test optional.
Caltech isn't.

Where is that 35 students figure coming from?

Harvey Mudd's Common Data Set

Freshman class size: 236
130 enrolled freshman submitted SAT's

25%-50%-75%
1500-1510-1560

75 percent of freshman scored BELOW 1560, 25 percent above. 25% of 130 about 30 students. In fact, something like 40% scored below 1500 at Harvey Mudd when you realize only half bother to submit an SAT score. These are usually the below the 25th percentile crowd.

So, no, Caltech and Harvey Mudd are vastly different in the quality of their undergraduate students

Yet their outcomes for salaries and PhD production are essentially indistinguishable