Anonymous wrote:I wonder about staying up with her in the living/family room with low lights and calm activities (reading together, a mild craft/drawing), maybe a solid non-sugary snack and milk around 9pm, and then establish a shorter bedtime routine where she actually falls asleep at the end of it (which might mean starting the routine around 9:45 right now). Once that’s peaceful and normal, try moving it back a few minutes a night and see how early you can get it?

Sometimes in my experience acceptance helps me see a new way of incorporating peace. The hours of her screaming when you want her asleep sound like the challenge to me, not the total number of hours she’s sleeping.

This sounds worth a try! Will try and report back!

I wonder about staying up with her in the living/family room with low lights and calm activities (reading together, a mild craft/drawing), maybe a solid non-sugary snack and milk around 9pm, and then establish a shorter bedtime routine where she actually falls asleep at the end of it (which might mean starting the routine around 9:45 right now). Once that’s peaceful and normal, try moving it back a few minutes a night and see how early you can get it?

Sometimes in my experience acceptance helps me see a new way of incorporating peace. The hours of her screaming when you want her asleep sound like the challenge to me, not the total number of hours she’s sleeping.

Anonymous wrote:OP what is her total sleep in a 24 hour period (nap pls hours at bedtime)and has she always had this issue of lower than expected sleep? Any change in diet or bowel? Any possibility of mouth breathing or snoring? Any issues with nursing or feeding as an infant?

She generally wakes up about 6:45/7 when we wake her. On weekends she may sleep in until 7:30, 8 if it was a very late night.

She does a solid two hour nap at daycare 1-3 pm. Teachers report she goes down easily and is the first one asleep.

So if she falls asleep by 10, she’s getting max of 11 hours a day: 2 + 9.

She was a great sleeper as a baby, slept through the night early on without any sleep training. Even when she transitioned to a regular bed it took a few returns to the bed but she would fall asleep fairly early. There have been no other family or lifestyle changes, diet, eating, bowel, routine. No snoring and I haven’t noticed any mouth breathing. She did have a tongue tie revision as a newborn but breastfed fine after that, though was mostly formula fed due to very low supply likely a result of previous breast surgery.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We feel like we’ve tried everything at this point. We cannot get our 2.5 year old to go to sleep. We start our bedtime routine at 7-7:30 everyday and if she’s asleep by 10 it’s a good day. She does nap at daycare but even when she doesn’t nap because she’s home she still won’t go to sleep. She says she wants to play.

Any ideas for getting her to wind down and go to bed?

Tell her it's Quiet Time for her.

She will just play quietly for hours.

OP what is her total sleep in a 24 hour period (nap pls hours at bedtime)and has she always had this issue of lower than expected sleep? Any change in diet or bowel? Any possibility of mouth breathing or snoring? Any issues with nursing or feeding as an infant?

Anonymous wrote:We feel like we’ve tried everything at this point. We cannot get our 2.5 year old to go to sleep. We start our bedtime routine at 7-7:30 everyday and if she’s asleep by 10 it’s a good day. She does nap at daycare but even when she doesn’t nap because she’s home she still won’t go to sleep. She says she wants to play.

Any ideas for getting her to wind down and go to bed?

Tell her it's Quiet Time for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for earlier bedtimes compared to most but if your kid is napping at daycare you need to plan on a later bedtime.

I’d aim for in bed at 8/815 lights out 830-845.
If she doesn’t nap on weekends then in bed at 645-7 lights out by 715.
At this point the habits she’s created of stalling on nap days are habits on no nap days too. You need to break the cycle.
Maybe put a small toy or piece of candy in sight in her room bur out of reach. Tell her if she doesn’t get up until morning she can have it. BUT set her up for success, not in bed at 730 when she’s had a 2 hour nap.

I don’t think’s ready for the delayed gratification reward. She’s not even motivated by things like sticker charts. She IS motivated by candy but that’s obviously not an option. 😂

We have been trying various bedtimes over the past three months. We adjust the routine and give it several days and see no difference. The routine is consistent. She has just now, at 10:30, set up her blanket on the floor and tucked herself in for bed.

Does the routine involve reading and winding down? It sounds like you aren't teaching her to lie down and relax slowly and are opting for her just running out of gas and lying down from exhaustion on her own. Bottom line is that you don't have to be a jerk to be in charge and teach them stuff. They literally don't know how to do things until you show them.

We have a solid wind down routine that includes low lighting, quiet music, and quiet voices. I lay in her bed to show her how to sleep. I tell her to close her eyes. I rock her to sleep. None of it works. She is always high energy and won’t sit/lay/cuddle/listen to books.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I would be wound up too if I were getting locked in a room for two hours before I was ready to sleep. Start routine more like 8:30 and read to her and tell her you will stay until she goes to sleep. Then start working away from that once she is able to do bath, books, settle down with you there.

Locking her in a room while she pulls the drawers out of the dresser is not helping with her sleepiness. You are probably giving her anxiety and making her stay up even later.

We have tried every bedtime imaginable. Even when we start at 8:30, stay with her, offer cuddles, etc. she is still pulling drawers at 11:30.

Since 8:30 also doesn’t work, what time do you suggest we start? What do you suggest if we stay in her room but she is not in bed, not trying to go to bed, climbing on us, and is just playing and pulling drawers?

Any time that you are willing to tell her that she needs to be in bed with you while you read to her. It just kind of sounds like she is in charge. You may need to practice being the parent. Then you read several books and she gets sleepy. You say I will stay until you fall asleep.

Help me out here. How does practicing being the parent get her to sleep?

I’ve explained before everything we have tried. I am very good at holding boundaries. “I will stay with you if you stay in bed.” “I will read more books if you stay in bed…” I cuddle or read and she gets up and leaves the bed. I immediately get up and leave. She stays awake for hours more playing or screaming.

How about establishing a regular night time routine?
Perhaps after dinner you can give her a warm bath, 🛁 then do a quiet/calm activity while her hair dries.

Perhaps a puzzle or an age-appropriate children’s game would be ideal…..

Blackout curtains. Complete blackout

I had a kid who didn't want to go to sleep at night. The only thing that worked was sitting in his room until he fell asleep. I would sit in the dark and read DCUM on my phone under a blanket. It usually took 30 - 45 min.

We’ve had a similar issue with my 2.5 yo DC, though not as extreme (usually asleep by 9:30). Honestly the only real factor we’ve found makes a difference is the amount of time she is awake between nap and falling asleep (needs to be about 6 hours for her). We are lucky enough to have some flexibility with that because we have a nanny. But two additional thoughts:

1.) Can you put the railing back on her crib? My DC is still in a crib (lowest setting) and hasn’t tried to escape, so even on her worst night she’s just playing by herself in her crib with the lights off.

2.) I second the suggestion from above re try cuddling her asleep for a few nights, then try to wean back from that. I still rock my DC to sleep when she’s sick, or hold her hand until she’s asleep. May be worth a shot?

3.) You may not have the space available, but consider taking everything out of her room: books, dresser, everything but her bed and one blanket. Boredom may force her to sleep faster. Again, doesn’t have to be forever, just until she’s in a better rhythm.

Does she play by herself in there or is she coming out/trying to escape/trying to get you to engage? Is it possible that she needs some time to unwind by herself? If she's in daycare all day, shares a room with her brother, and gets 2.5 hours of parent/family time this chaos time might be the only time she gets to just do what she wants on her own. Maybe declare 7-7:30 to be her time when no one is allowed to bother her and she can play what she wants (as long as its safe) in her room.

This advice is not based on my experience with my children, I'm basing it on my own self-destructive need to stay up late to get time to putter around on my own. I can't power down until I've had some alone time.

If it's a can't get her to just be still problem, we've had good luck with audio books, but it sounds like you've already tried that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for earlier bedtimes compared to most but if your kid is napping at daycare you need to plan on a later bedtime.

I’d aim for in bed at 8/815 lights out 830-845.
If she doesn’t nap on weekends then in bed at 645-7 lights out by 715.
At this point the habits she’s created of stalling on nap days are habits on no nap days too. You need to break the cycle.
Maybe put a small toy or piece of candy in sight in her room bur out of reach. Tell her if she doesn’t get up until morning she can have it. BUT set her up for success, not in bed at 730 when she’s had a 2 hour nap.

I don’t think’s ready for the delayed gratification reward. She’s not even motivated by things like sticker charts. She IS motivated by candy but that’s obviously not an option. 😂

We have been trying various bedtimes over the past three months. We adjust the routine and give it several days and see no difference. The routine is consistent. She has just now, at 10:30, set up her blanket on the floor and tucked herself in for bed.

Does the routine involve reading and winding down? It sounds like you aren't teaching her to lie down and relax slowly and are opting for her just running out of gas and lying down from exhaustion on her own. Bottom line is that you don't have to be a jerk to be in charge and teach them stuff. They literally don't know how to do things until you show them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I would be wound up too if I were getting locked in a room for two hours before I was ready to sleep. Start routine more like 8:30 and read to her and tell her you will stay until she goes to sleep. Then start working away from that once she is able to do bath, books, settle down with you there.

Locking her in a room while she pulls the drawers out of the dresser is not helping with her sleepiness. You are probably giving her anxiety and making her stay up even later.

We have tried every bedtime imaginable. Even when we start at 8:30, stay with her, offer cuddles, etc. she is still pulling drawers at 11:30.

Since 8:30 also doesn’t work, what time do you suggest we start? What do you suggest if we stay in her room but she is not in bed, not trying to go to bed, climbing on us, and is just playing and pulling drawers?

Any time that you are willing to tell her that she needs to be in bed with you while you read to her. It just kind of sounds like she is in charge. You may need to practice being the parent. Then you read several books and she gets sleepy. You say I will stay until you fall asleep.