The impressive job thing is not even true. Men are expected to have good careers with high earning potential, they are punished/looked down on if they fail in this area. Women are not expected to have good jobs as a baseline. A woman with a good career is at most, icing on the cake in the eyes of society.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the average woman is working an impressive job, cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, and emotionally intelligent.

There is usually a husband, parents, nannies, cleaners etc involved. Lots of women buy ready made meals, get take out etc.

And I don't think women are simply emotionally intelligent by virtue of being female.

I know the trope is the superwoman mother and the useless father but I don't actually see either in real life. In my family, friends, colleagues, acquaintances - the mothers and fathers are all involved in whatever it takes to manage the home and family, lots have help and use conveniences, and none are useless or perfect.

I totally disagree - I have a ton of friends who are doing this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree 100%! And this is why women dominate the patriarchy. They are so superior to men.

This thread is really bothering you, eh

The delusional blathering is entertaining. You want to be sooo oppressed but also claim to be soooo superior, depending on what's convenient at the moment. Pick a lane. Or better yet don't. It's funny,.

I would say to ask your wife to explain it to you, but you’re one of those forever alone types, aren’t you?

Annnnnd, there it goes….incel!!

Average woman is also sooooo creative lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's true.

The man who does the bare minimum is celebrated. The woman who does more than the bare minimum is still excoriated. If they can cook and clean up after themselves they're seen as some sort of god.

Literally, the bar is in hell for men, and many still come with a shovel.

Who is celebrating them and seeing them as a god? Who is excoriating the women?

People seem to be caught up in their own heads. This just doesn't happen.

+1 I think these tropes are very unhelpful.

Maybe it's because we have kids in daycare and public ES but it's mostly 2 working parents and both are juggling dropoffs, Dr appts, etc.

Yeah, I guess maybe different neighborhoods are different. We are the same, where we live, there are always fathers at the park and at the school pick up and at the school play and at soccer practice and at the doctors office - no one even notices them. Moms and dads divide and conquer. The idea that it would be so novel to see a father in one of these places that all the mothers would run over to clap them on the back and praise them and fawn over them and be amazed is completely foreign to me.

I read the post title that an average woman feels entitled to have a really great man: high income, good looks and a show-biz personality. An average man is unacceptable for an average woman to have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree 100%! And this is why women dominate the patriarchy. They are so superior to men.

This thread is really bothering you, eh

The delusional blathering is entertaining. You want to be sooo oppressed but also claim to be soooo superior, depending on what's convenient at the moment. Pick a lane. Or better yet don't. It's funny,.

I would say to ask your wife to explain it to you, but you’re one of those forever alone types, aren’t you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree 100%! And this is why women dominate the patriarchy. They are so superior to men.

This thread is really bothering you, eh

The delusional blathering is entertaining. You want to be sooo oppressed but also claim to be soooo superior, depending on what's convenient at the moment. Pick a lane. Or better yet don't. It's funny,.

I would say to ask your wife to explain it to you, but you’re one of those forever alone types, aren’t you?

DS had a cub scout pot luck once. You had to provide a list of ingredients next to your dish. I told exDH that I wanted to bring Manwich but I obviously couldn't. He stepped up and said he would do it. He made it and stuck it in a crockpot to keep warm and put the can next to the crockpot. The bags of buns were placed next to the crockpot.

People were fawning over him saying what a great idea, it was delicious, and of course, it was all gone. Had I walked in with the crockpot, I would have been eviscerated for putting in so little effort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the average woman is working an impressive job, cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, and emotionally intelligent.

There is usually a husband, parents, nannies, cleaners etc involved. Lots of women buy ready made meals, get take out etc.

And I don't think women are simply emotionally intelligent by virtue of being female.

I know the trope is the superwoman mother and the useless father but I don't actually see either in real life. In my family, friends, colleagues, acquaintances - the mothers and fathers are all involved in whatever it takes to manage the home and family, lots have help and use conveniences, and none are useless or perfect.

I am divorced and childless (not by choice) so I admit up front I may not see all the things, but the superwoman mother and the useless father is all I see around me. Perhaps it is cultural.

Sometimes it's not even a superwoman and a useless dad. Sometimes it's the mom who is clearly barely holding on by a thread, who doesn't manage to make anything for the bake sale at all and is happy just to get her kids to school on time and fed at regular intervals and still get through her work day and pay the bills. But even in these situations (perhaps especially in these situations), I often see a man doing even less or totally checked out, or even working against his wife and being the reason the family is always running late or creating conflict with the kids that the mom has to sort through and her kids process so they don't wind up anxious or miserable.

Yet in this scenario, the mom will get a scolding from the school about tardies while the dad will get a clap on the back for doing something simple like showing up to a school performance (that his wife told him about and got the kids ready for and planned dinner in advance to accommodate, and to which the dad still showed up 20 minutes late).

Anonymous wrote:Who is fawning over the men - the other mothers at the bake sale? the receptionist at the doctor's office?

I haven't really seen men get fawned over by basic things but I guess in my circle, we don't really fawn over anyone.

Some people now make a point of not fawning over the men, which is good. None of the families we are friends with would praise a man for doing basic parenting.

But to dismiss the fact that many people in society DO set the bar in the basement for fathers is just ignorant. Lots of women are dealing with ILs and even their own parents, for instance, who have incredibly misogynistic views about what mothers and fathers are supposed to do. If you don't have that experience, congratulations! Your parents and ILs were ahead of their time. But as someone who has been at extended family events and been told or expected to watch, feed, and tend to the children at all times while my DH is expected to sit and visit with people, I am directly impacted by this attitude. My DH doesn't indulge it and we have an egalitarian marriage. Which means that many of our relatives praise him constantly for... parenting while gossiping about me behind my back as "lazy" or "very fortunate" just because my husband doesn't sit around doing nothing while I cook and clean and take care of our kids.

I do also sometimes run into this attitude among peer parents. Again, not my friends or social circle, but sometimes at the kids' school, from teachers, or we'll encounter some very weirdly gendered expectations for parent contributions/involvement in sports and activities. We shake them off but that doesn't mean we don't have to deal with them or that they don't cause problems sometimes. The social attitudes of others impact me whether I agree with them or not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree 100%! And this is why women dominate the patriarchy. They are so superior to men.

This thread is really bothering you, eh

The delusional blathering is entertaining. You want to be sooo oppressed but also claim to be soooo superior, depending on what's convenient at the moment. Pick a lane. Or better yet don't. It's funny,.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the average woman is working an impressive job, cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, and emotionally intelligent.

There is usually a husband, parents, nannies, cleaners etc involved. Lots of women buy ready made meals, get take out etc.

And I don't think women are simply emotionally intelligent by virtue of being female.

I know the trope is the superwoman mother and the useless father but I don't actually see either in real life. In my family, friends, colleagues, acquaintances - the mothers and fathers are all involved in whatever it takes to manage the home and family, lots have help and use conveniences, and none are useless or perfect.

I am divorced and childless (not by choice) so I admit up front I may not see all the things, but the superwoman mother and the useless father is all I see around me. Perhaps it is cultural.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's true.

The man who does the bare minimum is celebrated. The woman who does more than the bare minimum is still excoriated. If they can cook and clean up after themselves they're seen as some sort of god.

Literally, the bar is in hell for men, and many still come with a shovel.

Who is celebrating them and seeing them as a god? Who is excoriating the women?

People seem to be caught up in their own heads. This just doesn't happen.

My husband and I are egalitarian parents and he truly does his half. When we had two under two, he got ENDLESS compliments from strangers in public when it was just him with the two of them. I mean, he could not take them to the park for an hour without someone commenting on how he was such a great dad. Twice during that time strangers BOUGHT HIM COFFEE because he was such a great dad and had his hands full!

I've never had a stranger compliment my parenting.

And I remember one time, when I was pregnant with #3 and had a cold, we were at my mothers and trying to pack up to leave and watch the two kids, and it was a bit crazy. We were both working together to get things done, and my mother is just fawning. "Oh, you are such a great dad! Look at all you're doing!" and I eventually had to stop and say "Mom, I'm doing the same things, and I'm also PREGNANT and SICK!"

So, yeah. This is a thing for sure.

This! People think a dad taking his kids to the playground (an extremely easy and almost passive parenting activity) is impressive. I've spent hours at playgrounds as a mom and no one has ever thought this was impressive. Not that I think they should -- again, it's a normal, easy activity. But somehow when a man does it, he's a savior. Barf.

I did get the fawning over stuff when I had the kids in public when they were young, and it was insulting.

My wife and I bring different things to the table, but share the lift on getting kids where they need to go, dressing and feeding them, and keeping a home.

There's a huge amount of this nonsense on Instagram where women are all talking about how incompetent their men are at basic functions and that is not something I see in my crowd of MC/UMC fathers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's true.

The man who does the bare minimum is celebrated. The woman who does more than the bare minimum is still excoriated. If they can cook and clean up after themselves they're seen as some sort of god.

Literally, the bar is in hell for men, and many still come with a shovel.

Who is celebrating them and seeing them as a god? Who is excoriating the women?

People seem to be caught up in their own heads. This just doesn't happen.

+1 I think these tropes are very unhelpful.

Maybe it's because we have kids in daycare and public ES but it's mostly 2 working parents and both are juggling dropoffs, Dr appts, etc.