Anonymous wrote:I would look at how he treats others…especially his mother, if she is alive, and his kids, if he has any.

Anonymous wrote:1 and 2 are so dependent on circumstances. DH is an amazing dad and husband. His dad is a great guy but wasn't around much growing up and wasn't an involved dad. DH grew up working middle class and his dad worked 3 jobs most of his childhood so he wasn't around much. And he was understandably tired and quick tempered (yelled a lot). His mom worked and was more involved.

For me, this is what I paid attention to

1. His relationship with his family. Not necessarily how close they were but how they acted around each other. He doesn't have a super lovey dovey family, but they all get along well and everyone is kind and respectful
2. His work ethic. He worked since he was 14 and has a hard drive.
3. How he handled his "bachelor pad". Was it decorated? Was it clean? Did he cook actual meals for himself? Basically was he a capable adult taking care of himself or was he going to need someone else to do it?
4. How did he respond when things went awry? Was he to with the flow? Did he struggle to adapt to changing plans?
5. How does he respond to sickness both when I was sick and when he was sick? Did he take care of me? Bring me meds? Tell me to rest? Did he act like a man -baby?
6. How did he support me when I needed it? Did he do what I needed or what HE thought I needed?

Also, not to sound like an ass but I'm a pretty great wife and mom. If you based what you thought I would be like off my mom, you would go running for the hills. I'm great because I worked my butt off to NOT be like her and recover from the trauma of being raised by her. So I'm pretty hesitant to base everything off people's childhoods.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other threads today have me thinking. One person said that you know the kind of partner and father your DH will be based on how their father was when they were growing up. But if you didn’t grow up in the same town, how can you know?

I’m in the middle of a divorce so I’ve been thinking about questions I could have asked to know the truth about STBX and the patterns set by his family of origin:

1) did you eat dinner together as a family? More importantly: at what time? (Turns out that my STBX’s family would sit and wait at the table for my FIL to come home as late as 8:30 pm even when STBX was in 1st or 2nd grade). If I’d probed past my initial question, I would have realized that STbX was raised in a family where everything revolved around FIL and his schedule.

2) did your mom work? When? STBX made a big fuss about his mom’s career but was cagey about key details. I didn’t know until a year before our divorce that she didn’t start working until he was 16, and even then it was part-time and she would drive him to school and pick him up from activities and make all of his meals and do all of what should have been his chores.

3) what were your chores growing up? STBX lied about this so not sure how I could have accounted for his deficits in this area. I wish I had known the truth, which was “none.” His mom did everything until he went away to college because “he needed to focus on his studies.”

4) what did you pay for in high school and college? STBX had a job in college but bent the truth and pretended he worked in Hs, too. He was not responsible for any costs in HS and college and his parents would give him whatever money he wanted. I didn’t know this until we had some major financial disagreements about his personal spending and our joint financial planning. If your spouse has never been responsible for budgeting for their fun, you will have to be the bad guy. Don’t marry someone who never had to pay for anything in HS or college or he’ll never know how to handle discretionary income in a partnership. Don’t marry the baby who spent his summer wages on CDs and concert tickets while you were saving yours for textbooks and rent.

Please add your hard-earned advice here!

That’s so much malarkey. People just like to pretend they have some great wisdom in picking partners, like they earned their great life.

I will say, picking a partner from a wealthy family likely does have a likelihood of better outcomes, as money makes life easier in many ways. But that’s common knowledge, not wisdom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you married wrong.

OP here and well yeah, no kidding. But I’m trying to understand how others could avoid this and what advice I might give to DD one day.

Anonymous wrote:Other threads today have me thinking. One person said that you know the kind of partner and father your DH will be based on how their father was when they were growing up. But if you didn’t grow up in the same town, how can you know?

I’m in the middle of a divorce so I’ve been thinking about questions I could have asked to know the truth about STBX and the patterns set by his family of origin:

1) did you eat dinner together as a family? More importantly: at what time? (Turns out that my STBX’s family would sit and wait at the table for my FIL to come home as late as 8:30 pm even when STBX was in 1st or 2nd grade). If I’d probed past my initial question, I would have realized that STbX was raised in a family where everything revolved around FIL and his schedule.

2) did your mom work? When? STBX made a big fuss about his mom’s career but was cagey about key details. I didn’t know until a year before our divorce that she didn’t start working until he was 16, and even then it was part-time and she would drive him to school and pick him up from activities and make all of his meals and do all of what should have been his chores.

3) what were your chores growing up? STBX lied about this so not sure how I could have accounted for his deficits in this area. I wish I had known the truth, which was “none.” His mom did everything until he went away to college because “he needed to focus on his studies.”

4) what did you pay for in high school and college? STBX had a job in college but bent the truth and pretended he worked in Hs, too. He was not responsible for any costs in HS and college and his parents would give him whatever money he wanted. I didn’t know this until we had some major financial disagreements about his personal spending and our joint financial planning. If your spouse has never been responsible for budgeting for their fun, you will have to be the bad guy. Don’t marry someone who never had to pay for anything in HS or college or he’ll never know how to handle discretionary income in a partnership. Don’t marry the baby who spent his summer wages on CDs and concert tickets while you were saving yours for textbooks and rent.

Please add your hard-earned advice here!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other threads today have me thinking. One person said that you know the kind of partner and father your DH will be based on how their father was when they were growing up. But if you didn’t grow up in the same town, how can you know?

No, not how DH grew up, how DH’s father behaves NOW. That is the future of your DH. Is the dad a grumpy, stingy misanthrope? That’s dh’s future. Is the dad happy and a good partner? Then DH will be too. Is the dad financially responsible and stable? Then most likely DH will be too.

OP and the “now” question is a good one.

And it brings me to a major red flag that I’m not sure how I should have managed: from the day I met him, FIL had dementia and it progressed quickly. So he was just not there, even when he was physically present.

In hindsight, was he always like that, even before dementia? Probably. But I didn’t have any way to truly know and it made sense to assume that it was the dementia that sidelined him, not his own choices. I do think that FIL was just as self-sidelined and uninvolved pre-dementia as he was after it developed. But again, hard to look back and know and hard to investigate at the time.

I think I created a really hopeless thread. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I had it to do again, I would more closely examine my potential FIL's attitude towards fatherhood, housework, and his wife. I too easily dismissed red flags from his behavior because my DH expressed disagreement with and said he wanted to be a different kind of husband and father.

When you have kids, it can be stressful, and there is a tendency to revert to what is familiar. If that's a father who withdraws, never takes initiative, and expects his wife to "mother" him the same way she mothers the kids, then even if your DH is working against that example, there will be times when that's what he does.

My DH does better than his dad did. But his dad was a misogynist who believed a father's role was discipline and nothing else, and that men had no obligations to a household other than working, even if their wives worked. So the bar was extremely low. If I did it again, I'd look for a man whose father raised that bar up off the floor, at least. I'd look for someone with a family dynamic where no one freeloads and everyone contributes, and where people know how to communicate (beyond my FIL, many of the men in my DH's family expect to be cared for by women, whether their wives or their mothers or whoever is around, simply by virtue of being men).

I made a mistake in thinking someone could totally reject their socialization.

The bolded is most men in the world. While the world is rapidly changing, most middle aged people were raised in a very male oriented community. If you were fine being a single parent by choice, your strategy would be fine because you would have been looking for a long time for that man from a progressive family.

There are many men( not enough unfortunately) socialized like you explain who turn out to be much better fathers and husbands. These men are not perfect, because, as you rightly observed, these socialization will rear its ugly head in hard times. However these men are still worth marrying and pooling resources with to raise children.

Anonymous wrote:This is old advice but it’s often true for how he will be in conscious and subconscious ways: How does a man treat his mother ? How did he see his father treat his mother? Was his father an involved and positive influence?