I have a husband with ADHD/ASD and messy, hoarding tendencies.

This is a hill to die on, OP.

A child does NOT clean up after a messy parent. You, as the spouse, since you are OK not divorcing right now, can choose to shoulder some of that burden. But a child should not pay for the ineptitude of a parent.

I would make that clear to him in the harshest of terms. His kids are not his slaves.
In my house, we have had numerous bitter arguments about his habits and the burden it puts on the rest of the household. He lashes out, he gaslights, he has tantrums. I will not budge when it comes to protecting my children.

Anonymous wrote:If everyone is cleaning up after themselves you wouldn’t need anyone to do the dishes everyone would do their own dishes. Make that the rule.

THIS

Anonymous wrote:In our house, we clean up together or split the chores. However, with someone like him, this won’t work. Rotating won’t work either. The only thing that may work is cleaning together, and giving him specific chores you can monitor- you wipe table while I fill dishwasher- if that doesn’t work -You will have to clean up after him. He’s your spouse. Don’t let her do it.

+1 to this. I like getting my kids involved in cleaning with me - and that might mean they clean up after someone who is not themselves. However if we're all contributing it doesn't really matter who's cleaning up who's mess.

But if he's not contributing, that's not something I would put on a teen.

OP, a good book for you and your DH to read is How to Keep House While Drowning. If it’s hard for him to read, listen to it on Audible.

It’s written by a therapist who has ADHD herself and experienced post-partum depression. It will give your DH some help in understanding where he may be stuck. It will help you understand better what he’s barriers he’s facing.

They should clean together.

I appreciate the compassion a PP had for OP’s DH but I think the fact he’s “dealing” with it by trying to pawn it off on your DD is absolutely inexcusable. I would 100 percent draw a red line at that (and I’d be furious).

If you were doing these chores before and now no longer are willing to because he’s home and not working, that’s very understandable but likely stings a little bit. We have a wonderful neighbor who is unemployed and I know he treats applying for work like a job and tries to keep similar boundaries in place both to keep himself moving but also to not go crazy and I have really respected his approach. I would make it clear to your DD this is not her problem to solve, and let her know the two of you will work with a professional on a plan.

Then I’d go back to therapy and calmly explain what happened and how putting this on your daughter is a nonstarter and frame this more as something like “I have always hated this, I am at my breaking point and it seems to me that you have the ability right better now and I really need you to try”. Then support him however you can with EF coaching etc (which might make him more efficient during the day too!)

FWIW our situation is not the same but I have strong feelings because my DD was diagnosed with ADHD and it was during that process we basically all realized my DH very likely has it too. I have done a lot of scaffolding for both of them and lately I’ve seen some real improvements in my husband’s ability to set up systems that make him efficient and effective. We do tons of checklists, alarms on phones, reminders and write absolutely everything down. I think he actually feels a lot happier and calmer now that’s he’s not missing things and feeling like he’s messed up.

He doesn’t mind cleaning as much as your husband but he has very little ability to kind of just keep things clean (which frustrates me because we sometimes work from home on the same days and I do little bits all day but he just generates more dishes most of the time. It has to be CLEAN UP TIME and he usually listens to stand up comedy or something in the background to make it more palatable. Perhaps rather than keeping the kitchen clean you could ask that at x time he goes and cleans up the day? I think the idea of keeping a space clean indefinitely feels impossible to some people.

Anonymous wrote:Just to clarify, he makes food for himself, not the family?

He is home all day and will make himself breakfast, snacks, lunch and tea and all of these plates and pans are in the sink when I get home, kitchen counters are not wiped down and floor full of crumbs. Before he was laid off, he worked from home, so same thing but I kind of “ate” it then because he had a really demanding job.

Anonymous wrote:You aren't wrong. My dad was like this -- believed it was the job if the kids to keep everything clean. He's even "joke" that that was why they'd had kids.

Tell your DH this will ruin his relationship with his daughter. It's fine to expect her to do chores but she isn't his maid.

I agree with this. My dad was the same way and my sister and I haven’t spoken to him in 14 years. My 15 year old cleans up after herself only. We all do. Sometimes she will spray and wipe down the counters or kitchen table for disinfecting purposes as a chore but no visible mess. No one should have to clean up the cooking mess someone else made.

You aren't wrong. My dad was like this -- believed it was the job if the kids to keep everything clean. He's even "joke" that that was why they'd had kids.

Tell your DH this will ruin his relationship with his daughter. It's fine to expect her to do chores but she isn't his maid.

Just to clarify, he makes food for himself, not the family?

You are not wrong. No one should have to clean up that type of kitchen mess (IMO) that anyone else made. That is just disrespectful to leave.

Now- doing dishes (that have been rinsed or are immediately after a meal)? Of course. Unloading dishwasher and putting away? Of course. Wiping down or lightly scrubbing counters and other items? Of course.

But dirty pans or things that have been sitting out with food, or not rinsed: no. Dirty appliances that would’ve taken 2 minutes to clean if done immediately? NO. Rude, disrespectful and gross.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone is cleaning up after themselves you wouldn’t need anyone to do the dishes everyone would do their own dishes. Make that the rule.

I was the first person to respond. Everyone cleans up after themselves in my house, but there are still pots, serving dishes, etc. someone has to wash those, unload the dishwasher, etc. again, I'm fine with that, but your husband sounds lazy/depressed/adhd. Whenever I point out my dh's deficiencies around stuff like this, he lashes out.

This is OP. He has ADHD and is depressed and is medicated for both. But the messiness/disorganization still persists.

As someone who has ADHD and went through a period of severe depression after being laid off a job, medication is not going to fix his weaknesses in relation to chores.

Right now, he’s got major challenges with executive functioning and task execution because of the double whammy of ADHD and depression. Yelling at him isn’t going to help either. I know it’s hard, but please be as patient and compassionate with him as you can be.

I don’t know your husband‘s other history, but people with ADHD often have a history of being told that they are stupid and lazy and there’s a lot of trauma around that kind of labeling.Think of it as someone being neurodivergent and unable to process the many micro decisions required to stay on top of household chores.

What he needs is help. Ask him to work with an EF coach that has experience with adult ADHD. I know it sounds ridiculous, but what seems very easy to someone who doesn’t have ADHD and depression can seem like climbing Mount Everest for someone who does. Your husband may need someone to literally coach him on how to handle daily chores.

However, his disability does not mean that your daughter should be taking care of things for him. As others have said, she should be participating in household chores, but should not be responsible for cleaning up the messes that he makes.

If it helps at all, I found it easier to deal with chores once I got another job and my depression lifted. Hope that’s true for your husband, too.

This is OP. This is very helpful - thank you. And you are right - he did not get diagnosed with ADHD until after college but had been criticized by his parents for being lazy and is very sensitive about it. When he was finally treated, he went from getting Cs in grad school to straight A’s and this is was in an already highly challenging filed of study. My DD also has ADHD (also medicated) and exhibits many of his same symptoms, so I am especially not trying to make her life even more difficult and overwhelming by adding his responsibilities to her plate.

Happy it was helpful. I really empathize with your DS because I wasn’t diagnosed until college either. I’m 2E, gifted and ADD with no hyperactivity (the old form of the diagnosis). Got good grades and was able to compensate for the ADD academically,

My parents couldn’t figure out why I had so much trouble with keeping my room clean, keeping track of my stuff, getting to things on time, etc. I remember my mother screaming at me that I was lazy and doing things just to annoy her. The more she yelled the more paralyzed I got.

My DH was so patient with me during the worst of my depression. He knew I was hyper self-critical already and loading on would only add to my paralysis. It is really hard for loved ones of people like me. Please try to remember that we’re not doing it on purpose. Our brains just work differently.

That said, I’ve never asked someone else to clean up after me. I just locked into finding ways of addressing my issues with help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone is cleaning up after themselves you wouldn’t need anyone to do the dishes everyone would do their own dishes. Make that the rule.

I was the first person to respond. Everyone cleans up after themselves in my house, but there are still pots, serving dishes, etc. someone has to wash those, unload the dishwasher, etc. again, I'm fine with that, but your husband sounds lazy/depressed/adhd. Whenever I point out my dh's deficiencies around stuff like this, he lashes out.

This is OP. He has ADHD and is depressed and is medicated for both. But the messiness/disorganization still persists.

That's probably a big part of the problem. Those meds are draining and will ruin people.

Was he like this when you married him? If so, then it seems like you would have accepted this flaw by now.

If he wasn't like this years ago, but is now, then see the first part about the medications and weaning him off them.

This is OP. He was not like this when I married him but we did not have 2 kids or a house out in the far flung suburbs. It wasn’t until he was attempting to “juggle it all” that everything fell apart. He has been medicated for ADHD since before I met him. Depression medication started a couple of years ago after a parent’s death.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everyone is cleaning up after themselves you wouldn’t need anyone to do the dishes everyone would do their own dishes. Make that the rule.

I was the first person to respond. Everyone cleans up after themselves in my house, but there are still pots, serving dishes, etc. someone has to wash those, unload the dishwasher, etc. again, I'm fine with that, but your husband sounds lazy/depressed/adhd. Whenever I point out my dh's deficiencies around stuff like this, he lashes out.

This is OP. He has ADHD and is depressed and is medicated for both. But the messiness/disorganization still persists.

As someone who has ADHD and went through a period of severe depression after being laid off a job, medication is not going to fix his weaknesses in relation to chores.

Right now, he’s got major challenges with executive functioning and task execution because of the double whammy of ADHD and depression. Yelling at him isn’t going to help either. I know it’s hard, but please be as patient and compassionate with him as you can be.

I don’t know your husband‘s other history, but people with ADHD often have a history of being told that they are stupid and lazy and there’s a lot of trauma around that kind of labeling.Think of it as someone being neurodivergent and unable to process the many micro decisions required to stay on top of household chores.

What he needs is help. Ask him to work with an EF coach that has experience with adult ADHD. I know it sounds ridiculous, but what seems very easy to someone who doesn’t have ADHD and depression can seem like climbing Mount Everest for someone who does. Your husband may need someone to literally coach him on how to handle daily chores.

However, his disability does not mean that your daughter should be taking care of things for him. As others have said, she should be participating in household chores, but should not be responsible for cleaning up the messes that he makes.

If it helps at all, I found it easier to deal with chores once I got another job and my depression lifted. Hope that’s true for your husband, too.

This is OP. This is very helpful - thank you. And you are right - he did not get diagnosed with ADHD until after college but had been criticized by his parents for being lazy and is very sensitive about it. When he was finally treated, he went from getting Cs in grad school to straight A’s and this is was in an already highly challenging filed of study. My DD also has ADHD (also medicated) and exhibits many of his same symptoms, so I am especially not trying to make her life even more difficult and overwhelming by adding his responsibilities to her plate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She’s 15 she should’ve been doing this since she was 5. Stop coddling her.

Found the deadbeat alcoholic loser.

Found the wife that can’t care for her man!