Anonymous
Post 06/12/2025 16:01     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
I do automation for an MCSL team. We "seed" time trials using whatever old times we have and give everyone else NT. Then I seed the meet. I'll mix anything I really need to mix to save time (if there are 2 boys and 2 girls in 8U fly, we're swimming it mixed). It prints out separately anyway.

We will put out a TT meet program and then post results for our families. I never send out heat sheets. No one needs them.

We get through TT in about 2.5 hours. Our team has about 140 swimmers. I forget how many made it to TT this year, but it was well attended.

B meets are also seeded. Deck entering that many kids would make me run screaming from the deck. Things would get lost. I can handle a few scratches and deck entries, but more than that just isn't fair to the automation crew. (Or the swimmers, whose times will get lost.)
Anonymous
Post 06/10/2025 10:00     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Anonymous wrote:MCSL pool. TT is treated like all other meets, have to declare swimmers by Thursday, heat sheets sent Friday night. Ever person is given NT as their time and lanes/heats are randomly assigned for the most part. This seems like the fairest, most efficient way to do it. Teams has about 200 kids. Takes about 3.5-4 hours.


Our MCSL pool treats TT like any other meet as well, declaring swimmers by Thursday and heat sheets sent out Friday as well. We do seed swimmers if they have times from last year.
Anonymous
Post 06/10/2025 09:55     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Anonymous wrote:We're MCSL and always seed our B meets. Very few no-shows on our team, and everything just clocks along. There's sometimes a little chaos if other teams have more absences, but it's a lot easier to work out if there are already lists of who's supposed to be in that heat in the first place. I have trouble imagining how to run a B meet _without_ having a heat sheet in advance, so I have even more respect for those clerks of course now.


I think all/most MCLS teams use automation for B meets now. I've been a swim team mom for 20+ years, and when we first started there would be teams who weren't automating B meets. It did not seem complicated at the time (because people were used to it), but, now it seems impossible to manage.
Anonymous
Post 06/10/2025 09:53     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
/starts
Anonymous
Post 06/10/2025 09:52     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, OKM does. OKM uses heat sheets for every meet, from TT to B meets.


Nice how long does it take to do entire time trials from 8 and under 15-18 all 4 strokes + IM?


We have 170ish on our teams and use heat sheets for all meets. Time Trials with 4 strokes + IM runs from 4 hours and 15 minutes to 4 and half hours depending on DQs.

Obviously the size of the team makes a difference. We also start the meet earlier than 9 am.


Your referee needs to move the meet along faster. We have more than that and ran everything including IM in 3 hours, despite the weather.

DQs should not slow things down. It’s not an A Dual meet. Just pick them up after the last heat of each event. If there’s any doubt pocket the call. Or get a chief judge.


I'd respectfully push back on thr DQs: B meets are often where new officials get their stats, and they need those consults with the referee to get better at their jobs. And B meet swimmers need the technique improvements that come with properly acknowledged DQs, so they shouldn't be skipped or minimized.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2025 21:19     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, OKM does. OKM uses heat sheets for every meet, from TT to B meets.


Nice how long does it take to do entire time trials from 8 and under 15-18 all 4 strokes + IM?


We have 170ish on our teams and use heat sheets for all meets. Time Trials with 4 strokes + IM runs from 4 hours and 15 minutes to 4 and half hours depending on DQs.

Obviously the size of the team makes a difference. We also start the meet earlier than 9 am.


Your referee needs to move the meet along faster. We have more than that and ran everything including IM in 3 hours, despite the weather.

DQs should not slow things down. It’s not an A Dual meet. Just pick them up after the last heat of each event. If there’s any doubt pocket the call. Or get a chief judge.


We do that with B meets. But Time Trials we run like an A meet so all the officials can do it correctly.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2025 21:01     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, OKM does. OKM uses heat sheets for every meet, from TT to B meets.


Nice how long does it take to do entire time trials from 8 and under 15-18 all 4 strokes + IM?


We have 170ish on our teams and use heat sheets for all meets. Time Trials with 4 strokes + IM runs from 4 hours and 15 minutes to 4 and half hours depending on DQs.

Obviously the size of the team makes a difference. We also start the meet earlier than 9 am.


Your referee needs to move the meet along faster. We have more than that and ran everything including IM in 3 hours, despite the weather.

DQs should not slow things down. It’s not an A Dual meet. Just pick them up after the last heat of each event. If there’s any doubt pocket the call. Or get a chief judge.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2025 20:54     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
We're MCSL and always seed our B meets. Very few no-shows on our team, and everything just clocks along. There's sometimes a little chaos if other teams have more absences, but it's a lot easier to work out if there are already lists of who's supposed to be in that heat in the first place. I have trouble imagining how to run a B meet _without_ having a heat sheet in advance, so I have even more respect for those clerks of course now.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2025 12:57     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We don't Last year for the first time they gave us a list of names for everyone in a particular age group and stroke. Ex. 9-10 Girls a list of 12 names. It was a big help in that it let us figure a total number of heats. Less late entrants.

This year there is supposed to be absolutely no day of entries. There will be scratches but it often doesn't change the number of heats.

Thank you for the insights. In this scenario, it would be referred to as "heats on demand," where the clerk of course is responsible for reviewing each swimmer's time and assigning them to appropriate heats and lanes. However, in cases of bad weather, a heat sheet might be a more efficient solution. If the clerk of course notices multiple heats with several no-shows, they could have the discretion to combine heats. While this approach could streamline the process, it also has the potential to cause confusion. Personally, I would prefer having a heat sheet, especially in adverse weather conditions. If it’s raining, it would save children from waiting in the cold while clerks and representatives organize heats. That said, it’s also frustrating to see two heats of 8-and-under freestyle with only 1-2 participants each due to no-shows.s.


I was going to suggest this. B-meets last year were a bust for us, two thunderstorm rainouts. We're a big club so we do internal meets more often than not. So basically, just one real B-meet. At least one of those could have been saved with deck seeding IMO. So that B-meet kids could have gotten a little more competition. Our kids also have many kids on the bubble for A-meets and were looking to improve their times, and were just basically denied.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2025 09:44     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, OKM does. OKM uses heat sheets for every meet, from TT to B meets.


Nice how long does it take to do entire time trials from 8 and under 15-18 all 4 strokes + IM?


We have 170ish on our teams and use heat sheets for all meets. Time Trials with 4 strokes + IM runs from 4 hours and 15 minutes to 4 and half hours depending on DQs.

Obviously the size of the team makes a difference. We also start the meet earlier than 9 am.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2025 09:32     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Reading these threads continues to blow my mind. We seed our time trials (times from last year or NT) and have heat sheets sent out Friday evening. They're also all loaded into Meet Mobile (with MM updated during TT).

There maybe were a few no shows, but by and large the heats were full (or combined in a couple instances). No IM, but coaches had all swimmers do all four strokes (they could do legally - so a lot of 8&u just did free and back). 175ish person team and we finished in just under 3 hours.

So results are in MM, posted on the pool house, and sent out by coaches on Sunday.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2025 11:26     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
Anonymous wrote:We got through time trials in [EDIT: 2.8 hours] even with a 40 minute rain delay. We had about 130 swimmers. We had some older swimmers out (not sure how many, maybe 20?). I heard parents saying that the SAT for sophomores and juniors was yesterday. Our team uses heat sheets and combines genders and 13-18 kids. Our officials are top notch and run meets like PVS. (I half expected dive-over starts, ha ha.) There were only a few empty lanes.


EDIT: **2.8 hours** (2 hours, 40 minutes minus 40 minute thunder delay)
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2025 11:24     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
We got through time trials in 2.2 hours even with a 40 minute rain delay. We had about 130 swimmers. We had some older swimmers out (not sure how many, maybe 20?). I heard parents saying that the SAT for sophomores and juniors was yesterday. Our team uses heat sheets and combines genders and 13-18 kids. Our officials are top notch and run meets like PVS. (I half expected dive-over starts, ha ha.) There were only a few empty lanes.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2025 08:35     Subject: Time Trials - Heat sheets?
MCSL pool. TT is treated like all other meets, have to declare swimmers by Thursday, heat sheets sent Friday night. Ever person is given NT as their time and lanes/heats are randomly assigned for the most part. This seems like the fairest, most efficient way to do it. Teams has about 200 kids. Takes about 3.5-4 hours.