Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AO this isn’t a question

For a comparable school? How long ago? Do they have AO contacts? It is a question.

They don't. If your counselor was only a reader (and not AO) more than 10 years ago, they are kind of irrelevant to know how that school's process works. However, if they have a LARGE flow of applications, they should know what works and what doesn't in the modern application era.

They will know that Harvard likes leadership (both in and esp outside of school ("unusual achievement") plus, they are looking for truly outstanding qualities of character (courage and compassion, maturity, genuineness, humility and resiliency); while Yale is heavily focused on community (remember the 4 year res college), an interdisciplinary liberal arts approach to learning and those LOR (along with evidence for social impact and inclusion) while Princeton searches for innovative applicants who think first and foremost about their community.

There are obv hundreds of other schools, but your CC should be able to look at your kid's profile and suggest colleges where there is more natural alignment than you might think.

Is there one place where all of this info is stored or do you have to sift/search for it? Is that the only real benefit of a counselor ?

It's mostly BS though. For example: Kid who just got into both Harvard and Yale for our school is both highly exceptional and mega-talented, and not at all interdisciplinary, not into community, and (although an impressive person) not particularly noteworthy from a character perspective.

At our school the kind of kid who is likely to get into Harvard is also likely to get into Yale. And vice versa.

The Yale kids at our school never ever get into Harvard. They do get into Stanford (sometimes). Harvard kids do get into Princeton or MIT. Never Yale. Very distinct.

Could it be that your school's guidance counseling office is steering these patterns, through their advice or the letters they write? They don't hold with the schools or students I am familiar with.

We see a lot of Stanford /Yale overlap at our non-DMV private. Similarly a lot of Harvard/Princeton overlap.

Other overlaps:
Northwestern/Duke/Vanderbilt
Yale/Dartmouth/Duke
Yale/Brown
Michigan/Cornell/Northwestern

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AO this isn’t a question

For a comparable school? How long ago? Do they have AO contacts? It is a question.

They don't. If your counselor was only a reader (and not AO) more than 10 years ago, they are kind of irrelevant to know how that school's process works. However, if they have a LARGE flow of applications, they should know what works and what doesn't in the modern application era.

They will know that Harvard likes leadership (both in and esp outside of school ("unusual achievement") plus, they are looking for truly outstanding qualities of character (courage and compassion, maturity, genuineness, humility and resiliency); while Yale is heavily focused on community (remember the 4 year res college), an interdisciplinary liberal arts approach to learning and those LOR (along with evidence for social impact and inclusion) while Princeton searches for innovative applicants who think first and foremost about their community.

There are obv hundreds of other schools, but your CC should be able to look at your kid's profile and suggest colleges where there is more natural alignment than you might think.

Is there one place where all of this info is stored or do you have to sift/search for it? Is that the only real benefit of a counselor ?

It's mostly BS though. For example: Kid who just got into both Harvard and Yale for our school is both highly exceptional and mega-talented, and not at all interdisciplinary, not into community, and (although an impressive person) not particularly noteworthy from a character perspective.

At our school the kind of kid who is likely to get into Harvard is also likely to get into Yale. And vice versa.

The Yale kids at our school never ever get into Harvard. They do get into Stanford (sometimes). Harvard kids do get into Princeton or MIT. Never Yale. Very distinct.

Could it be that your school's guidance counseling office is steering these patterns, through their advice or the letters they write? They don't hold with the schools or students I am familiar with.

Here is my advice:

- ask for referrals for families with a kid who are attending/were accepted at some of the schools in your kid’s radar, and if they are legit counselors they can provide a couple quickly. If the MBB counselor is very successful with admits and her referrals sound sincere (which will also include people giving real feedback on the shortcomings…if the referrals are just 100% super positive that is a red flag), then I wouldn’t focus to much on the background;

- we were referred to someone who had been Director of Admissions at a private college ranked top 50. She was great in organizing ECs (I guess there is a science as to the order they are listed), tweaking the 150 character blurbs, answering the Why school X question, helping with personal statement, etc. and giving some background about how she and others think about applications;

- She was also honest about not being an expert on admissions for every school…which worsens the further you are out, but she attends many conferences where they talk with admissions officers from many schools;

- She also call it had a stable of about 100 schools (yeah…mainly if ranked by US News with LACs also in the list…but also like 10 schools she thought were somewhat overlooked gems) with an encyclopedic knowledge of unique programs (interesting majors, accelerated masters, etc.) that may be a fit for our kid which then of course makes the why school X answer more interesting than something generic (and cuts down significantly on the amount of research parents and kids have to do).

The last bullet to us was a big perk and not something we really knew or appreciated until we were in it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AO this isn’t a question

For a comparable school? How long ago? Do they have AO contacts? It is a question.

They don't. If your counselor was only a reader (and not AO) more than 10 years ago, they are kind of irrelevant to know how that school's process works. However, if they have a LARGE flow of applications, they should know what works and what doesn't in the modern application era.

They will know that Harvard likes leadership (both in and esp outside of school ("unusual achievement") plus, they are looking for truly outstanding qualities of character (courage and compassion, maturity, genuineness, humility and resiliency); while Yale is heavily focused on community (remember the 4 year res college), an interdisciplinary liberal arts approach to learning and those LOR (along with evidence for social impact and inclusion) while Princeton searches for innovative applicants who think first and foremost about their community.

There are obv hundreds of other schools, but your CC should be able to look at your kid's profile and suggest colleges where there is more natural alignment than you might think.

It’s not uncommon for an unhooked kid who is accepted to one of the above REA, to get accepted to the other two as well RD if they apply.

So, not sure if what you describe above is actually particularly unique for each of the three schools, or you are just saying a good counselor will advise differently for each application.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's your goal?

If it's school selection, you want someone who knows a ton about colleges. This could be an AO, or not.

If it's to keep your kid on schedule completing the application, rapport and "getting" the kid is essential.

Counselors do not perform special magic. They don't know the inside of many admissions office intimately (at best they have contacts/experience at a handful). Think about what you hope to gain and go for the person who can provide that.

And think HARD about whether it's worth the fee. I know some extraordinarily busy, high-earning parents who felt it was worth paying for someone else to manage the process. A law partner or investment banker might not have time to dig into the weeds of the Common App, and frankly $10k or $15k is a rounding error for them anyway.

If that's not you, just do it yourself.

Cost wise you're probably looking more than double these figures

You could pay $10k or $20k depending on many factors. But the successful bankers and lawyers I know make millions every year. The difference between a one time expense of $10k vs $20k isn't really a difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's your goal?

If it's school selection, you want someone who knows a ton about colleges. This could be an AO, or not.

If it's to keep your kid on schedule completing the application, rapport and "getting" the kid is essential.

Counselors do not perform special magic. They don't know the inside of many admissions office intimately (at best they have contacts/experience at a handful). Think about what you hope to gain and go for the person who can provide that.

And think HARD about whether it's worth the fee. I know some extraordinarily busy, high-earning parents who felt it was worth paying for someone else to manage the process. A law partner or investment banker might not have time to dig into the weeds of the Common App, and frankly $10k or $15k is a rounding error for them anyway.

If that's not you, just do it yourself.

Cost wise you're probably looking more than double these figures

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AO this isn’t a question

For a comparable school? How long ago? Do they have AO contacts? It is a question.

They don't. If your counselor was only a reader (and not AO) more than 10 years ago, they are kind of irrelevant to know how that school's process works. However, if they have a LARGE flow of applications, they should know what works and what doesn't in the modern application era.

They will know that Harvard likes leadership (both in and esp outside of school ("unusual achievement") plus, they are looking for truly outstanding qualities of character (courage and compassion, maturity, genuineness, humility and resiliency); while Yale is heavily focused on community (remember the 4 year res college), an interdisciplinary liberal arts approach to learning and those LOR (along with evidence for social impact and inclusion) while Princeton searches for innovative applicants who think first and foremost about their community.

There are obv hundreds of other schools, but your CC should be able to look at your kid's profile and suggest colleges where there is more natural alignment than you might think.

Is there one place where all of this info is stored or do you have to sift/search for it? Is that the only real benefit of a counselor ?

It's mostly BS though. For example: Kid who just got into both Harvard and Yale for our school is both highly exceptional and mega-talented, and not at all interdisciplinary, not into community, and (although an impressive person) not particularly noteworthy from a character perspective.

At our school the kind of kid who is likely to get into Harvard is also likely to get into Yale. And vice versa.

The Yale kids at our school never ever get into Harvard. They do get into Stanford (sometimes). Harvard kids do get into Princeton or MIT. Never Yale. Very distinct.

Anonymous wrote:btw "strategy" is pretty much always "apply ED to a school you're pretty likely to get into"

Yup. That’s what they’ll recommend. There are no secret workarounds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:btw "strategy" is pretty much always "apply ED to a school you're pretty likely to get into"

what? not if you are applying to very competitive schools that are considered reaches for anyone. People apply ED because it might increase their chances. But it doesn't make a reach likely.

Most of them will encourage you to ED to a target. Or University of Chicago or Tulane.