Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many of you have the wrong (in my opinion!) idea of what's going on with tween development. It's an awkward time in every developmental way. Most of these tweens will become lovely teens, and nearly all will become lovely adults.

That’s nice for them. I think most of us ran into people like this in school and we don’t really care how these people turned out later. But we remember them clearly and vowed to never name our kids that same name due to the negative association.

News flash: somewhere in your life, you too have hurt someone else. That’s just reality. None of us is perfect.

Proceed with caution.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think we should be teaching girls forgiveness.
Because despite what people claim it sets them up for continued abuse.


Considering this girl is still hanging out with bullies it doesn't seem like her apology is sincere.

I don't think you need to do or say anything about it specifically beyond asking how she feels about the apology

Sorry, the bolded is just stupid. Forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetting. You can forgive someone and just move on, not go back to the way things were.

If you teach your girls that forgiveness is bad, just bear in mind that this means they will also be learning that *they’re* not worthy of forgiveness either. Better hope your daughters never screw up!

But That's exactly how it translates in real life.
And you are in no place to lecture anyone given you can't explain a point without abusive language.
That you are so invested in insisting that a bully is entitled to forgiveness makes me think you or your daughter are bullies.
Contrary to your believe intentionally hurting someone is not a required milestone.

And yet you didn’t respond to my point about what your attitude is actually teaching your own daughter. I think this is the sort of rigidity that can drive kids to self harm, as much as I’m sure you don’t want to hear that. Because once again, you are literally teaching your child that there is never a way to make up for or move on from a mistake, and your child will undoubtedly make a mistake someday (because she is human, and we all do). And if she is smart she’ll know she can’t talk to you about it.

Anonymous wrote:I think many of you have the wrong (in my opinion!) idea of what's going on with tween development. It's an awkward time in every developmental way. Most of these tweens will become lovely teens, and nearly all will become lovely adults.

That’s nice for them. I think most of us ran into people like this in school and we don’t really care how these people turned out later. But we remember them clearly and vowed to never name our kids that same name due to the negative association.

Anonymous wrote:I think many of you have the wrong (in my opinion!) idea of what's going on with tween development. It's an awkward time in every developmental way. Most of these tweens will become lovely teens, and nearly all will become lovely adults.

Agree!

My DD and I were both burned in 6/7 grade. I remember that hurt remarkably well. I have so much empathy for the ones who also were hurt, but these are kids who are going to make mistakes. That's expected.

If you teach your daughters to take a scorched earth policy on anyone who ever wrongs them, you're setting her up for a tough life!

It makes sense to be cautious after someone wrongs you, but people do change, especially in those tween/teen years.

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy to me how so many of you are modeling to your kids that one can never make a mistake, make amends, and be forgiven.

It is perfectly reasonable for the bullied girl to not be friends with this girl anymore (and it is healthy for kids to learn that when you destroy trust in a relationship you can’t get it back), but to forever brand a middle school girl who has seen the error of her ways and is trying to do the right thing with the scarlet “MG” is not right.

+1

OP's DD certainly has no obligation to be friends with anyone but the idea that the old friend is genuinely sorry is not out of the realm of possibility. OP's DD seems to be rather strict in who she rejects. This situation arose out of her choice originally that she didn't want to be friends with the "popular" girl, and the other girls choosing sides and taking it too far. If the popular girl and the apologizing old friend are people she doesn't want to associate with, so be it but it shouldn't be cast as an act of moral superiority. Teenage girls make lots of mistakes, and many evolve to be better than those mistakes.

How nice for the bully to not have consequences for their behavior. The target deserves friends that are trustworthy and reliable. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. The bully can be forgiven but is certainly not owed friendship.

I think many of you have the wrong (in my opinion!) idea of what's going on with tween development. It's an awkward time in every developmental way. Most of these tweens will become lovely teens, and nearly all will become lovely adults.

Anonymous wrote:This kind of stuff is not simply “a mistake.” It’s consciously mean, plain and simple. A tween knows when they are being mean. DD can thank for the apology in order to let it go from her own psyche but not rekindle or trust this girl again. Hopefully DD has enough new friends that she doesn’t need a one more who is, at best, of questionable trustworthiness.

Mean girl will hopefully learn that her actions have consequences and a too little too late apology can’t always undo the “mistake.”

Exactly - Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think we should be teaching girls forgiveness.
Because despite what people claim it sets them up for continued abuse.


Considering this girl is still hanging out with bullies it doesn't seem like her apology is sincere.

I don't think you need to do or say anything about it specifically beyond asking how she feels about the apology

Sorry, the bolded is just stupid. Forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetting. You can forgive someone and just move on, not go back to the way things were.

If you teach your girls that forgiveness is bad, just bear in mind that this means they will also be learning that *they’re* not worthy of forgiveness either. Better hope your daughters never screw up!

But That's exactly how it translates in real life.
And you are in no place to lecture anyone given you can't explain a point without abusive language.
That you are so invested in insisting that a bully is entitled to forgiveness makes me think you or your daughter are bullies.
Contrary to your believe intentionally hurting someone is not a required milestone.

This happened to me a gazillion years ago. The whole pack of girls apologized, they just got bored with their bullying I guess and the ringleader ultimately ditched them all and in HS became one of my best friends and is now the only person I keep in touch with. Why do I share this? People change. I’d advise her that hopefully the apology gives her some peace, but she should proceed cautiously. People need to earn trust, actions speak louder than words, etc. Has she found other friends she truly likes, then great, and if not, she should keep looking. (I had only found placeholders and really needed HS to get a new group). Maybe this friend could be a friend again, but it’s ok if the hurt makes that seem not possible or she’s just over her.

This kind of stuff is not simply “a mistake.” It’s consciously mean, plain and simple. A tween knows when they are being mean. DD can thank for the apology in order to let it go from her own psyche but not rekindle or trust this girl again. Hopefully DD has enough new friends that she doesn’t need a one more who is, at best, of questionable trustworthiness.

Mean girl will hopefully learn that her actions have consequences and a too little too late apology can’t always undo the “mistake.”

I'm another who had this happen to a daughter; it really affected her mental health for a few years. It says something that someone apologized, though -- maybe for self-serving reasons, who really knows?

I agree with others that it's best to listen to what your daughter has to say. Pretend you're a therapist -- questions and understanding, but try your best not to offer advice unless she asks. And then maybe couch it in "Hmm, have you though of..." terms vs. "You should..." It's fine for her to accept the apology and still not pursue the friendship; it's difficult to forget when a friend breaks your trust like that. You're always waiting for other other shoe to drop.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think we should be teaching girls forgiveness.
Because despite what people claim it sets them up for continued abuse.


Considering this girl is still hanging out with bullies it doesn't seem like her apology is sincere.

I don't think you need to do or say anything about it specifically beyond asking how she feels about the apology

Sorry, the bolded is just stupid. Forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetting. You can forgive someone and just move on, not go back to the way things were.

If you teach your girls that forgiveness is bad, just bear in mind that this means they will also be learning that *they’re* not worthy of forgiveness either. Better hope your daughters never screw up!

I don't think we should be teaching girls forgiveness.
Because despite what people claim it sets them up for continued abuse.


Considering this girl is still hanging out with bullies it doesn't seem like her apology is sincere.

I don't think you need to do or say anything about it specifically beyond asking how she feels about the apology