Anonymous
08/17/2024 22:58
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Anonymous wrote:I know a hoarder divorced mom. Apparently it got worse after divorce (only met her afterwards). When her kids got older, there was more push back on going, but if you have kids that can’t brush their own teeth, you have a long way to go to let them decide where to live. It might be worth consulting a lawyer.
+1
When the hoarder mom I knew got divorced it just got worse. The husband even just gave her the house because he didn’t want to deal with cleaning it out. There were just stacks and stacks of magazines and newspapers (she created a pathway to walk through), so many freaking birds in cages, etc. It was just wild.
Anonymous
08/17/2024 19:57
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Anonymous wrote:Living in that level of uncleanness sounds like a mental health issue. Is there some reason that he likes to keep dirty dishes and a filthy bathroom? Has he always been this way or is it recent?
That was my gut reaction too that something deeper is going on beyond just laziness.
Anonymous
08/17/2024 18:31
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
I'm a mental health professional. This doesn't sound like ADHD to me. My husband is a law partner and has raging ADHD. Having ADHD doesn't mean you are incapable of basic hygiene. Has he ever seen a counselor or psychiatrist? Was he like this when you were dating? There's much more to the story here.
Anonymous
08/17/2024 14:42
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Living in that level of uncleanness sounds like a mental health issue. Is there some reason that he likes to keep dirty dishes and a filthy bathroom? Has he always been this way or is it recent?
Anonymous
08/16/2024 21:36
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Just hire a weekly cleaner for him and factor it into child support.
Anonymous
08/16/2024 21:34
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Things must have changed drastically from the time I was a cleaning person in college. We routinely picked up, did laundry and dishes, etc. I'm sure that if you asked around, you could find a cleaning person. It would be far cheaper than divorce, and you would have more control, and less disruption for your kids.
Anonymous
08/16/2024 21:17
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Hire a cleaning person and have your kids take out the garbage and do dishes as part of their chores. Your kids do have chores, right? Everyone in the family should be pitching in to keep things running smoothly. If you don't teach them to do chores they will probably pick up your husband's habits.
Anonymous
08/16/2024 21:12
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Op when did you find out? What made you have a second kid?
Anonymous
08/16/2024 20:56
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
I would stay married for the kids in this scenario. Actually, while my husband doesn't have quite the same issues, I have stayed for the kids because he is unable to care for them.
But consult a lawyer anyway, and ask how old the kids need to be when they can decide who to live with. Because you only need to stay until then. Presumably, by that age, they'll choose to live with you, or be able to clean their own spaces, cook their own meals, do their own laundry, etc, when they're at their father's.
But consult a lawyer anyway, and ask how old the kids need to be when they can decide who to live with. Because you only need to stay until then. Presumably, by that age, they'll choose to live with you, or be able to clean their own spaces, cook their own meals, do their own laundry, etc, when they're at their father's.
Anonymous
08/16/2024 20:50
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Courts don’t enforce cleanliness. Only DCFS does and it has to be horrible before they will intervene.
This is not a divorce worthy issue (albeit annoying). Make him see a therapist to investigate depression and or ADHD.
Does he have a stable job? You said he’s a good dad. Focus on the positive if you can
This is not a divorce worthy issue (albeit annoying). Make him see a therapist to investigate depression and or ADHD.
Does he have a stable job? You said he’s a good dad. Focus on the positive if you can
Anonymous
08/16/2024 19:44
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
I know a hoarder divorced mom. Apparently it got worse after divorce (only met her afterwards). When her kids got older, there was more push back on going, but if you have kids that can’t brush their own teeth, you have a long way to go to let them decide where to live. It might be worth consulting a lawyer.
Anonymous
08/16/2024 19:36
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Anonymous wrote:Hiring a weekly cleaning person will be SO MUCH CHEAPER THAN DIVORCE!
+1. We pay 180 to clean a large house. I bet if you paid double they would tidy up before cleaning.
Anonymous
08/16/2024 13:52
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
I mean if he's not doing it now it's hard to to imagine him suddenly caring about his surroundings/kids' hygiene just because some lawyers put that language in a divorce agreement.
That said, what a terrible situation and I feel for you, OP.
That said, what a terrible situation and I feel for you, OP.
Anonymous
08/16/2024 13:39
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:From what you say, no, this doesnt sound reasonable. Who dictates what is ok and what is not? Who will do the cleaning if he refuses, and cleaners refuse? What is the consequence of the lack of cleaning? What is your responsibility knowing he has this issue/potential medical disorder and leaving your children with him?
Youre the lawyer, you should be able to think this through and see if its going to work or not. I cant see how it can, but maybe you can find a way.
Op here. I don’t do family law or anything even remotely adjacent.
I guess how does anything get enforced in these parenting agreements? I’ve heard of people having crazy terms in them (like you’re not allowed to have a babysitter without first offering the time to the other parent and you’re not allowed to have sleepovers with someone of the opposite sex if you’re unmarried, etc.).
Those are totally standard language, OP. Rights of first refusal and not having a revolving door of significant others in front of kids is boilerplate.
Anonymous
08/16/2024 13:32
Subject: Can cleanliness standards be an enforceable part of a parenting plan?
Anonymous wrote:I am in a miserable marriage with a severely ADHD spouse. The mental load has led to fatigue and contempt on my part and I’m approaching the point of filing for divorce.
My concern is that DH lives in filth. He has his own bedroom/office/bathroom in our house that are locked and inaccessible to the children. These spaces are full of trash, dirty dishes, dirty clothes, cardboard boxes. The toilet never gets cleaned and has visible feces and no toilet paper. There is a layer of dust and grime over everything.
The rest of our house is clean because I maintain it and require it to be clean. I am afraid if we divorce that my kids will going into an environment like my husbands office and i can’t live with that, so I stay.
But I’m reaching the end of my rope. Would it be possible to include and enforce standards of cleanliness for the residence where he goes with my children? I recognize I could always call CPS if it were bad enough but I don’t want to approach this problem that way. DH is a loving father, he’s just extremely incompetent and limited. I don’t want to have to build a case against him to try and get sole custody or supervised visitation.
I wonder if anyone has ever been able to have and enforce cleanliness standards in a parenting plan? Or is that just a recipe for disaster/more fighting?
I’m really trying to stay but feeling more and more like I just can’t but allowing him to be alone with my kids feels unacceptable.
The dirty dishes and food breed cockroaches and mice. He sounds like a hoarder and you might be able to use this as a wedge. Good luck.