Anonymous
06/12/2024 10:26
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As far as only elite college students getting these, that's a correlation not causation, those colleges admit more go getters who would've gotten these from any school.
What about all those donut hole kids who only chose to go to a state school for financial reasons?
They lose out. At this and the top-law & top-med advice, and the personalized phD faculty recs, and everything else an elite school offers. Elite schools provide need to families with upwards of 200k HHI. Families who are so called "donut hole" make a ton of money compared to the average household in the US and many of them COULD afford elite if they wanted to. They chose not to. And that choice has consequences. Families with actual financial need are well provided for by elite schools who are very generous with meeting full need.
+1 In many cases, the outcomes of a state school are very good, particularly when considering in-state tuition. But not for prestigious jobs and fellowships like the ones referenced in this post. Ivies and other elite privates excel at these.
NOt true for the top flagships, like UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan and UVA. All four are big producers of elite scholars. UVA recently was commended again as top producers of Fulbrights, Rhodes and Marshalls. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-cited-fulbright-scholarship-top-producer
Where is your evidence these four are big producers of elite scholars?
Anonymous
06/12/2024 10:01
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As far as only elite college students getting these, that's a correlation not causation, those colleges admit more go getters who would've gotten these from any school.
What about all those donut hole kids who only chose to go to a state school for financial reasons?
They lose out. At this and the top-law & top-med advice, and the personalized phD faculty recs, and everything else an elite school offers. Elite schools provide need to families with upwards of 200k HHI. Families who are so called "donut hole" make a ton of money compared to the average household in the US and many of them COULD afford elite if they wanted to. They chose not to. And that choice has consequences. Families with actual financial need are well provided for by elite schools who are very generous with meeting full need.
+1 In many cases, the outcomes of a state school are very good, particularly when considering in-state tuition. But not for prestigious jobs and fellowships like the ones referenced in this post. Ivies and other elite privates excel at these.
NOt true for the top flagships, like UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan and UVA. All four are big producers of elite scholars. UVA recently was commended again as top producers of Fulbrights, Rhodes and Marshalls. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-cited-fulbright-scholarship-top-producer
This was quoted in the other thread but
UVA has 56 Rhodes Scholars; UNC has 54
Harvard has 359.
It's a different ball-park all together.
Considering UVA has 2.5X the enrollment of UVA, it means a Harvard grad is about 16X as likely to be awarded a Rhodes scholarship compared to a UVA grad. Rhodes tend to go to schools that have one them before since Rhodes alumni are so involved in the process.
The Fulbright is much more "democratic" in that it provides more awards, spreads the awards around more, and is less influenced by alumni grooming and influence. Harvard has had 416 Fulbright winners from 2010-2024 compared to 167 for UVA. This means a Harvard grad is about 6.2X as likely to win a Fulbright.
+100
Anonymous
06/12/2024 09:58
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Interesting that Harvard is the most successful with the Rhodes scholarship, even compared to the rest of HYPSM. Could this be related to the lack of grade inflation at schools like Princeton? Princeton historically has very low numbers and Yale tends to have about half as many Rhodes scholars as Harvard does, which often has a ridiculous number like 10.
Anonymous
06/12/2024 09:39
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
In what field is your child interested in pursuing graduate education?
There are a bunch of fellowships that your child can be apply for, but they hold different levels of prestige depending on the discipline.
There are a bunch of fellowships that your child can be apply for, but they hold different levels of prestige depending on the discipline.
Anonymous
06/12/2024 09:24
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As far as only elite college students getting these, that's a correlation not causation, those colleges admit more go getters who would've gotten these from any school.
What about all those donut hole kids who only chose to go to a state school for financial reasons?
They lose out. At this and the top-law & top-med advice, and the personalized phD faculty recs, and everything else an elite school offers. Elite schools provide need to families with upwards of 200k HHI. Families who are so called "donut hole" make a ton of money compared to the average household in the US and many of them COULD afford elite if they wanted to. They chose not to. And that choice has consequences. Families with actual financial need are well provided for by elite schools who are very generous with meeting full need.
+1 In many cases, the outcomes of a state school are very good, particularly when considering in-state tuition. But not for prestigious jobs and fellowships like the ones referenced in this post. Ivies and other elite privates excel at these.
NOt true for the top flagships, like UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan and UVA. All four are big producers of elite scholars. UVA recently was commended again as top producers of Fulbrights, Rhodes and Marshalls. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-cited-fulbright-scholarship-top-producer
This was quoted in the other thread but
UVA has 56 Rhodes Scholars; UNC has 54
Harvard has 359.
It's a different ball-park all together.
Considering UVA has 2.5X the enrollment of UVA, it means a Harvard grad is about 16X as likely to be awarded a Rhodes scholarship compared to a UVA grad. Rhodes tend to go to schools that have one them before since Rhodes alumni are so involved in the process.
The Fulbright is much more "democratic" in that it provides more awards, spreads the awards around more, and is less influenced by alumni grooming and influence. Harvard has had 416 Fulbright winners from 2010-2024 compared to 167 for UVA. This means a Harvard grad is about 6.2X as likely to win a Fulbright.
Anonymous
06/12/2024 08:29
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As far as only elite college students getting these, that's a correlation not causation, those colleges admit more go getters who would've gotten these from any school.
What about all those donut hole kids who only chose to go to a state school for financial reasons?
They lose out. At this and the top-law & top-med advice, and the personalized phD faculty recs, and everything else an elite school offers. Elite schools provide need to families with upwards of 200k HHI. Families who are so called "donut hole" make a ton of money compared to the average household in the US and many of them COULD afford elite if they wanted to. They chose not to. And that choice has consequences. Families with actual financial need are well provided for by elite schools who are very generous with meeting full need.
+1 In many cases, the outcomes of a state school are very good, particularly when considering in-state tuition. But not for prestigious jobs and fellowships like the ones referenced in this post. Ivies and other elite privates excel at these.
NOt true for the top flagships, like UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan and UVA. All four are big producers of elite scholars. UVA recently was commended again as top producers of Fulbrights, Rhodes and Marshalls. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-cited-fulbright-scholarship-top-producer
This was quoted in the other thread but
UVA has 56 Rhodes Scholars; UNC has 54
Harvard has 359.
It's a different ball-park all together.
Anonymous
06/12/2024 07:48
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Here are the top fellowships that UVA focuses on. https://citizenscholars.virginia.edu/fellowship
Anonymous
06/12/2024 07:46
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As far as only elite college students getting these, that's a correlation not causation, those colleges admit more go getters who would've gotten these from any school.
What about all those donut hole kids who only chose to go to a state school for financial reasons?
They lose out. At this and the top-law & top-med advice, and the personalized phD faculty recs, and everything else an elite school offers. Elite schools provide need to families with upwards of 200k HHI. Families who are so called "donut hole" make a ton of money compared to the average household in the US and many of them COULD afford elite if they wanted to. They chose not to. And that choice has consequences. Families with actual financial need are well provided for by elite schools who are very generous with meeting full need.
+1 In many cases, the outcomes of a state school are very good, particularly when considering in-state tuition. But not for prestigious jobs and fellowships like the ones referenced in this post. Ivies and other elite privates excel at these.
NOt true for the top flagships, like UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan and UVA. All four are big producers of elite scholars. UVA recently was commended again as top producers of Fulbrights, Rhodes and Marshalls. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-cited-fulbright-scholarship-top-producer
Anonymous
06/12/2024 07:41
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As far as only elite college students getting these, that's a correlation not causation, those colleges admit more go getters who would've gotten these from any school.
What about all those donut hole kids who only chose to go to a state school for financial reasons?
They lose out. At this and the top-law & top-med advice, and the personalized phD faculty recs, and everything else an elite school offers. Elite schools provide need to families with upwards of 200k HHI. Families who are so called "donut hole" make a ton of money compared to the average household in the US and many of them COULD afford elite if they wanted to. They chose not to. And that choice has consequences. Families with actual financial need are well provided for by elite schools who are very generous with meeting full need.
+1 In many cases, the outcomes of a state school are very good, particularly when considering in-state tuition. But not for prestigious jobs and fellowships like the ones referenced in this post. Ivies and other elite privates excel at these.
Anonymous
06/12/2024 07:37
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
[/b]Anonymous[b wrote:]My rising senior is thinking about applying for a post-graduate scholarship. She has been a stellar and well rounded student at her flagship university. My MIL says that these scholarships are mainly for the "elite" colleges and that I should just "pony up" and pay for grad school. Any truth to the assertion that these are only for "elite" colleges? Putting that aside, I know Rhodes is probably darn near impossible to get. What about all of these others?
OP, here is a list of the schools whose students have won Rhodes Scholarships up to 2020, so you can make up your own mind. https://www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/media/44935/2020-rs_number-of-winners-by-institution.pdf[b]
Anonymous
06/11/2024 21:24
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As far as only elite college students getting these, that's a correlation not causation, those colleges admit more go getters who would've gotten these from any school.
What about all those donut hole kids who only chose to go to a state school for financial reasons?
They lose out. At this and the top-law & top-med advice, and the personalized phD faculty recs, and everything else an elite school offers. Elite schools provide need to families with upwards of 200k HHI. Families who are so called "donut hole" make a ton of money compared to the average household in the US and many of them COULD afford elite if they wanted to. They chose not to. And that choice has consequences. Families with actual financial need are well provided for by elite schools who are very generous with meeting full need.
Ugh! not you again.
Anonymous
06/11/2024 21:06
Subject: Re:Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
+1Anonymous wrote:(Same PP) And most funding for grad school comes from the grad program itself, not major external fellowships.
Anonymous
06/11/2024 21:02
Subject: Re:Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:From my DD's experience applying, the Rhodes seemed slightly more elitist. There were 16 finalists in her district and only three were from public schools. For the Marshall, they were much more welcoming and had more state school representation. They even expanded the # of scholars from 40 to 50! But, to have any shot at these scholarships you need a good narrative for "Why Oxford" or "Why UK" and you really do have to be a superstar. The state university should have a fellowships office to advise her along the way. My DD ended up winning one of them a few years ago, and it was a wonderful experience for her.
So they list "finalists" (not necessarily selectees) and their schools? Could you post a link?
PP: they did not list finalists, but at the group interview/coffee hour/dinner, they all introduced themselves and what school they were at
Anonymous
06/11/2024 20:43
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I won a Fulbright from a no name college. But I had a nearly perfect GPA and was fluent in the local language. If you don’t speak the language of the host country, you don’t have a chance of getting award. That leaves only English-speaking countries as your options, and those awards are extraordinarily competitive.
You can get Fulbrights to countries where you may not speak the language, especially for the English Teaching Assistant position. It usually helps your case to do so, but if it's a small country and/or a language that's not commonly taught in the US, then it isn't held against you. I know kids going to the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Greece, Indonesia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, etc who haven't ever formally studied the language nor speak it at home. Even some of the Taiwan Fulbright ETAs majored in other languages in fact and may only have rudimentary Mandarin from a year of classes or so. Meet with the fellowship advisor on campus, a lot of people don't speak additional languages, and they still have options. There's also no GPA cutoff, being a better student always helps your case, but it doesn't have the rigid requirements that other fellowships have.
The teaching assistant Fulbrights are generally viewed as far less prestigious.
That's true, I just mentioned it because ETA positions do constitute a large portion of Fulbright fellowships offered and awarded and colleges do announce all of their recipients together usually. (On that note, I think it is interesting that both Dartmouth and Yale have a ton of ETAs, rather than study/research recipients. https://news.yale.edu/2024/05/30/twenty-seven-graduating-seniors-recent-yale-college-alums-win-fulbrights) That being said, a non-ETA Fulbright award does seem more accessible and attainable to a high-achieving student at a state school or non-T20 college than some of the other nationally-competitive fellowships.
Anonymous
06/11/2024 20:17
Subject: Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright, and other post-grad scholarships?
The most direct path to a Rhodes is through the Truman Scholarship. Many students from State and lower tiered universities qualify for both every year, but doing so takes effort and specific qualifications. Your DC must also have support from a professor that understands the process and can serve as a mentor. Grades are only part of it. Do some research. It’s doable if your DC is talented and understands all that is required.