Anonymous
09/25/2023 13:04
Subject: Re:Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that the author is on to something. The martyrdom model of motherhood has become the ideal female POV of parenthood. Unfortunately, it is compounded by the fact that other domestic duties and mental burden also falls on women. And corporate policies often frown upon mothers.
On top of that, the pandemic clearly showed us that schools are not doing a great job of educating our children and if we do not parent our children then there are others in real and virtual life who will prey on them.
Biologically, mothers have been programmed to be the primary caregiver to a large extent. But, in the modern world, we cannot put more burden on mothers than is already there biologically and not expect that that they either switch off or are resentful.
I have taken my cues in parenting from my DH and not from other women. He and I, met in graduate school, and we both worked in careers that required us to think and analyze. He is an amazing dad and husband, but he had NO GUILT to outsource chores and throw money for convenience. When we decided that I will become a SAHM, he was worried about my mental state. He and I, built-in all the breaks possible for me, so that I could be a less resentful and mainly happy SAHM and wife.
I can say, I am very happy with my life and all the time I have spent with my kids. All that is possible because I had relatives who helped, DH who helped, I could sleep in on weekends, I had domestic help, I was secure. It mitigated the erasure of a professional identity and getting out of touch with many of my friends from a previous life.
Motherhood is never easy for the mothers. Is it a scam? No. But, it requires you to smash your sense of self as it existed before having a child and rebuild something new in which the child becomes central. It does not matter if you are a SAHM or WOHM. You are forever changed in ways that you could not have comprehended before being a parent. It is not a scam in the sense that it is also very joyful and fulfilling. But, it is absolutely not easy and it does a number on you as an individual. There is also not one single prescription to have a balanced life in motherhood that works for everyone. Because your health, your baggage, your child, your marriage, your job... in short your whole existence is unique and dynamic. All I can say is that mothers try their best and mostly put themselves last.
That's great, but depends on a partner who is like yours. Most DHs are not like yours. My DH definitely contributes to the dynamic where I come last. Even when I'm actively working to change that dynamic, he fights me on doing his fair share, and he fights me on outsourcing, and he fights me on taking time to myself. All while claiming he cares about my mental health and wants an equal partnership.
I wish my DH was more like yours. He's not, and never will be, and there are no social consequences for it. In fact, I think he's a lot more typical than yours.
Mine too. If I ask him to do something I’m nagging and if I say I'm outsourcing I’m a wasteful spender. Conveniently for him all that’s left is me doing everything.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 11:54
Subject: Re:Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
Anonymous wrote:I think that the author is on to something. The martyrdom model of motherhood has become the ideal female POV of parenthood. Unfortunately, it is compounded by the fact that other domestic duties and mental burden also falls on women. And corporate policies often frown upon mothers.
On top of that, the pandemic clearly showed us that schools are not doing a great job of educating our children and if we do not parent our children then there are others in real and virtual life who will prey on them.
Biologically, mothers have been programmed to be the primary caregiver to a large extent. But, in the modern world, we cannot put more burden on mothers than is already there biologically and not expect that that they either switch off or are resentful.
I have taken my cues in parenting from my DH and not from other women. He and I, met in graduate school, and we both worked in careers that required us to think and analyze. He is an amazing dad and husband, but he had NO GUILT to outsource chores and throw money for convenience. When we decided that I will become a SAHM, he was worried about my mental state. He and I, built-in all the breaks possible for me, so that I could be a less resentful and mainly happy SAHM and wife.
I can say, I am very happy with my life and all the time I have spent with my kids. All that is possible because I had relatives who helped, DH who helped, I could sleep in on weekends, I had domestic help, I was secure. It mitigated the erasure of a professional identity and getting out of touch with many of my friends from a previous life.
Motherhood is never easy for the mothers. Is it a scam? No. But, it requires you to smash your sense of self as it existed before having a child and rebuild something new in which the child becomes central. It does not matter if you are a SAHM or WOHM. You are forever changed in ways that you could not have comprehended before being a parent. It is not a scam in the sense that it is also very joyful and fulfilling. But, it is absolutely not easy and it does a number on you as an individual. There is also not one single prescription to have a balanced life in motherhood that works for everyone. Because your health, your baggage, your child, your marriage, your job... in short your whole existence is unique and dynamic. All I can say is that mothers try their best and mostly put themselves last.
That's great, but depends on a partner who is like yours. Most DHs are not like yours. My DH definitely contributes to the dynamic where I come last. Even when I'm actively working to change that dynamic, he fights me on doing his fair share, and he fights me on outsourcing, and he fights me on taking time to myself. All while claiming he cares about my mental health and wants an equal partnership.
I wish my DH was more like yours. He's not, and never will be, and there are no social consequences for it. In fact, I think he's a lot more typical than yours.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 11:27
Subject: Re:Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
I think that the author is on to something. The martyrdom model of motherhood has become the ideal female POV of parenthood. Unfortunately, it is compounded by the fact that other domestic duties and mental burden also falls on women. And corporate policies often frown upon mothers.
On top of that, the pandemic clearly showed us that schools are not doing a great job of educating our children and if we do not parent our children then there are others in real and virtual life who will prey on them.
Biologically, mothers have been programmed to be the primary caregiver to a large extent. But, in the modern world, we cannot put more burden on mothers than is already there biologically and not expect that that they either switch off or are resentful.
I have taken my cues in parenting from my DH and not from other women. He and I, met in graduate school, and we both worked in careers that required us to think and analyze. He is an amazing dad and husband, but he had NO GUILT to outsource chores and throw money for convenience. When we decided that I will become a SAHM, he was worried about my mental state. He and I, built-in all the breaks possible for me, so that I could be a less resentful and mainly happy SAHM and wife.
I can say, I am very happy with my life and all the time I have spent with my kids. All that is possible because I had relatives who helped, DH who helped, I could sleep in on weekends, I had domestic help, I was secure. It mitigated the erasure of a professional identity and getting out of touch with many of my friends from a previous life.
Motherhood is never easy for the mothers. Is it a scam? No. But, it requires you to smash your sense of self as it existed before having a child and rebuild something new in which the child becomes central. It does not matter if you are a SAHM or WOHM. You are forever changed in ways that you could not have comprehended before being a parent. It is not a scam in the sense that it is also very joyful and fulfilling. But, it is absolutely not easy and it does a number on you as an individual. There is also not one single prescription to have a balanced life in motherhood that works for everyone. Because your health, your baggage, your child, your marriage, your job... in short your whole existence is unique and dynamic. All I can say is that mothers try their best and mostly put themselves last.
On top of that, the pandemic clearly showed us that schools are not doing a great job of educating our children and if we do not parent our children then there are others in real and virtual life who will prey on them.
Biologically, mothers have been programmed to be the primary caregiver to a large extent. But, in the modern world, we cannot put more burden on mothers than is already there biologically and not expect that that they either switch off or are resentful.
I have taken my cues in parenting from my DH and not from other women. He and I, met in graduate school, and we both worked in careers that required us to think and analyze. He is an amazing dad and husband, but he had NO GUILT to outsource chores and throw money for convenience. When we decided that I will become a SAHM, he was worried about my mental state. He and I, built-in all the breaks possible for me, so that I could be a less resentful and mainly happy SAHM and wife.
I can say, I am very happy with my life and all the time I have spent with my kids. All that is possible because I had relatives who helped, DH who helped, I could sleep in on weekends, I had domestic help, I was secure. It mitigated the erasure of a professional identity and getting out of touch with many of my friends from a previous life.
Motherhood is never easy for the mothers. Is it a scam? No. But, it requires you to smash your sense of self as it existed before having a child and rebuild something new in which the child becomes central. It does not matter if you are a SAHM or WOHM. You are forever changed in ways that you could not have comprehended before being a parent. It is not a scam in the sense that it is also very joyful and fulfilling. But, it is absolutely not easy and it does a number on you as an individual. There is also not one single prescription to have a balanced life in motherhood that works for everyone. Because your health, your baggage, your child, your marriage, your job... in short your whole existence is unique and dynamic. All I can say is that mothers try their best and mostly put themselves last.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 11:07
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
Anonymous wrote:I love the physical aspect of parenting. I’ve discovered though that not having quiet time alone makes me sad. I’ve compensated by staying up too late after everyone goes to bed. It’s not heathy for me and I’m always tired. But it’s the only way I can sit in silence with my thoughts or read.
My husband does this. And then sleeps in because "he's tired." Tired, because he stayed up too late. And its a vicious cycle because after he sleeps in, he doesn't feel tired at a normal bedtime, because he didn't get up until 9am and the whole thing repeats.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 09:59
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
I love the physical aspect of parenting. I’ve discovered though that not having quiet time alone makes me sad. I’ve compensated by staying up too late after everyone goes to bed. It’s not heathy for me and I’m always tired. But it’s the only way I can sit in silence with my thoughts or read.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 09:54
Subject: Re:Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
This article did not resonate with me at all.
I'm a mom. I don't feel coerced or part of a system. I'm a feminist.
I think a subset of the population is naturally inclined to be super introspective about things. Go for it. It's just not me.
I'm a mom. I don't feel coerced or part of a system. I'm a feminist.
I think a subset of the population is naturally inclined to be super introspective about things. Go for it. It's just not me.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 06:58
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
Anonymous wrote:I think reproducing and having kids is common and necessary to continue the species.
I think modern parenting is on another level and because of it, many women are unhappy.
+1 well put
Children are a gift to all people, parents or not. But so much about the way our society is set up makes it all much harder than it has to be.
I was talking to an older gentleman, maybe 65. His mother locked them out of the house every morning. “Go play.” And she stayed at home.
Paid employment plus kids equals the double shift. Plus you’re reinforcing the lack of value given to care of young kids as daycare workers are badly paid.
Staying at home means isolation unless you’re very social and have a good amount of money. It also means wrangling a little kid or two for a few years to teach them to behave (because you’re responsible for his behavior after all) without yelling or corporal punishment.
“It’s just a hard season mama. Don’t compare yourself to men!”
It doesn’t have to be this hard. We chose to make it so. A start would be less insane expectations of mothers.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 06:18
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
I think reproducing and having kids is common and necessary to continue the species.
I think modern parenting is on another level and because of it, many women are unhappy.
I think modern parenting is on another level and because of it, many women are unhappy.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 05:56
Subject: Re:Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
A happy, loved and well raised child isn’t just a gift to that child but a gift to our common humanity.
A profound truth.
Too bad our common humanity does so little to establish the conditions in which children can be well raised, loved and happy.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 05:12
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
I think so much of what women have and are doing is comparing themselves and their lives to those of men and the things they have created and then trying to be like them and equate success with doing what they do. All these people calling for daycare seem to forget that the daycare is provided almost exclusively by other women who themselves may be touched out when they go home to their own children. The fact of the matter is that human children are high need. I think a lot of people don’t realize that life has Seasons. Times of great work and stress and times of more enjoyment and rest. “They’re only little once” isn’t intended to discount that it is hard. It is a reminder that this too shall pass. A happy, loved and well raised child isn’t just a gift to that child but a gift to our common humanity.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 00:27
Subject: Re:Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
One thing I didn't understand about the physical aspect of motherhood was how much of the physical contact with my kids would not be comfortable for me. It's not all snuggles and hugs and holding hands.
Today my DD, who has been cooped up at home sick for three days, had a mini meltdown. Of course she didn't want DH, only me (the more upset she is, the stronger her preference for me). I was lying on her bed with her to comfort her, and she wanted me right next to her, hugging her. But at the same time she's still upset and disregulated, so she's pushing her feet into my thighs. She wants my arms wrapped around her but she's basically shoving my legs away. It's not tender or sweet, it's freaking exhausting. Eventually she relaxed and it's this whole ordeal. It's not all just kissing booboos and giving hugs.
Add in all the normal, day-to-day contact like wrestling a toddler into clothes they don't want to put on, lifting a kid up high enough to see something, or strapping them into car seats, or carrying them the last block home when their legs give out. Some of that can be tender and sweet, and some of it can be a battle, it can be hot and sweaty when you just want space, it can be repetitive to a Groundhog's Day level of monotony.
I love snuggling my DD while I read to her in bed at night. I love our hugs goodbye and hello before and after preschool. I'm so glad to be there to kiss the booboos and offer hugs and carry her when she needs it. And also, some days, it's physically taxing, exhausting, work. That I'm supposed to treasure every minute of. And sometimes I don't. And no one else can do it.
And yeah, after a day or a week of that, if my DH sidles up next to me on the couch or in bed, I am annoyed. And then he's hurt and it's like "really? you too? I already went through this today." It's too much.
I need some kind of two week silent, no touch retreat.
Today my DD, who has been cooped up at home sick for three days, had a mini meltdown. Of course she didn't want DH, only me (the more upset she is, the stronger her preference for me). I was lying on her bed with her to comfort her, and she wanted me right next to her, hugging her. But at the same time she's still upset and disregulated, so she's pushing her feet into my thighs. She wants my arms wrapped around her but she's basically shoving my legs away. It's not tender or sweet, it's freaking exhausting. Eventually she relaxed and it's this whole ordeal. It's not all just kissing booboos and giving hugs.
Add in all the normal, day-to-day contact like wrestling a toddler into clothes they don't want to put on, lifting a kid up high enough to see something, or strapping them into car seats, or carrying them the last block home when their legs give out. Some of that can be tender and sweet, and some of it can be a battle, it can be hot and sweaty when you just want space, it can be repetitive to a Groundhog's Day level of monotony.
I love snuggling my DD while I read to her in bed at night. I love our hugs goodbye and hello before and after preschool. I'm so glad to be there to kiss the booboos and offer hugs and carry her when she needs it. And also, some days, it's physically taxing, exhausting, work. That I'm supposed to treasure every minute of. And sometimes I don't. And no one else can do it.
And yeah, after a day or a week of that, if my DH sidles up next to me on the couch or in bed, I am annoyed. And then he's hurt and it's like "really? you too? I already went through this today." It's too much.
I need some kind of two week silent, no touch retreat.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 00:18
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read the article, but I also find the pp who is obsessed with putting down all of us weak mothers who find motherhood very hard annoying and off topic. I guarantee that lady had easy kids.
Just commenting to say touched out is so real. It’s visceral. Knowing intellectually the difficult details of parenthood before you have a child simply does not prepare you for what it feels like to be a stay at home mom to a child who is so high needs and sensitive the paid help quit and who has only contact napped since birth and who still wants to be held and nursed like a newborn (I don’t let her but she makes it clear that’s her preference). Touched out doesn’t even begin to describe how done I am with being touched most days. Months. Years.
I’m not a SAHM and I actually have paid help but I feel this in my bones. I’ve done so many things to cultivate breaks for myself, and on the whole I think I get more downtime than most moms. And yet it just never enough. Even when I’ve orchestrated time alone, without my kids, away from DH and my house, I STILL feel like it’s hard to go back to them. I feel like I’m going to need years of good sleep and alone time before I feel anywhere near back to my baseline or some kind of normal.
Same
I have a clingy, over the top 2 year old. When she naps I need to decompress. I find I can’t do much. I’m actually a type A person and not lazy at all but after my 2 year old is done with me it’s hard. Except that’s when my older kids think they can play with me. And thats totally fair to them. Basically there’s never a second of downtime until they’re all in bed. And then I’m expected to scrub the house from top to bottom until I fall into bed.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 00:16
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
Anonymous wrote:I have 3 kids (2,4, 7). I often feel touched out. Recently I flinched when my 7 year old tried to hold my hand and I realized how touched out I was. I’m still nursing the 24m old which I love, but I’m sure it’s a part of it. It’s just during wake up and sleep. That part is the best part of our days. The rest of the time when she won’t let other people hold her, help her get or talk to her sucks. The other two are all over me too. Like I still can’t pee in private.
The weird part is that Dh never understands. He’s a great dad and very hands on, but they don’t want to snuggle him nonstop or nurse him.
I call this the “swarm” and my kids do it too. They’ve never once swarmed DH. It’s awful.
Anonymous
09/25/2023 00:14
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
I have 3 kids (2,4, 7). I often feel touched out. Recently I flinched when my 7 year old tried to hold my hand and I realized how touched out I was. I’m still nursing the 24m old which I love, but I’m sure it’s a part of it. It’s just during wake up and sleep. That part is the best part of our days. The rest of the time when she won’t let other people hold her, help her get or talk to her sucks. The other two are all over me too. Like I still can’t pee in private.
The weird part is that Dh never understands. He’s a great dad and very hands on, but they don’t want to snuggle him nonstop or nurse him.
The weird part is that Dh never understands. He’s a great dad and very hands on, but they don’t want to snuggle him nonstop or nurse him.
Anonymous
09/24/2023 23:57
Subject: Touched Out: Is Motherhood a Scam?
Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read the article, but I also find the pp who is obsessed with putting down all of us weak mothers who find motherhood very hard annoying and off topic. I guarantee that lady had easy kids.
Just commenting to say touched out is so real. It’s visceral. Knowing intellectually the difficult details of parenthood before you have a child simply does not prepare you for what it feels like to be a stay at home mom to a child who is so high needs and sensitive the paid help quit and who has only contact napped since birth and who still wants to be held and nursed like a newborn (I don’t let her but she makes it clear that’s her preference). Touched out doesn’t even begin to describe how done I am with being touched most days. Months. Years.
I’m not a SAHM and I actually have paid help but I feel this in my bones. I’ve done so many things to cultivate breaks for myself, and on the whole I think I get more downtime than most moms. And yet it just never enough. Even when I’ve orchestrated time alone, without my kids, away from DH and my house, I STILL feel like it’s hard to go back to them. I feel like I’m going to need years of good sleep and alone time before I feel anywhere near back to my baseline or some kind of normal.