Anonymous wrote:Apparently no more helicopters flying that route anymore. Good start but why did it take an accident to make this happen. I feel like there seem to be so many more helicopters in recent years. Don’t get me started on the low flying over roofs in our neighborhood. Hope this also closes conversation on more flights into Reagan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

What in the world is it like to be so simple minded? Yes, pilot could theoretically have been just a straight up incompetent pilot. Or they could have had a ruptured aorta or fatal arrhythmia or any number of things. Time will (hopefully) tell.

And btw, if the pilot was so incredibly incompetent let’s talk about the staggering number of oversight and promotion/progression failures that would have had to occur (which were the responsibility of people other than the pilot.)

I’m a physician and if I let an incompetent intern do a complicated high risk procedure that ends badly that would be a grave error in my part (to a much greater extent than the clueless, doesn’t know what they don’t know intern.)

As shown over and over in Grey's Anatomy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

What in the world is it like to be so simple minded? Yes, pilot could theoretically have been just a straight up incompetent pilot. Or they could have had a ruptured aorta or fatal arrhythmia or any number of things. Time will (hopefully) tell.

And btw, if the pilot was so incredibly incompetent let’s talk about the staggering number of oversight and promotion/progression failures that would have had to occur (which were the responsibility of people other than the pilot.)

I’m a physician and if I let an incompetent intern do a complicated high risk procedure that ends badly that would be a grave error in my part (to a much greater extent than the clueless, doesn’t know what they don’t know intern.)

Anonymous wrote:You know the nutjobs will target the woman even before we know if she was really at fault. It's part of the dei hire narrative. I don't blame the family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Releasing names of adults who have caused a tragedy are released by public officials. This is not up to "the family." If that were the case, then we wouldn't know any of the perpetrators of accidents and tragedies. But the names are always revealed.

Something is not right there.

It is up to the family.
There is a protocol in the military when there is a service member death. Family gets a say.

Stop with the crazy conspiracy theory.

They don’t get a say when 64 innocents are killed. 2/3 families are doing the right thing. What’s wrong with the 3rd?

LOOK EVERYONE! The morality police showed up.

Just admit you don't have any good reason to defend holding the name back.

I’ve got a damned good reason.
If it was my kid, I’d want the name withheld to keep it away from you crazy conspiracy theorist MFs.

+1

These 4chan comet ping pong types are fcking nuts.

Keep it classy PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We fly out of both Dulles and Regan. Is Reagan Dulles father away from military flight paths? I’m getting anxious about our summer plane tickets.

"Regan"? Do you mean National?

Dulles does not have these congestion issues.

Some people still call it Reagan, don't be obtuse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Releasing names of adults who have caused a tragedy are released by public officials. This is not up to "the family." If that were the case, then we wouldn't know any of the perpetrators of accidents and tragedies. But the names are always revealed.

Something is not right there.

It is up to the family.
There is a protocol in the military when there is a service member death. Family gets a say.

Stop with the crazy conspiracy theory.

They don’t get a say when 64 innocents are killed. 2/3 families are doing the right thing. What’s wrong with the 3rd?

LOOK EVERYONE! The morality police showed up.

Just admit you don't have any good reason to defend holding the name back.

I’ve got a damned good reason.
If it was my kid, I’d want the name withheld to keep it away from you crazy conspiracy theorist MFs.

+1

These 4chan comet ping pong types are fcking nuts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

+1000000!

This is it: It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Everyone else STFU. And now they seem to have come to their senses and changed the process - no more helicopters in flight paths is the right process There is NOBODY who is infallible. You are then a machine and not a human if you are infallible. That helicopter may have messed up - but maybe they didn't - we'll never know what they saw or did not see. The way to approach this is to call it a tragedy of major proportions and learn how to ensure it does not happen again. There has been a pattern of near misses so these 2 planes just paid the ultimate price. It was not the first or second or even 5th time this could have happened.

Absolutely not at all ridiculous to expect to be told who was piloting a helicopter that killed 60+ civilians. When in the history of major airplane disasters has the name of the pilot behind the controls NOT been reported, but moreover, intentionally withheld

They’re probably withholding the name to prepare the family for the vitriol that is going be unleashed on their daughter/sister/wife/niece, etc . It’s going to be ugly for them once the name is released.

We know the names of all the men involved. Why is she being treated differently?

Are feminists ok with this?

It’s not a feminist thing. It’s a response to the current political environment.
Because women in the military are the target of the SecDef and the Pres who are encouraging the targeting. Their followers will say/do terrible things since they’ve been given a license to by the leaders. All blame will be on her. No matter what. There is no truth anymore with this administration.
Best to prepare the family.

No one is going to say jack about the two male military personnel. Because of the leaders have said men can do no wrong.

The end result will be the grounding all women military pilots.

-signed former military officer

Disagree. Any pilot that crashes their helicopter into a passenger jet, despite
all the warning and altitude restrictions that were not followed, should get an intense investigation into their training, qualifications, performances, and merit. And I’m sure the male pilot will, just as she will. That isn’t discriminating bc she is a woman- it is trying to figure out
What went wrong in training and preparation that could allow this to have happened

I agree with you. Additionally, these are Army Black Hawk pilots- not random pilots of a private helicopter. We should expect the standard to be perfection. It’s possible that due to errors in judgement these army pilots caused the deaths of civilians. It’s unacceptable and a right to privacy is no excuse for information to be withheld.

+1 But I'm not surprised that the military keeps things quiet and under wraps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anyone who has seen the video can come to that conclusion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Releasing names of adults who have caused a tragedy are released by public officials. This is not up to "the family." If that were the case, then we wouldn't know any of the perpetrators of accidents and tragedies. But the names are always revealed.

Something is not right there.

It is up to the family.
There is a protocol in the military when there is a service member death. Family gets a say.

Stop with the crazy conspiracy theory.

They don’t get a say when 64 innocents are killed. 2/3 families are doing the right thing. What’s wrong with the 3rd?

LOOK EVERYONE! The morality police showed up.

Just admit you don't have any good reason to defend holding the name back.

I’ve got a damned good reason.
If it was my kid, I’d want the name withheld to keep it away from you crazy conspiracy theorist MFs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)

That sounds reasonable. But that also isn’t how things are done here. The two other crew members’ names have been released. The American Airlines pilots’ names have been released. They are withholding one name. The name of the women thought it have been flying the helicopter. That is shady. I cannot recall any transportation disaster that has killed as many people as this where the pilot, captain, driver, etc. name isn’t released

Trump prematurely blamed the pilot during a national press conference. He needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He is the reason her name hasn’t been released. He is the reason that her family will probably be terrorized.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

+1000000!

This is it: It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Everyone else STFU. And now they seem to have come to their senses and changed the process - no more helicopters in flight paths is the right process There is NOBODY who is infallible. You are then a machine and not a human if you are infallible. That helicopter may have messed up - but maybe they didn't - we'll never know what they saw or did not see. The way to approach this is to call it a tragedy of major proportions and learn how to ensure it does not happen again. There has been a pattern of near misses so these 2 planes just paid the ultimate price. It was not the first or second or even 5th time this could have happened.

Absolutely not at all ridiculous to expect to be told who was piloting a helicopter that killed 60+ civilians. When in the history of major airplane disasters has the name of the pilot behind the controls NOT been reported, but moreover, intentionally withheld

They’re probably withholding the name to prepare the family for the vitriol that is going be unleashed on their daughter/sister/wife/niece, etc . It’s going to be ugly for them once the name is released.

We know the names of all the men involved. Why is she being treated differently?

Are feminists ok with this?

It’s not a feminist thing. It’s a response to the current political environment.
Because women in the military are the target of the SecDef and the Pres who are encouraging the targeting. Their followers will say/do terrible things since they’ve been given a license to by the leaders. All blame will be on her. No matter what. There is no truth anymore with this administration.
Best to prepare the family.

No one is going to say jack about the two male military personnel. Because of the leaders have said men can do no wrong.

The end result will be the grounding all women military pilots.

-signed former military officer

Disagree. Any pilot that crashes their helicopter into a passenger jet, despite
all the warning and altitude restrictions that were not followed, should get an intense investigation into their training, qualifications, performances, and merit. And I’m sure the male pilot will, just as she will. That isn’t discriminating bc she is a woman- it is trying to figure out
What went wrong in training and preparation that could allow this to have happened

I agree with you. Additionally, these are Army Black Hawk pilots- not random pilots of a private helicopter. We should expect the standard to be perfection. It’s possible that due to errors in judgement these army pilots caused the deaths of civilians. It’s unacceptable and a right to privacy is no excuse for information to be withheld.

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been involved in accident investigations, I prefer that the crewmember information NOT be released at this stage. It should be anonymized during the course of the investigation, so as to avoid any risk of subconscious bias (or even the appearance of such). Let the investigation go where the data leads. Once a probable cause has been determined, IF there is reason to suspect that the skills, training or experience of the personnel were a factor, THEN proceed to examine their records to determine where those factors fell short.

The only reason to examine records at this point, before anyone has a full picture of what happened, is to scapegoat the least experienced member of the team. (And btw, it's not always the least experienced person who actually made the mistake! Another good reason to wait for the investigation to conclude on the evidence before jumping to blame any individual.)