Anonymous
08/28/2021 13:49
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Is it okay to let your 17-year-old read the court documents?”
I do not mind talking to my child about sex or sexual abuse, but I did not show the court documents to my child because I, who am an adult, felt very disgusted reading them since I could not stop thinking that this was a man in his late 30s/40s AND a teacher talking with a child/student about sex.
For me, it was disturbing and gross that a teacher fantasized with a child/student and would give them a vibrator as a graduation present. To me, it was clear that he wanted to take advantage of his students. I rather explain to my child about manipulation and control rather than reading the sexual communications.
I would only consider reading the court documents as an example within a class about sexual abuse so that the focus is on manipulation and control. I would only share it with a teenager if I knew that the teenager could be at-risk.
I think that the court documents are more for parents, especially those who do not see it as a crime. Would you be OK with a teacher to fantasize with your child? Give them sexual toys? Groom them? Would you be OK with your child to lose their virginity with a teacher?
To me, it’s disgusting and disturbing. To me, he was a pedophile and predator and it upsets me that he got away with it for so long.
I agree with all of this, except the court documents are for the judge, not "for the parents".
They are for the public.
No. They are for the court but they are made available to the public. How do you not understand this?
DP, but your combative tone is bizarre here. If they are only for the court/judge, there is zero need for them to be made public. If they are made public, it is because there has been a state or local determination based on law that they are beneficial to the public. They are very clearly beneficial to any member of the public who wants to protect the vulnerable in their community, not just parents.
yes, I am frustrated by the parents who think that court documents are "for the parents" it highlights an entirely myopic perspective where everything is about them, for their benefit, for their satisfaction. And clearly that's not how the law works. The school and the police and the courts have certain duties to uphold, but these are not and are never to satisfy the interests of a set of parents. Ok?
Anonymous
08/28/2021 13:47
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:
16 year olds should not be tried as adult.
Here's a 14-year old being charged as an adult for a quadruple shooting (including one dead) in Germantown 2 weeks ago:
https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=36912
Getting a gun and shooting 4 people sure seems like an adult decision to me. Time for adult consequences.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 13:44
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:
Imbalance of power as in one is male and the other one is female? In a society where there is imbalance between the genders? And where men write the laws and are in power?
I wonder how many moms are OK with their children having sex at 16 vs. how many fathers are OK with their children having sex at 16. How about your daughters having sex at 16 vs your sons having sex at 16?
MCPS BOE is 100% female.
Maryland State delegates (Districts 14-20) are 57% female.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 13:40
Subject: Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:But isn’t MCPS funded with our taxes? Can we not lobby? Can we not vote out representatives? Can the state congress not mandate the Dept. of the education to do more and assign a budget? Can we not protest?
It's been tried. In the BOE election last year, we had some good candidates who were calling for independent oversight among other reforms. Instead, all the incumbents won and they were all backed by the teachers union.
If there was one election where parents were mad, it was last year because schools were closed, and still it's a difficult task. That's why we have BOE members like an 80 year old (Docca) who routinely falls asleep during meetings (I don't blame her.. she's 80!).
The County Council has little oversight, because MCPS is independent. The Council can only vote a yes/no on the MCPS budget request and that's the only control they have.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 13:23
Subject: Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But isn’t MCPS funded with our taxes? Can we not lobby? Can we not vote out representatives? Can the state congress not mandate the Dept. of the education to do more and assign a budget? Can we not protest?
+1000 Are there well connected parents at Whitman that like to lobby for an independent IG for employee misconduct and sexual abuse within MCPS. MCPS’s approach to not respond when teachers/coaches are violating the Employee Code of Conduct gives predators free reign to work in the school system. Even worse is when MCPS does their own investigations of sexual abuse and assault BEFORE the police.
MCPS and the Board (who both are advised by the MCPS General Counsel Office) has no neutral third party or mechanism to investigate employee misconduct. Their methodology anytime a complaint from the public is filed is to circle the wagons around their employee. Case history of MCPS child predators are riddled with examples of MCPS knowing of complaints of predatory behavior before the police arrest for sexual abuse occurs.
The Employee Code of Conduct was written to protect children from abuse by people who work for MCPS. It’s negligent to knowingly not enforce it.
This should be more widely known. I think the parent community would be outraged to know. I think parents of kids that haven't faced such abusers also need to know so that they can get behind this idea. My kids haven't been in such situations but I have adult friends suffering from past abuse and I read enough to know how heartbreakingly damaging it is. For the sake of society, we need to help those vulnerable to it, since they aren't going to be able to protect themselves.
I've worked at UNC where the students had to write "Pledge" followed by their name at the top of every assignment. (it means that they basically swear to not have cheated, under penalty of expulsion or similar). I thought it was a kind of weird idea, but the students I knew took it ultra-seriously. So if MCPS introduced some routine that drilled into all staff AND students that the Employee Code of Conduct was sort of 'sacred', students would be more alarmed when they witnessed it being broken, and the culture could encourage students to question whenever they saw an infraction. They could still be shushed by a perpetrator, but at least the perpetrator would know that their breaking of the CoC was noted by at least one person and potentially others...
Anonymous
08/28/2021 13:15
Subject: Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:But isn’t MCPS funded with our taxes? Can we not lobby? Can we not vote out representatives? Can the state congress not mandate the Dept. of the education to do more and assign a budget? Can we not protest?
I'm not really engaged in BOE politics but if there was a parent-led call for them to hire an IG or similar to protect against abusers in MCPS, I'd get on board and share w/my parent friends. I would find this issue worthy of taking a position as a MoCo voter, for example.
I wonder if other school districts have IGs for sexual abuse. I suppose that one potential area to look for models is university's efforts to address campus rape accusations. I know that many approaches have been controversial, for example, usually having to do with who represents the victims' side of things and whether they are empowered to press charges, and whether this has had negative consequences for falsely accused students (or because people fear the potential of such consequences).
But those models are different since many alleged abusers would be fellow students, not teaching faculty. (Of course, faculty would also be accused from time to time. And there are professors that abuse students). Does anyone follow those university-level issues?
Anonymous
08/28/2021 13:10
Subject: Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:But isn’t MCPS funded with our taxes? Can we not lobby? Can we not vote out representatives? Can the state congress not mandate the Dept. of the education to do more and assign a budget? Can we not protest?
+1000 Are there well connected parents at Whitman that like to lobby for an independent IG for employee misconduct and sexual abuse within MCPS. MCPS’s approach to not respond when teachers/coaches are violating the Employee Code of Conduct gives predators free reign to work in the school system. Even worse is when MCPS does their own investigations of sexual abuse and assault BEFORE the police.
MCPS and the Board (who both are advised by the MCPS General Counsel Office) has no neutral third party or mechanism to investigate employee misconduct. Their methodology anytime a complaint from the public is filed is to circle the wagons around their employee. Case history of MCPS child predators are riddled with examples of MCPS knowing of complaints of predatory behavior before the police arrest for sexual abuse occurs.
The Employee Code of Conduct was written to protect children from abuse by people who work for MCPS. It’s negligent to knowingly not enforce it.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 13:05
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Who decided the age of consent and based on what?
Psychologists, health professionals, social workers? research studies? men?
The brain doesn’t fully develop until we are 25. You can not consent something you do not understand. Age is not enough to determine whether a person can consent.
16 year olds should not be tried as adult.
16 should be able to consent if there is no imbalance of power.
18 year olds should be able to alcohol low in alcohol content, 21 for liquor.
And we need to treat mental health problems better.
Imbalance of power as in one is male and the other one is female? In a society where there is imbalance between the genders? And where men write the laws and are in power?
I wonder how many moms are OK with their children having sex at 16 vs. how many fathers are OK with their children having sex at 16. How about your daughters having sex at 16 vs your sons having sex at 16?
I’m not okay with either boys or girls having sex at 16 but I know it’s developmentally normal. But my boys and girl had sex at 16., so did I.
I don’t think gender is an imbalance of power.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 12:59
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Who decided the age of consent and based on what?
Psychologists, health professionals, social workers? research studies? men?
The brain doesn’t fully develop until we are 25. You can not consent something you do not understand. Age is not enough to determine whether a person can consent.
16 year olds should not be tried as adult.
16 should be able to consent if there is no imbalance of power.
18 year olds should be able to alcohol low in alcohol content, 21 for liquor.
And we need to treat mental health problems better.
Imbalance of power as in one is male and the other one is female? In a society where there is imbalance between the genders? And where men write the laws and are in power?
I wonder how many moms are OK with their children having sex at 16 vs. how many fathers are OK with their children having sex at 16. How about your daughters having sex at 16 vs your sons having sex at 16?
Anonymous
08/28/2021 12:57
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Who decided the age of consent and based on what?
Psychologists, health professionals, social workers? research studies? men?
The brain doesn’t fully develop until we are 25. You can not consent something you do not understand. Age is not enough to determine whether a person can consent.
16 year olds should not be tried as adult.
16 should be able to consent if there is no imbalance of power.
18 year olds should be able to alcohol low in alcohol content, 21 for liquor.
And we need to treat mental health problems better.
Imbalance of power as in one is male and the other one is female? In a society where there is imbalance between the genders? And where men write the laws and are in power?
I wonder how many moms are OK with their children having sex at 16 vs. how many fathers are OK with their children having sex at 16. How about your daughters having sex at 16 vs your sons having sex at 16?
Anonymous
08/28/2021 12:32
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Who decided the age of consent and based on what?
Psychologists, health professionals, social workers? research studies? men?
The brain doesn’t fully develop until we are 25 and we are not allowed to drink alcohol until we are 21.
The current age of consent is outdated and arbitrary, it doesn’t consider personal characteristics.
You can not consent something you do not understand. Age is not enough to determine whether a person can consent.
There is no excuse for a 30/40 man to date young girls instead of women his age who can consent. The only people sexually attracted to minors are pedophiles.
We have to draw the line somewhere. If you want to raise the age of consent, then should we raise the age to vote also? How about the age to hold a full-time job or enlist in the military? Or to be charged as an adult for a crime? All those require the ability to make important decisions.
If 16 year olds can be charged as an adult for homicide, can't they also decide about having sex?
I am not understanding your point.
Are you saying that you agree that people should be able to consent at 16 because they can be tried as an adult for homicide at 16? While also agreeing that a person should not drink alcohol until they are 21?
Or are you saying that those who lobbied to raise the age of drinking alcohol were more effective? And we need to be as effective lobbying for measures to prevent sexual abuse?
Sexual abuse is also a mental health problem, so we need to do more for mental health.
We need to force congress to protect our children.
16 year olds should not be tried as adult.
16 should be able to consent if there is no imbalance of power.
18 year olds should be able to alcohol low in alcohol content, 21 for liquor.
And we need to treat mental health problems better.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 12:32
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Who decided the age of consent and based on what?
Psychologists, health professionals, social workers? research studies? men?
The brain doesn’t fully develop until we are 25 and we are not allowed to drink alcohol until we are 21.
The current age of consent is outdated and arbitrary, it doesn’t consider personal characteristics.
You can not consent something you do not understand. Age is not enough to determine whether a person can consent.
There is no excuse for a 30/40 man to date young girls instead of women his age who can consent. The only people sexually attracted to minors are pedophiles.
We have to draw the line somewhere. If you want to raise the age of consent, then should we raise the age to vote also? How about the age to hold a full-time job or enlist in the military? Or to be charged as an adult for a crime? All those require the ability to make important decisions.
If 16 year olds can be charged as an adult for homicide, can't they also decide about having sex?
I am not understanding your point.
Are you saying that you agree that people should be able to consent at 16 because they can be tried as an adult for homicide at 16? While also agreeing that a person should not drink alcohol until they are 21?
Or are you saying that those who lobbied to raise the age of drinking alcohol were more effective? And we need to be as effective lobbying for measures to prevent sexual abuse?
Sexual abuse is also a mental health problem, so we need to do more for mental health.
We need to force congress to protect our children.[/
16 year olds should not be tried as adult.
16 should be able to consent if there is no imbalance of power.
18 year olds should be able to alcohol low in alcohol content, 21 for liquor.
And we need to treat mental health problems better.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 12:11
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:He's the Head Coach and still on the Whitman website as of right now
Kirk Shipley
Kirk Shipley is an appropriate name for a dbag pedo. These losers are glorified Phys ed staff.
What does this even mean? He didn’t chose his name his family did.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 12:06
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:He's the Head Coach and still on the Whitman website as of right now
Kirk Shipley
Kirk Shipley is an appropriate name for a dbag pedo. These losers are glorified Phys ed staff.
Anonymous
08/28/2021 12:02
Subject: Re:Whitman Teacher and Crew Coach Arrested
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Who decided the age of consent and based on what?
Psychologists, health professionals, social workers? research studies? men?
The brain doesn’t fully develop until we are 25 and we are not allowed to drink alcohol until we are 21.
The current age of consent is outdated and arbitrary, it doesn’t consider personal characteristics.
You can not consent something you do not understand. Age is not enough to determine whether a person can consent.
There is no excuse for a 30/40 man to date young girls instead of women his age who can consent. The only people sexually attracted to minors are pedophiles.
We have to draw the line somewhere. If you want to raise the age of consent, then should we raise the age to vote also? How about the age to hold a full-time job or enlist in the military? Or to be charged as an adult for a crime? All those require the ability to make important decisions.
If 16 year olds can be charged as an adult for homicide, can't they also decide about having sex?
I am not understanding your point.
Are you saying that you agree that people should be able to consent at 16 because they can be tried as an adult for homicide at 16? While also agreeing that a person should not drink alcohol until they are 21?
Or are you saying that those who lobbied to raise the age of drinking alcohol were more effective? And we need to be as effective lobbying for measures to prevent sexual abuse?
Sexual abuse is also a mental health problem, so we need to do more for mental health.
We need to force congress to protect our children.