Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The dresses and parties were paid for by money earned via free human labor which happened because of white supremacy.
It’s not about “pretty dresses.” You know that. You can find other pretty dresses not from that era. It’s about celebrating a historical moment that embraced slavery.

I hope none of you have ever been to a TOGA party...

I haven’t. But your whataboutism proves the bankruptcy of your argument. Roman slavery was nothing whatsoever like the cruel monster that was invented in the Americas, and, as it ended roughly 2000 years ago, not a lot of people are around who are still experiencing the fallout from it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a descendant of poor white mountain trash subsistence farmers from southwestern Virginia who were forced to fight and die on behalf of rich southern plantation owners, I see absolutely nothing romantic or whimsical about dressing up like Scarlet O’Hara and sipping mint juleps under a magnolia tree.

My great great grandfathers and uncles bled and died because wealthy 1% southern elites wanted to continue to own other human beings. And my kin were drafted and marched off to die for them in places like Chancellorsville, Bull Run and Antietam.

So as a southerner, nah, I have no fondness for Antebellum culture LARPing.

Honestly, this is super dramatic considering that you DID NOT KNOW these people... honestly, do you really shed tears over your ancestors who died 100 years before you were born? If so, then I think you need to get some perspective. Truly.

(Also, kudos on painting your Confederate ancestors as the true victims 🙄)

You might want to re-read PP’s post a little slower.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Southern chauvinism blinds a lot of people. You guys are seriously obsessed with your alleged superiority.

Wasn’t it explained up the thread that black people had to sue to live in the same neighbourhood as the whites? So who is obsessed?

Thanks for demonstrating how white supremacists from the south are ignorant racist trash.

Disgusting - which is why we all hate you.

Anonymous wrote:The dresses and parties were paid for by money earned via free human labor which happened because of white supremacy.
It’s not about “pretty dresses.” You know that. You can find other pretty dresses not from that era. It’s about celebrating a historical moment that embraced slavery.

I hope none of you have ever been to a TOGA party...

Anonymous wrote:As a descendant of poor white mountain trash subsistence farmers from southwestern Virginia who were forced to fight and die on behalf of rich southern plantation owners, I see absolutely nothing romantic or whimsical about dressing up like Scarlet O’Hara and sipping mint juleps under a magnolia tree.

My great great grandfathers and uncles bled and died because wealthy 1% southern elites wanted to continue to own other human beings. And my kin were drafted and marched off to die for them in places like Chancellorsville, Bull Run and Antietam.

So as a southerner, nah, I have no fondness for Antebellum culture LARPing.

Honestly, this is super dramatic considering that you DID NOT KNOW these people... honestly, do you really shed tears over your ancestors who died 100 years before you were born? If so, then I think you need to get some perspective. Truly.

(Also, kudos on painting your Confederate ancestors as the true victims 🙄)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Find something better to celebrate than how great life was when you could own other people to do all the work. No one is jealous of this.

For instance, Derby Days. The same dresses and the same mint juleps but without the treason and slavery.

.You mean it's actually okay to make a drink associated with slavery? Thank you for kindness and understanding.

Mint juleps aren't really associated with slavery or the deep south. They are associated with the Kentucky Derby and Virginia though. That's kind of my point. There is no reason to hold an antebellum party other than to thumb your nose at people. Fancy clothes and mint juleps are a Kentucky Derby/Virginia Squire thing not an antebellum Gone With the Wind thing.

This is really funny considering that you noted yourself they are drunk at antebellum parties, Virginia and Kentucky are in the South, they originated in Virginia when it was the largest slave holding state, and predate the Kentucky Derby by about 100 years. Also, have you not heard of the trope of black slave bartenders making mint juleps? If people don't realize how mint juleps were intertwined with slavery, they really need to study more history.

No, you need to study more hostory. The trope is of a black person serving iced drinks, including leonade and iced tea. Juleps were invented as a medicinal concoction in the 17th century.p

Juleps too.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-lost-african-american-bartenders-who-created-the-cocktail

If there was any drink-mixing going on at those stately Virginia homes, it was black hands doing it. As the English traveler John Davis, who in 1800 spent some months teaching school on a Virginia plantation, put it, where others might set their hands to the plow, “the Virginian only inspects the work of his farm.” And in fact, “Old Dick,” one of the enslaved people on that plantation, told Davis that in the years before the Revolution one of his responsibilities had been “mixing and tasting” his young enslaver’s Juleps when he called for them first thing in the morning (“he was for a short life and a merry one,” as Dick put it).

I’d like to mention Uncle Nearest whiskey, the Black man who (without credit) basically invented the Tennessee whiskey business. I don’t drink and I’m not an investor, but I like seeing people get credit for the work they’ve done. https://unclenearest.com/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Southern chauvinism blinds a lot of people. You guys are seriously obsessed with your alleged superiority.

Wasn’t it explained up the thread that black people had to sue to live in the same neighbourhood as the whites? So who is obsessed?

Your reply is an excellent example of the southern chauvinism I was referencing.

DP. Your posts are excellent examples of your own blind spots.

Not really.

I really like Tressie McMillan Cottom. She’s a PhD, and I generally agree with a lot of her conclusions and how she gets there. But her Dolly Parton piece wanders over into southern chauvinism territory https://tressie.substack.com/p/the-dolly-moment, making the assumption that everyone views life through a southern lens. That’s southern chauvinism, as is the “Lots of jealous people here” comment above. As is the “... black people had to sue to live in the same neighbourhood as the whites? So who is obsessed?” comment. Black people had to sue to live in the same neighborhood as White people in a number of different places; it didn’t have to do with Black people wanting to live in the south because it’s so magical and awesome (though to be clear, they put in the lion’s share of work in building it and that’s where their United States family history is centered).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Find something better to celebrate than how great life was when you could own other people to do all the work. No one is jealous of this.

For instance, Derby Days. The same dresses and the same mint juleps but without the treason and slavery.

.You mean it's actually okay to make a drink associated with slavery? Thank you for kindness and understanding.

Mint juleps aren't really associated with slavery or the deep south. They are associated with the Kentucky Derby and Virginia though. That's kind of my point. There is no reason to hold an antebellum party other than to thumb your nose at people. Fancy clothes and mint juleps are a Kentucky Derby/Virginia Squire thing not an antebellum Gone With the Wind thing.

This is really funny considering that you noted yourself they are drunk at antebellum parties, Virginia and Kentucky are in the South, they originated in Virginia when it was the largest slave holding state, and predate the Kentucky Derby by about 100 years. Also, have you not heard of the trope of black slave bartenders making mint juleps? If people don't realize how mint juleps were intertwined with slavery, they really need to study more history.

No, you need to study more hostory. The trope is of a black person serving iced drinks, including leonade and iced tea. Juleps were invented as a medicinal concoction in the 17th century.p

Juleps too.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-lost-african-american-bartenders-who-created-the-cocktail

If there was any drink-mixing going on at those stately Virginia homes, it was black hands doing it. As the English traveler John Davis, who in 1800 spent some months teaching school on a Virginia plantation, put it, where others might set their hands to the plow, “the Virginian only inspects the work of his farm.” And in fact, “Old Dick,” one of the enslaved people on that plantation, told Davis that in the years before the Revolution one of his responsibilities had been “mixing and tasting” his young enslaver’s Juleps when he called for them first thing in the morning (“he was for a short life and a merry one,” as Dick put it).

Every drink and food item was made that way. Barbecue was created by slaves that were given the worst cuts of meat at the time. The Virginia squire silliness was a replication of the english country lord lifestyle, complete with serfs/slaves. That then evolved into the antebellum era tropes, which took things even further. History, around the world, is pretty much horrible to everyone except the 0.0001% if you keep going back. Therefore in practical terms a line needs to be drawn somewhere. I'm going with the Missouri Compromise. What are you going with?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Find something better to celebrate than how great life was when you could own other people to do all the work. No one is jealous of this.

For instance, Derby Days. The same dresses and the same mint juleps but without the treason and slavery.

.You mean it's actually okay to make a drink associated with slavery? Thank you for kindness and understanding.

Mint juleps aren't really associated with slavery or the deep south. They are associated with the Kentucky Derby and Virginia though. That's kind of my point. There is no reason to hold an antebellum party other than to thumb your nose at people. Fancy clothes and mint juleps are a Kentucky Derby/Virginia Squire thing not an antebellum Gone With the Wind thing.

This is really funny considering that you noted yourself they are drunk at antebellum parties, Virginia and Kentucky are in the South, they originated in Virginia when it was the largest slave holding state, and predate the Kentucky Derby by about 100 years. Also, have you not heard of the trope of black slave bartenders making mint juleps? If people don't realize how mint juleps were intertwined with slavery, they really need to study more history.

No, you need to study more hostory. The trope is of a black person serving iced drinks, including leonade and iced tea. Juleps were invented as a medicinal concoction in the 17th century.p

Juleps too.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-lost-african-american-bartenders-who-created-the-cocktail

If there was any drink-mixing going on at those stately Virginia homes, it was black hands doing it. As the English traveler John Davis, who in 1800 spent some months teaching school on a Virginia plantation, put it, where others might set their hands to the plow, “the Virginian only inspects the work of his farm.” And in fact, “Old Dick,” one of the enslaved people on that plantation, told Davis that in the years before the Revolution one of his responsibilities had been “mixing and tasting” his young enslaver’s Juleps when he called for them first thing in the morning (“he was for a short life and a merry one,” as Dick put it).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Find something better to celebrate than how great life was when you could own other people to do all the work. No one is jealous of this.

For instance, Derby Days. The same dresses and the same mint juleps but without the treason and slavery.

.You mean it's actually okay to make a drink associated with slavery? Thank you for kindness and understanding.

Mint juleps aren't really associated with slavery or the deep south. They are associated with the Kentucky Derby and Virginia though. That's kind of my point. There is no reason to hold an antebellum party other than to thumb your nose at people. Fancy clothes and mint juleps are a Kentucky Derby/Virginia Squire thing not an antebellum Gone With the Wind thing.

This is really funny considering that you noted yourself they are drunk at antebellum parties, Virginia and Kentucky are in the South, they originated in Virginia when it was the largest slave holding state, and predate the Kentucky Derby by about 100 years. Also, have you not heard of the trope of black slave bartenders making mint juleps? If people don't realize how mint juleps were intertwined with slavery, they really need to study more history.

No, you need to study more hostory. The trope is of a black person serving iced drinks, including leonade and iced tea. Juleps were invented as a medicinal concoction in the 17th century.p

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Southern chauvinism blinds a lot of people. You guys are seriously obsessed with your alleged superiority.

That happens when you’re on the losing side of not just a literal war, but a cultural one, as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Find something better to celebrate than how great life was when you could own other people to do all the work. No one is jealous of this.

For instance, Derby Days. The same dresses and the same mint juleps but without the treason and slavery.

.You mean it's actually okay to make a drink associated with slavery? Thank you for kindness and understanding.

Mint juleps aren't really associated with slavery or the deep south. They are associated with the Kentucky Derby and Virginia though. That's kind of my point. There is no reason to hold an antebellum party other than to thumb your nose at people. Fancy clothes and mint juleps are a Kentucky Derby/Virginia Squire thing not an antebellum Gone With the Wind thing.

This is really funny considering that you noted yourself they are drunk at antebellum parties, Virginia and Kentucky are in the South, they originated in Virginia when it was the largest slave holding state, and predate the Kentucky Derby by about 100 years. Also, have you not heard of the trope of black slave bartenders making mint juleps? If people don't realize how mint juleps were intertwined with slavery, they really need to study more history.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Find something better to celebrate than how great life was when you could own other people to do all the work. No one is jealous of this.

For instance, Derby Days. The same dresses and the same mint juleps but without the treason and slavery.

.You mean it's actually okay to make a drink associated with slavery? Thank you for kindness and understanding.

Mint juleps aren't really associated with slavery or the deep south. They are associated with the Kentucky Derby and Virginia though. That's kind of my point. There is no reason to hold an antebellum party other than to thumb your nose at people. Fancy clothes and mint juleps are a Kentucky Derby/Virginia Squire thing not an antebellum Gone With the Wind thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Find something better to celebrate than how great life was when you could own other people to do all the work. No one is jealous of this.

For instance, Derby Days. The same dresses and the same mint juleps but without the treason and slavery.

.You mean it's actually okay to make a drink associated with slavery? Thank you for kindness and understanding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The South has so many great virtues that deserve to be celebrated. Lots of jealous people here.

Southern chauvinism blinds a lot of people. You guys are seriously obsessed with your alleged superiority.

Wasn’t it explained up the thread that black people had to sue to live in the same neighbourhood as the whites? So who is obsessed?

Your reply is an excellent example of the southern chauvinism I was referencing.

DP. Your posts are excellent examples of your own blind spots.