FWIW His partner is supportive and has publicly said as much. Lovingly

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for the spouse when one decides to come out as transgender years after marriage and as a total surprise. Ask me how I know. My husband told me he feels like a woman and wishes he transitioned years ago. At this point in his life he doesn’t want to undergo any drastic changes but is currently in therapy dealing with how he’s feeling. I’m just waiting for the day he wants to officially become a she. I think it is such a betrayal to get married knowing you have all of these feelings which could blow up the marriage. I’m sorry I’m heterosexual and have zero attraction to women. It’s a horrible position to be put in as a spouse and I feel like they are often forgotten while everyone celebrates the courage of the transgendered individual coming out.

PP, I am very sorry. What a painful position you are in, on top of everything else that is going on is the world. Your husband is obviously in pain too. Perhaps the necessary attention we are now giving to trans people and trans issues will mean that going forward, people like your spouse will transition earlier in live, avoiding the distress and anger you both are experiencing right now. I wish you the best.

^life, not line.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing to me is that we only know what we know. Science has deemed XX as female, and XY as male, but we do know that even genetically, there are many intersex states. We don’t test people for their genetics unless there appears to be ambiguous genitalia or the like. We do know that hormone exposure in uterine can cause. We have no idea about if other genetic expressions can make a difference, because pretty much the only thing we base sex on is genitalia.

Science is science only as long as it’s known. That’s the cool thing. It’s constantly evolving and changing, and thinking we know now what we will know is just ignorant at best. So the people using “but, science” as an argument that trans people just have something wrong in their heads don’t understand science at all, IMHO. The world was flat until it wasn’t. Pluto was a planet until it wasn’t. You got sick from a miasma, until we knew about germs.

Not true. These days most women get routine genetic testing when they're pregnant, including to determine the chromosomal sex of the baby.

I got tested, and I don’t see my XX on there anywhere?

In any case, yes, fetuses are now being tested more. But that doesn’t discount that chromosomal sex may not be all there is to know about how people *feel* about their sex. It certainly doesn’t always explain ambiguous genetalia.

The biggest issue is that the gender construct has become so interwoven with sex that it’s hard to differentiate. You need only go visit the parenting board to see the difference in expectations from birth - eg. Boys are hellions, girls potty train early, etc. FFS, people are celebrating and planning their kids gender and how they will raise them before they’re even born, with blue and pink, pistol and pearl parties. Look at these threads - I don’t know if it’s this one or the job one, but where people are describing “butch” lesbians. Like really? So women are butch, but men are just men, and we wonder why people feel the need to express themselves as trans, one way or the other? They cannot remove themselves from being a woman and being butch, but can find their place as a normal man? Well heck, yeah, sign pretty much anyone up. No one honestly wants the hard road. They want to live their lives and to be happy. It may have to do with behaviour, genitalia, whatever... but why do you feel the need to assign them their happiness because of their genes?

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for the spouse when one decides to come out as transgender years after marriage and as a total surprise. Ask me how I know. My husband told me he feels like a woman and wishes he transitioned years ago. At this point in his life he doesn’t want to undergo any drastic changes but is currently in therapy dealing with how he’s feeling. I’m just waiting for the day he wants to officially become a she. I think it is such a betrayal to get married knowing you have all of these feelings which could blow up the marriage. I’m sorry I’m heterosexual and have zero attraction to women. It’s a horrible position to be put in as a spouse and I feel like they are often forgotten while everyone celebrates the courage of the transgendered individual coming out.

Well, Ellen came out as lesbian, and then identified as queer, and now as trans, and prefers he/they. Those were the *public* announcements.

If as a society, people could just accept whatever people are is what they are, there wouldn’t be any closeted people and heartbroken spouses. In general, people don’t just randomly “switch teams”, like the media makes it sound like. These are years and years of painful introspection.

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for the spouse when one decides to come out as transgender years after marriage and as a total surprise. Ask me how I know. My husband told me he feels like a woman and wishes he transitioned years ago. At this point in his life he doesn’t want to undergo any drastic changes but is currently in therapy dealing with how he’s feeling. I’m just waiting for the day he wants to officially become a she. I think it is such a betrayal to get married knowing you have all of these feelings which could blow up the marriage. I’m sorry I’m heterosexual and have zero attraction to women. It’s a horrible position to be put in as a spouse and I feel like they are often forgotten while everyone celebrates the courage of the transgendered individual coming out.

PP, I am very sorry. What a painful position you are in, on top of everything else that is going on is the world. Your husband is obviously in pain too. Perhaps the necessary attention we are now giving to trans people and trans issues will mean that going forward, people like your spouse will transition earlier in live, avoiding the distress and anger you both are experiencing right now. I wish you the best.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them, I guess. I suspect in 10 years he will transition back, or adopt some new identity, when the longed-for mental peace never materializes.

I hope she/he doesn't take hormones that will affect her ability to be pregnant in the meantime.

Why? Seriously, why on earth would Page's reproductive choices be any of your business or cause you a single moment of worry?

Because that is proving to be an issue for people who decide that they are a different gender, then after a few years change their mind, but find their body permanently changed and their fertility affected. Eliiot changes her/his mind often.

What an ignorant, ignorant comment.

I'd say it's bigoted but people will claim I'm being divisive again and for calling you bigoted when all you're doing is having a different viewpoint after all. Nope, nothing to see here. You're not trying to be demeaning at all by calling it a "change of mind." Nope, you're super respectful.

I feel sorry for the spouse when one decides to come out as transgender years after marriage and as a total surprise. Ask me how I know. My husband told me he feels like a woman and wishes he transitioned years ago. At this point in his life he doesn’t want to undergo any drastic changes but is currently in therapy dealing with how he’s feeling. I’m just waiting for the day he wants to officially become a she. I think it is such a betrayal to get married knowing you have all of these feelings which could blow up the marriage. I’m sorry I’m heterosexual and have zero attraction to women. It’s a horrible position to be put in as a spouse and I feel like they are often forgotten while everyone celebrates the courage of the transgendered individual coming out.

Anonymous wrote:The thing to me is that we only know what we know. Science has deemed XX as female, and XY as male, but we do know that even genetically, there are many intersex states. We don’t test people for their genetics unless there appears to be ambiguous genitalia or the like. We do know that hormone exposure in uterine can cause. We have no idea about if other genetic expressions can make a difference, because pretty much the only thing we base sex on is genitalia.

Science is science only as long as it’s known. That’s the cool thing. It’s constantly evolving and changing, and thinking we know now what we will know is just ignorant at best. So the people using “but, science” as an argument that trans people just have something wrong in their heads don’t understand science at all, IMHO. The world was flat until it wasn’t. Pluto was a planet until it wasn’t. You got sick from a miasma, until we knew about germs.

Not true. These days most women get routine genetic testing when they're pregnant, including to determine the chromosomal sex of the baby.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are conflating gender and sex. Sex is not fluid - it’s biological and unless you are a hermaphrodite, or have a chromosomal abnormality, you are either male or female.

Sex is not fluid, it's only A or B... well unless you're C or D or E. But still, only ever A or B.

See how even in your own sentence you're contradicting yourself?

Sex is complicated, but nowhere near the level of gender. True hermaphrodites are rare, as are people with Klinefelter (XXY) and Swyer (XY female) syndromes. Part of the human makeup for sure, but rare, and having one of these syndromes does not necessarily mean a person born XY will “feel” anything other than female. It might even be a surprise to them to find out at puberty that they lack a uterus. So much of gender is taught, not innate. Trans people are not doing anyone a service by pretending that there are things like female brains and male brains. We are all snowflakes and it’s all ok.

This. And gender norms that influence - or deprive people - of living as their true selves and realizing their true sexual identity are very real. But sexual identity and sex are different. I can be a biological woman but from a sexual identity and gender perspective identify as man. We can normalize and support that. But that is not the same thing as saying “sex is fluid”. Because no, really it’s not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them, I guess. I suspect in 10 years he will transition back, or adopt some new identity, when the longed-for mental peace never materializes.

I hope she/he doesn't take hormones that will affect her ability to be pregnant in the meantime.

Why? Seriously, why on earth would Page's reproductive choices be any of your business or cause you a single moment of worry?

Because that is proving to be an issue for people who decide that they are a different gender, then after a few years change their mind, but find their body permanently changed and their fertility affected. Eliiot changes her/his mind often.

The thing to me is that we only know what we know. Science has deemed XX as female, and XY as male, but we do know that even genetically, there are many intersex states. We don’t test people for their genetics unless there appears to be ambiguous genitalia or the like. We do know that hormone exposure in uterine can cause. We have no idea about if other genetic expressions can make a difference, because pretty much the only thing we base sex on is genitalia.

Science is science only as long as it’s known. That’s the cool thing. It’s constantly evolving and changing, and thinking we know now what we will know is just ignorant at best. So the people using “but, science” as an argument that trans people just have something wrong in their heads don’t understand science at all, IMHO. The world was flat until it wasn’t. Pluto was a planet until it wasn’t. You got sick from a miasma, until we knew about germs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are conflating gender and sex. Sex is not fluid - it’s biological and unless you are a hermaphrodite, or have a chromosomal abnormality, you are either male or female.

Sex is not fluid, it's only A or B... well unless you're C or D or E. But still, only ever A or B.

See how even in your own sentence you're contradicting yourself?

Sex is complicated, but nowhere near the level of gender. True hermaphrodites are rare, as are people with Klinefelter (XXY) and Swyer (XY female) syndromes. Part of the human makeup for sure, but rare, and having one of these syndromes does not necessarily mean a person born XY will “feel” anything other than female. It might even be a surprise to them to find out at puberty that they lack a uterus. So much of gender is taught, not innate. Trans people are not doing anyone a service by pretending that there are things like female brains and male brains. We are all snowflakes and it’s all ok.

Anonymous wrote:I’m happy he is being true to himself but I’m so tired of people feeling the need to tell the world all their business. Just be who you are. Why do you need so much attention? Me me me me me me me me me

If you are a public figure, as Page is, I'm not sure you have much of a choice.

I’m happy he is being true to himself but I’m so tired of people feeling the need to tell the world all their business. Just be who you are. Why do you need so much attention? Me me me me me me me me me

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them, I guess. I suspect in 10 years he will transition back, or adopt some new identity, when the longed-for mental peace never materializes.

I hope she/he doesn't take hormones that will affect her ability to be pregnant in the meantime.

Why? Seriously, why on earth would Page's reproductive choices be any of your business or cause you a single moment of worry?