Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Michigan is very overrated....and has convinced East Coast parents (whose kids can't gain admission to competitive SLACs or Ivies) that the University of Ann Arbor State University is more than it is...and worthy of out-of-state tuition.

But is Michigan really all that popular with the dc metro crowd? Most of its matriculants from the east coast are from the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast. Still, it is very impressive that the school gets so many full pay OOS attendees. They are paying essentially the equivalent of private school fees. They must be doing something right.

Large and visible alumni network promotes the brand well. The "we're more than State U." machine feeds on itself.

FYI: the CEW salaries are limited to those of students who received financial aid. Make of that what you will.

Also, before you take their NPV seriously, you need to carefully read the notes about their data and methodology. That, plus many of the comments stated above should provide a lot of warranted caution.

What do you make of this? From a NPV perspective, GWU hangs with the University of Chicago!!! WRONG.

University of Chicago $1,420,000
George Washington University $1,418,000

Also, a number of specialty schools have a higher NPV than Harvard. Better apply now!! WRONG.

If you filter the CEW’s database for 4-year schools/not-for-profit/public schools and remove the specialized (maritime/technology/health) schools, here is the ranking of the top 10:

1. UC Berkeley $1,383,000
2. University of Michigan – Ann Arbor $1,364,000
3. University of Maryland – College Park $1,330,000
4. Virginia Tech - $1,313,000
5. UCLA - $1,300,000
6. University of Illinois – Urbana-Champaign $1,299,000
7. Binghamton University $1,298,000
8. University of Virginia – Main Campus $1,291,000
9. University of Connecticut – Stamford $1,288,800
10. University of Connecticut – Waterbury $1,283,000

Looks like you pick an in-state school and go with it.

Bowdoin has an NPV of $1,350,000. Amherst’s is $1,343,000. That’s similar to UVA’s. Better not send your kids to those crazy liberal arts schools!

Check out this link: https://www.economicmodeling.com/how-your-school-affects-where-you-live/?utm_content=78945508&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin

This company used LinkedIn profiles to identify where a school’s graduates go. They found that graduates of state schools tend to live in-state. However, graduates of elite (private) schools tend to go to major economic hubs with a preference for the one nearest the college. So, Georgetown graduates disproportionately stay in DC with a secondary preference for NYC. Stanford graduates prefer San Francisco with a secondary preference for NYC. Meanwhile, UVA graduates spread out across VA. For those who return to NOVA, that is equivalent to DC, but there are many graduates who return home to modest economic opportunities.

Does that mean a UVA education is overrated. No, but it does say something about the ambition of a portion of its student body.

In the end, a college is a good deal if it prepares you for and provides you the opportunities you want for the least amount of money. If you are full pay and your goal is to be a high school English teacher, it doesn’t make economic sense to go to Harvard. However, if your goal is to be a Supreme Court justice, you need to go to an undergraduate program that can get you into Harvard or Yale law school. In that case, getting an English degree from Harvard might make career sense, but not economic sense (relative to other law options, justices don’t get paid that much). Note that quality of education, career goals, and economics are not always correlated.

UVA

NPV is also working with averages. One’s personal NPV for a school depends a lot on how much YOU pay for the education. The value proposition for Georgetown compared to UVA depends a lot on how much financial aid you receive, what you major in, and where you work.

The NPVs don’t take into account cost of living. Yes, a school can post high earnings if a majority of its graduates are tech, finance, consulting drones in high-cost cities, but that doesn’t tell you much about the actual education or the graduate’s quality of life.

So, here’s the opening paragraph from the CEW report on NPV:

“Did you know that in the first year after graduation you can make more money with an associate’s degree in nursing from Santa Rosa Junior College in California than with a graduate degree from some programs at Harvard University?“

If you think it’s helpful to compare a nursing degree (which is a professional degree) to an English degree, these numbers make sense. However, keep in mind, you’re comparing apples and oranges.

Georgetown overrated; William and Mary underrated.

The notion of rating a university by NPV is highly flawed. Check out the “salaries after college” thread to understand.

My kid went to NYU and, while I know lots of people think it's overrated, she really got a great education there. Her major was in the arts, but I was impressed with the general ed courses which really stretched her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University of VA

UVA = overrated

please, explain why UVA is overrated?

I didn't write "UVA = overrated", but I would say UVA can be an obsession with people on this board, yet attending UVA doesn't appear to confer significant lifetime advantages over schools that aren't an obsession.

I agree. UVA is objectively a very good school, so saying it's overrated isn't a reflection of the actual academics. It's more the single minded obsession of a certain segment of the NOVA population that doesn't want to pay for a private school but still wants to brag about edging out other people for a coveted spot. This particular group has decided that UVA is the only acceptable in-state option for them to pursue.

Take a look at the 7 schools below . Would you say school "?" is more like schools ABC, or schools XYZ?

NPV or Net Present Value is the return (increased income minus costs) of attending each school. Over/Under is the delta between expected early career earnings and actual earning adjusted for the majors of graduates (e.g. majors like engineers are expected to earn earn more). Analysis is from Center for Education and the Workforce.

School NPV Over/Under
A $1,967,000 $20,200
B $1,754,000 $14,900
C $1,607,000 $8,300

X $1,330,000 ($500)
Y $1,313,000 $1,000
Z $1,255,000 $1,200

? $1,291,000 ($2,400)

For those that want to know:
A = Harvard
B = Duke
C = Cornell

X = University of Maryland College Park
Y = Virginia Tech
Z = George Mason

? = University of Virginia

So UVA is touted as near Ivy, but UVA NPV is nearly $500K lower than the average of Harvard, Duke, and Cornell, and value add for early career income is nearly $17K less per year. UVA NPV is also slightly lower than the average of UMD, VT, and GMU, and value add is nearly $3K less per year for early career income.

Anonymous wrote:Michigan is very overrated....and has convinced East Coast parents (whose kids can't gain admission to competitive SLACs or Ivies) that the University of Ann Arbor State University is more than it is...and worthy of out-of-state tuition.

Yeah, all those people just tricked. Glad that PP can see the light. Did you take the red pill instead of the maize and blue pill?