Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:54
Subject: Re:Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:38
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous wrote:Meh. They can all argue all they want but without archaeological evidence or contemporary accounts of Jesus they are all just theories. We only have second-hand accounts. No actual proof.
Boy did you just get dragged.
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:35
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Meh. They can all argue all they want but without archaeological evidence or contemporary accounts of Jesus they are all just theories. We only have second-hand accounts. No actual proof.
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:34
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
https://ehrmanblog.org/fuller-reply-to-richard-carrier/
Bart don’t like Richard!
Fuller Reply to Richard Carrier
Richard Carrier is one of the new breed of mythicists. He is trained in ancient history and classics, with a PhD from Columbia University – an impressive credential. In my book Did Jesus Exist I speak of him as a smart scholar with bona fide credentials. I do, of course, heartily disagree with him on issues relating to the historical Jesus, but I have tried to take his views seriously and to give him the respect he deserves.
Carrier, as many of you know, has written a scathing review of Did Jesus Exist on his Freethought Blog. He indicates that my book is “full of errors,” that it “misinforms more than it informs” that it provides “false information” that it is “worse than bad” and that “it officially sucks.” The attacks are sustained throughout his lengthy post, and they often become personal. He indicates that “Ehrman doesn’t actually know what he is talking about,” he claims that I speak with “absurd” hyperbole, that my argument “makes [me] look irresponsible,” that I am guilty of “sloppy work,” that I “misrepresent” my opponents and “misinform the public,” that what I write is “crap,” that I am guilty of “arrogantly dogmatic and irresponsible thinking,” that I am “incompetent,” make “hack” mistakes, and do not “act like a real scholar.
Why?
Bart Ehrman Just Can’t Do Truth or Logic
BY RICHARD CARRIER ON APRIL 25, 201657 COMMENTS
Bart Ehrman was again asked what evidence there is that Jesus existed this February 18, 2016, at Fresno City College. See the video here (he begins his answer at timestamp 23:18). First he says this:
I don’t think there is any doubt that Jesus existed. There are a couple of scholars who’ve argued he didn’t exist. There are a lot of voices out there saying that he didn’t exist. But they’re not by scholars who are actually trained in any historical disciplines. There are voices on the internet. But there are voices on the internet for all sorts of things. Scholars who study this stuff really, there isn’t any, it’s not a question that’s debated among my colleagues. It is not debated. Because the evidence is so overwhelming.
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10134
It’s like shooting atheist fish in barrel.
Bart don’t like Richard!
Fuller Reply to Richard Carrier
Richard Carrier is one of the new breed of mythicists. He is trained in ancient history and classics, with a PhD from Columbia University – an impressive credential. In my book Did Jesus Exist I speak of him as a smart scholar with bona fide credentials. I do, of course, heartily disagree with him on issues relating to the historical Jesus, but I have tried to take his views seriously and to give him the respect he deserves.
Carrier, as many of you know, has written a scathing review of Did Jesus Exist on his Freethought Blog. He indicates that my book is “full of errors,” that it “misinforms more than it informs” that it provides “false information” that it is “worse than bad” and that “it officially sucks.” The attacks are sustained throughout his lengthy post, and they often become personal. He indicates that “Ehrman doesn’t actually know what he is talking about,” he claims that I speak with “absurd” hyperbole, that my argument “makes [me] look irresponsible,” that I am guilty of “sloppy work,” that I “misrepresent” my opponents and “misinform the public,” that what I write is “crap,” that I am guilty of “arrogantly dogmatic and irresponsible thinking,” that I am “incompetent,” make “hack” mistakes, and do not “act like a real scholar.
Why?
Bart Ehrman Just Can’t Do Truth or Logic
BY RICHARD CARRIER ON APRIL 25, 201657 COMMENTS
Bart Ehrman was again asked what evidence there is that Jesus existed this February 18, 2016, at Fresno City College. See the video here (he begins his answer at timestamp 23:18). First he says this:
I don’t think there is any doubt that Jesus existed. There are a couple of scholars who’ve argued he didn’t exist. There are a lot of voices out there saying that he didn’t exist. But they’re not by scholars who are actually trained in any historical disciplines. There are voices on the internet. But there are voices on the internet for all sorts of things. Scholars who study this stuff really, there isn’t any, it’s not a question that’s debated among my colleagues. It is not debated. Because the evidence is so overwhelming.
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10134
It’s like shooting atheist fish in barrel.
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:30
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Atheist activist and Christ mythicist Richard Carrier criticized her use of the inscriptions at Luxor to make the claim that the story of Jesus' birth was inspired by the Luxor story of the birth of Horus.[22] Theologian and Christ-mythicist Robert M. Price also criticized Murdock's first book,[23] while promoting her Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled in The Pre-Nicene New Testament: Fifty-Four Formative Texts,[24] and writing the foreword to her Who Was Jesus?: Fingerprints of the Christ.[6]
Her work has also been criticized by New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman, who, in his Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth calls Murdock's The Christ Conspiracy "the breathless conspirator's dream". He says "all of Acharya's major points are in fact wrong" and her book "is filled with so many factual errors and outlandish assertions that it is hard to believe the author is serious". Taking her as representative of some other writers about the Christ myth theory, he continues "Mythicists of this ilk should not be surprised that their views are not taken seriously by real scholars, mentioned by experts in the field, or even read by them".[25]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S
Both Bart and Carrier criticize calendar lady you buffoon.
Her work has also been criticized by New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman, who, in his Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth calls Murdock's The Christ Conspiracy "the breathless conspirator's dream". He says "all of Acharya's major points are in fact wrong" and her book "is filled with so many factual errors and outlandish assertions that it is hard to believe the author is serious". Taking her as representative of some other writers about the Christ myth theory, he continues "Mythicists of this ilk should not be surprised that their views are not taken seriously by real scholars, mentioned by experts in the field, or even read by them".[25]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S
Both Bart and Carrier criticize calendar lady you buffoon.
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:25
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:ad ho·mi·nem
/?ad ?häm?n?m/
adjective
1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
You know they are right. Or you would refute the claims with alternate evidence.
Carrier's academic credentials are impeccable. Of course he is criticized by theists!
Your side loses every day in the information age. And will continue to. This is why.
What I have posted are criticisms of these people by their PEERS!
Carrier criticized calendar lady!
Atheists don’t even accept calendar lady: read her wiki page. Read her RECEPTION. That means what other people in her “field” think about her!
Baptist comparative religion scholar Clinton Bennett compares her views to those of radical freethinker Robert Taylor (nicknamed "the Devil's chaplain"), secularist MP and Christ-mythicist John M. Robertson, and American mythographer Joseph Campbell.[20] Butler University religion professor James F. McGrath describes her viewpoint as one that "once had some currency among scholars" in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but was subsequently abandoned.[21]
Atheist activist and Christ mythicist Richard Carrier criticized her use of the inscriptions at Luxor to make the claim that the story of Jesus' birth was inspired by the Luxor story of the birth of Horus.[22] Theologian and Christ-mythicist Robert M. Price also criticized Murdock's first book,[23] while promoting her Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled in The Pre-Nicene New Testament: Fifty-Four Formative Texts,[24] and writing the foreword to her Who Was Jesus?: Fingerprints of the Christ.[6]
Her work has also been criticized by New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman, who, in his Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth calls Murdock's The Christ Conspiracy "the breathless conspirator's dream". He says "all of Acharya's major points are in fact wrong" and her book "is filled with so many factual errors and outlandish assertions that it is hard to believe the author is serious". Taking her as representative of some other writers about the Christ myth theory, he continues "Mythicists of this ilk should not be surprised that their views are not taken seriously by real scholars, mentioned by experts in the field, or even read by them".[25]
Emeritus Professor of New Testament Languages and Literature at the University of Nottingham Maurice Casey criticized her work for "her anti-Christian outlook, a lack of any proper sense of reality, failure to give adequate references, inability to interpret primary sources correctly, and dependence on inaccurate out-of-date secondary sources rather than primary evidence."[26
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S
These are ad hom attacks? No!
These are ad hominem attacks. Yes. By definition.
Address the points themselves.
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:24
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Richard Cevantis Carrier (born December 1, 1969) is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger.
His recent books arguing against the historicity of Jesus have established him as a leading supporter of the fringe[4] Christ myth theory,[5] which claims that neither the historical Jesus nor the biblical Jesus existed. Carrier asserts that in the context of his Bayesian methodology, the ahistoricity of Jesus[ii] and his origin as a mythical deity are "true" (i.e. the "most probable" Bayesian conclusion),[6] arguing that the probability of Jesus' existence is somewhere in the range of 1/3 to 1/12000, depending on the estimates used for the computation.[7] Nearly all contemporary scholars of ancient history[8] and biblical scholarship have maintained that a historical Jesus did indeed exist.[9][10]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier
Richard Carrier’s wiki page states that NEARLY ALL CONTEMPORARY SCHOLARS OF ANCIENT HISTORY maintain a historical Jesus existed. Why is that on his page?
Because it is a fact, and one not disputed in this thread. Most do, including Bart Ehrmann, probably the leading biblical scholar working today, and an atheist. Read his Misquoting Jesus, and you will see how your bible fails time and time again against the slightest textual criticism.
We are concerned with the supernatural claims of Jesus, and has been mentioned many times here. Lets deal with those facts, rather than distraction through ad hominem attacks. You won't, though, because you can't.
ps - You know you can add anything you want to a wikipedia page, right? And that Carrier probably did not create or edit his?
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:23
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous wrote:ad ho·mi·nem
/?ad ?häm?n?m/
adjective
1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
You know they are right. Or you would refute the claims with alternate evidence.
Carrier's academic credentials are impeccable. Of course he is criticized by theists!
Your side loses every day in the information age. And will continue to. This is why.
What I have posted are criticisms of these people by their PEERS!
Carrier criticized calendar lady!
Atheists don’t even accept calendar lady: read her wiki page. Read her RECEPTION. That means what other people in her “field” think about her!
Baptist comparative religion scholar Clinton Bennett compares her views to those of radical freethinker Robert Taylor (nicknamed "the Devil's chaplain"), secularist MP and Christ-mythicist John M. Robertson, and American mythographer Joseph Campbell.[20] Butler University religion professor James F. McGrath describes her viewpoint as one that "once had some currency among scholars" in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but was subsequently abandoned.[21]
Atheist activist and Christ mythicist Richard Carrier criticized her use of the inscriptions at Luxor to make the claim that the story of Jesus' birth was inspired by the Luxor story of the birth of Horus.[22] Theologian and Christ-mythicist Robert M. Price also criticized Murdock's first book,[23] while promoting her Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled in The Pre-Nicene New Testament: Fifty-Four Formative Texts,[24] and writing the foreword to her Who Was Jesus?: Fingerprints of the Christ.[6]
Her work has also been criticized by New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman, who, in his Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth calls Murdock's The Christ Conspiracy "the breathless conspirator's dream". He says "all of Acharya's major points are in fact wrong" and her book "is filled with so many factual errors and outlandish assertions that it is hard to believe the author is serious". Taking her as representative of some other writers about the Christ myth theory, he continues "Mythicists of this ilk should not be surprised that their views are not taken seriously by real scholars, mentioned by experts in the field, or even read by them".[25]
Emeritus Professor of New Testament Languages and Literature at the University of Nottingham Maurice Casey criticized her work for "her anti-Christian outlook, a lack of any proper sense of reality, failure to give adequate references, inability to interpret primary sources correctly, and dependence on inaccurate out-of-date secondary sources rather than primary evidence."[26
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S
These are ad hom attacks? No!
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:19
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Richard Cevantis Carrier (born December 1, 1969) is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger.
His recent books arguing against the historicity of Jesus have established him as a leading supporter of the fringe[4] Christ myth theory,[5] which claims that neither the historical Jesus nor the biblical Jesus existed. Carrier asserts that in the context of his Bayesian methodology,[i] the ahistoricity of Jesus[ii] and his origin as a mythical deity are "true" (i.e. the "most probable" Bayesian conclusion),[6] arguing that the probability of Jesus' existence is somewhere in the range of 1/3 to 1/12000, depending on the estimates used for the computation.[7] Nearly all contemporary scholars of ancient history[8] and biblical scholarship have maintained that a historical Jesus did indeed exist.[9][10]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier
Richard Carrier’s wiki page states that NEARLY ALL CONTEMPORARY SCHOLARS OF ANCIENT HISTORY maintain a historical Jesus existed. Why is that on his page?
What % of the “contemporary scholars of ancient history” are Christians? What % of those are the hard-core evangelical types?
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:17
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous wrote:The dumbest atheist in existence is getting her nosed smeared with facts and knowledge and is steadfastly remaining ignorant. Hahahaha’
At least that atheist doesn’t believe a ridiculous myth like Jesus.
Men created these myths to control the stupid masses. Looks like it worked.
Hahahaha.
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:11
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
ad ho·mi·nem
/?ad ?häm?n?m/
adjective
1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
You know they are right. Or you would refute the claims with alternate evidence.
Carrier's academic credentials are impeccable. Of course he is criticized by theists!
Your side loses every day in the information age. And will continue to. This is why.
/?ad ?häm?n?m/
adjective
1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
You know they are right. Or you would refute the claims with alternate evidence.
Carrier's academic credentials are impeccable. Of course he is criticized by theists!
Your side loses every day in the information age. And will continue to. This is why.
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:11
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
The dumbest atheist in existence is getting her nosed smeared with facts and knowledge and is steadfastly remaining ignorant. Hahahaha’
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:10
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous wrote:Richard Cevantis Carrier (born December 1, 1969) is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger.
His recent books arguing against the historicity of Jesus have established him as a leading supporter of the fringe[4] Christ myth theory,[5] which claims that neither the historical Jesus nor the biblical Jesus existed. Carrier asserts that in the context of his Bayesian methodology,[i] the ahistoricity of Jesus[ii] and his origin as a mythical deity are "true" (i.e. the "most probable" Bayesian conclusion),[6] arguing that the probability of Jesus' existence is somewhere in the range of 1/3 to 1/12000, depending on the estimates used for the computation.[7] Nearly all contemporary scholars of ancient history[8] and biblical scholarship have maintained that a historical Jesus did indeed exist.[9][10]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier
Richard Carrier’s wiki page states that NEARLY ALL CONTEMPORARY SCHOLARS OF ANCIENT HISTORY maintain a historical Jesus existed. Why is that on his page?
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:07
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Still no proof.
Yes, there were early Christians. And there are Christians today. That still doesn’t mean there was a man named Jesus.
Virtually all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed.[5][6][7][note 1] Reconstructions of the historical Jesus are based on the Pauline epistles and the Gospels, while several non-Biblical sources also bear witness to the historical existence of Jesus. Since the 18th century, three separate scholarly quests for the historical Jesus have taken place, each with distinct characteristics and developing new and different research criteria.[9][10]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
VIRTUALLY ALL (real/actual/credible) SCHOLARS OF ANTIQUITY agree JESUS existed.
Ok. They have theories. And?
Still no proof. No archaeological artifacts. No contemporary evidence.
Maybe he lived. Maybe he didn’t. We don’t know.
Anonymous
07/15/2019 16:06
Subject: Is a good atheist better then a bad christian?
Nearly all contemporary scholars of ancient history[8] and biblical scholarship have maintained that a historical Jesus did indeed exist.[9][10]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier