Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:53
Subject: Re:Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My take on OP's post had more to do with what people choose given what the means they have than what their means are. TV and bar cart vs piano and books--exactly. The piano may me a 1900 upright instead of a Steinway baby grand, and the books may be from a thrift store but carefully selected.
OP here. Yes, this was what I was trying to explore. Should have known the DCUM crowd would devolve into arguing about private schools and tax brackets.
Agree on the distinctions. Here’s another: when you go to Portugal, is that to hang out on the beaches or to visit the museums and sip sherry?
I hate to say this, though, but I think these are distinctions between MC and UMC. Old money where there’s still lots of money have a family grand piano, but nobody can play it well.
I don’t understand the Portugal part. Most people hit the beaches and museums n
Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:49
Subject: Re:Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My take on OP's post had more to do with what people choose given what the means they have than what their means are. TV and bar cart vs piano and books--exactly. The piano may me a 1900 upright instead of a Steinway baby grand, and the books may be from a thrift store but carefully selected.
OP here. Yes, this was what I was trying to explore. Should have known the DCUM crowd would devolve into arguing about private schools and tax brackets.
Agree on the distinctions. Here’s another: when you go to Portugal, is that to hang out on the beaches or to visit the museums and sip sherry?
I hate to say this, though, but I think these are distinctions between MC and UMC. Old money where there’s still lots of money have a family grand piano, but nobody can play it well.
So the really wealthy/old money go to the beaches in Portugal and the UMC go to the museums?
Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:48
Subject: Re:Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Don't overthink it.
- very top neighborhood (class don't want to live anywhere near non-elites)
- solid college credentials
- all kids in top private k-12
Any bozo with lots of money can buy these. That’s not what’s meant by “class,” which is more a certain set of values, choices and comportment.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:40
Subject: Re:Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My take on OP's post had more to do with what people choose given what the means they have than what their means are. TV and bar cart vs piano and books--exactly. The piano may me a 1900 upright instead of a Steinway baby grand, and the books may be from a thrift store but carefully selected.
OP here. Yes, this was what I was trying to explore. Should have known the DCUM crowd would devolve into arguing about private schools and tax brackets.
Agree on the distinctions. Here’s another: when you go to Portugal, is that to hang out on the beaches or to visit the museums and sip sherry?
I hate to say this, though, but I think these are distinctions between MC and UMC. Old money where there’s still lots of money have a family grand piano, but nobody can play it well.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:34
Subject: Subtle signs of class
"Class" as in "classiness" not "economic class" can be defined by the contrast of two 30-year-old single straight men that I know with similar early-professional incomes (about $75-80K)
The first, let's call him Joe, has an apartment with real furniture, knows how to cook meals that don't come out of a box, takes a woman on dates that are interesting but not necessarily expensive (free outdoor concerts, museums, etc), organizes his clothes, writes emails in compete sentences, irons his clothes, uses real cologne and sparingly, washes his car and cleans the inside of it, has a good relationship with his mother and calls her regularly.
The second, let's call him Mike. His dwelling is furnished with a mattress on the floor in front of a TV/video game console. He usually orders takeout or eats boxed macaroni. He does his dishes once a week. He still uses "u" and "r" instead of "you" and "are" and his emails lack punctuation. His car is full of empty food containers and other trash. His idea of a date is drinks at a bar and nothing more creative, and he still wears Axe body spray. He never calls his mother, even though he lives in her basement.
Class is Joe, obviously. Unfortunately, I know wayyyy too many perfectly gainfully employed, able-bodied Mikes.
The first, let's call him Joe, has an apartment with real furniture, knows how to cook meals that don't come out of a box, takes a woman on dates that are interesting but not necessarily expensive (free outdoor concerts, museums, etc), organizes his clothes, writes emails in compete sentences, irons his clothes, uses real cologne and sparingly, washes his car and cleans the inside of it, has a good relationship with his mother and calls her regularly.
The second, let's call him Mike. His dwelling is furnished with a mattress on the floor in front of a TV/video game console. He usually orders takeout or eats boxed macaroni. He does his dishes once a week. He still uses "u" and "r" instead of "you" and "are" and his emails lack punctuation. His car is full of empty food containers and other trash. His idea of a date is drinks at a bar and nothing more creative, and he still wears Axe body spray. He never calls his mother, even though he lives in her basement.
Class is Joe, obviously. Unfortunately, I know wayyyy too many perfectly gainfully employed, able-bodied Mikes.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:29
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.
Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.
The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.
The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.
The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.
So I think I'm MC ($250K HHI in the DC area). My entire friend circle is in a similar income bracket. The only thing I relate to is the Pottery Barn thing.I love Pottery Barn. And gray. All the gray everything. To me what you describe sounds like WC...
PP, I think maybe you're UMC? I'm definitely MC at just over half your income in DC, and this was so on point it cracked me up. I'm more adventurous (and WC-sympathizing as an angry millennial) than my parents and I don't like Pottery Barn style, but the bits on insecurity, fashion, and education have some serious truth!
I am working class, but through unusual circumstances I met and had a long romantic relationship in high school with a rich (truly rich) boy, which is how I know about rich people. I now have an UMC job and income, and socialize primarily with UMC and (for other reasons of circumstance) rich people.
Sorry, I thought you were responding to me (the one writing full profiles of each class). Please disregard.
No, I was responding to the MC $250k poster. Your profiles are delightful though!
Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:28
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think address is the most telling part of class. Old cars old clothes ah shucks attitude— it all ends with the address in the top zip codes of beaches, mountains, historic districts, and urban enclaves like McLean.
Have you been to McLean?
Yes I know there is some middle class housing in McLean. There are also many many homes whose value exceeds $5M. And many more exceeding $10M. So yes rich enclave.
But rich is not the point. McLean is full of showy new money.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:17
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.
Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.
The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.
The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.
The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.
So I think I'm MC ($250K HHI in the DC area). My entire friend circle is in a similar income bracket. The only thing I relate to is the Pottery Barn thing.
PP, I think maybe you're UMC? I'm definitely MC at just over half your income in DC, and this was so on point it cracked me up. I'm more adventurous (and WC-sympathizing as an angry millennial) than my parents and I don't like Pottery Barn style, but the bits on insecurity, fashion, and education have some serious truth!
I am working class, but through unusual circumstances I met and had a long romantic relationship in high school with a rich (truly rich) boy, which is how I know about rich people. I now have an UMC job and income, and socialize primarily with UMC and (for other reasons of circumstance) rich people.
Sorry, I thought you were responding to me (the one writing full profiles of each class). Please disregard.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 17:02
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.
Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.
The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.
The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.
The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.
So I think I'm MC ($250K HHI in the DC area). My entire friend circle is in a similar income bracket. The only thing I relate to is the Pottery Barn thing.
PP, I think maybe you're UMC? I'm definitely MC at just over half your income in DC, and this was so on point it cracked me up. I'm more adventurous (and WC-sympathizing as an angry millennial) than my parents and I don't like Pottery Barn style, but the bits on insecurity, fashion, and education have some serious truth!
I am working class, but through unusual circumstances I met and had a long romantic relationship in high school with a rich (truly rich) boy, which is how I know about rich people. I now have an UMC job and income, and socialize primarily with UMC and (for other reasons of circumstance) rich people.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 16:52
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Classy, upper crust names such as Brynleigh, Taislee, or Mackenzeiygh for girls.
Those names are trashy. Middle class or less.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 16:51
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Myself and Zillow visited.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 16:50
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think address is the most telling part of class. Old cars old clothes ah shucks attitude— it all ends with the address in the top zip codes of beaches, mountains, historic districts, and urban enclaves like McLean.
Have you been to McLean?
Yes I know there is some middle class housing in McLean. There are also many many homes whose value exceeds $5M. And many more exceeding $10M. So yes rich enclave.
Anonymous
04/16/2019 16:03
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As requested:
The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.
The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.
The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.
UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.
You are GOOD. You got all of them.
This is funny! Apart from the UMC man's hobby (my DH doesn't really have one of these), this describes my family very accurately. We're actually immigrants but it still works!
Anonymous
04/16/2019 15:57
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:I think address is the most telling part of class. Old cars old clothes ah shucks attitude— it all ends with the address in the top zip codes of beaches, mountains, historic districts, and urban enclaves like McLean.
Have you been to McLean?
Anonymous
04/16/2019 15:55
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Classy, upper crust names such as Brynleigh, Taislee, or Mackenzeiygh for girls.